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Kerry 1, Bush 0

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Kerry 1, Bush 0

First debate results

from JoeUser Forums

With the first debate over, I think it was pretty clear that Kerry gained more than Bush.  Neither scored any knock out blows on the other and the # of memorable sound bites is going to be minimal. But overall, Kerry did what he needed to do.

Expect to see the polls narrow considerably.

politics
27,341 views 101 replies
Reply #76 from JoeUser Forums Top

My point was that it surprised me, not that debates are normally scored that way, but that you score them that way. Do you really think it matters if the President leans against the podium? Why?


Actually, yes, I think it matters a great deal. If you have read many experts, they universally agree that the majority of our communication is nonverbal; what a person conveys with body language says far more than what they communicate verbally.

Reply #77 from JoeUser Forums Top

Something I haven't heard anyone address...a key turning point was towards the beginning of the debate, when Lehrer asked Bush if electing Kerry would lead to an increase in terror.


Bush then did what I call "pulling a Clinton". He gave an eloquent, well worded 2 minute response...WITHOUT ANSWERING THE QUESTION. Clinton amazed me as a man who had the skill of being able to say nothing in more words and still make you feel good about it than anyone I had ever viewed before; Bush has that same ability. I guess it's what makes a good career politician.

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Reply #78 from JoeUser Forums Top

helix...


You are a sick, sick man...I like that in a person!

Reply #79 from PolMach Forums Top
Kerry politely wiped up the floor with W. Frankly I was embarrassed when I learned that folks from other nations watched our petulant President t Bush bumble, stutter, and stumble his way through a painful 90 minutes. It's a sad day when the President can't even talk for a full 2 minutes on a war he started. The media must've really worked to find a couple coherent soundbites.

Kerry was clear, concise, firm and most importantly, Presidential.

And if you want to talk about flip-flopping, try these on for size:

Against the dept. of homeland security--then for it
Against the 911 commission--then for it.
We're gonna catch Bin Laden dead or Alive- -Divert 200,000 troops to Iraq before we catch Bin Laden (remember him, the guy who attacked us?)
Mission Accomplished? Well, a couple nights ago, all we heard about was what "Hard Work" it is.
The Iraqis will welcome us as liberators-- Iraq is full of evildoers who hate democracy
Saddam Hussein poses a direct and imminent threat to the security of the United States--Saddam Hussein had the CAPACITY to make weapons of mass destruction (of course, with some fertilizer and petrol, so do I)
America should have a "humble" foreign policy (remember that one from 2000?)--spurn our allies and go it alone.

I could go on, but I'll leave you with my favorite Bush flip flop:
After 911, Bushy told us that it would be important for us all to make sacrifices for the greater good of the country and I was with him. Now, several years later I wonder what sacrifices the wealthiest Americans have made after virtually none of their loved ones are in Iraq and Bush gave them the biggest tax cut in the history of the nation.


Reply #80 from PolMach Forums Top
Kerry was clear, concise, firm and most importantly, Presidential.


Don't forget boring, good lord I expect it from a President but a Senator should know better.

- GX
Reply #81 from JoeUser Forums Top
The US needs to pass a "World Test" for us to use force.
No, he mentioned the global test as a metaphor for measuring the seriousness of a given threat. 
Reply #82 from JoeUser Forums Top
what a person conveys with body language says far more than what they communicate verbally.
Are you talking about sex here?
Frankly if what happened last night could excite you enough to change your vote, then a warm breeze would be as good for you as viagra...
Now that's funny!
Reply #83 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think that Kerry out performed Bush in evry manner. The argument is in my Blog. All we cuold sdee was Bush grimacing each time Kerry brought out the Iraq War. Bush says that Kerry voted in favor of the War and is therefore inconsistent. The fact of the mat
Reply #84 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think that Kerry out performed Bush in evry manner. The argument is in my Blog. All we cuold sdee was Bush grimacing each time Kerry brought out the Iraq War. Bush says that Kerry voted in favor of the War and is therefore inconsistent. The fact of the mat
Reply #85 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think that Kerry out performed Bush in evry manner. The argument is in my Blog. All we cuold sdee was Bush grimacing each time Kerry brought out the Iraq War. Bush says that Kerry voted in favor of the War and is therefore inconsistent. The fact of the mat
Reply #86 from JoeUser Forums Top
2 cents, here.

I just don't believe, come Nov 2, that the electorate will allow looking & sounding good, in any or all of the debates, to run interference for Kerry's lack of principles. I still believe the election has almost nothing to do with Kerry and everything to do with Bush - it is Bush's election to lose. The short-sighted left could care less who their candidate is, just so long as Bush loses. They'll worry about Kerry if & after he gets elected.

And the frenzy about the perceived results of Debate 1 in the Kerry camp was a little too over-the-top - to listen to their spinners afterward, you'd think Kerry'd delivered a knockout blow and the election was over. You can put a fresh turd in a fancy package, but it's still going to stink and I have my doubts that Kerry will pass the smell test at crunch time. If I'm wrong, so be it. And I will support Kerry, should he be elected, as long as he prosecutes the war in Iraq to a stable conclusion as he has promised, though I will remain opposed to just about everything else he proposes to do.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #87 from PolMach Forums Top
i don't think that Kerry intended to have the "world test" used when we are truly in danger, just in situations like Iraq. We could have gotten rid of Hussein with a lot less bloodshed had we had international support.
Reply #88 from PolMach Forums Top
i don't think that Kerry intended to have the "world test" used when we are truly in danger, just in situations like Iraq. We could have gotten rid of Hussein with a lot less bloodshed had we had international support.


Who did we leave out from international support?

China, Russia, Germany and France? Who else is a major player that got left out in the support? Seriously can't you think of something better than that?

- GX
Reply #89 from JoeUser Forums Top
Who did we leave out from international support?

China, Russia, Germany and France? Who else is a major player that got left out in the support? Seriously can't you think of something better than that?

- GX


Are you saying that leaving out China russia germany and france is no big deal?
Reply #90 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Are you saying that leaving out China russia germany and france is no big deal? "


I suggest you go and look how big of a part they played in Afghanistan, supposedly the "model" coalition. Take a look at how much they had to do with the original Gulf War. To be quite frank, we don't get much out of it when they DO help, so really it isn't a big deal when they don't.
Reply #91 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #92 By: sandy2 - 10/3/2004 7:03:28 PM
Who did we leave out from international support?

China, Russia, Germany and France? Who else is a major player that got left out in the support? Seriously can't you think of something better than that?

- GX


Are you saying that leaving out China russia germany and france is no big deal?


That is not what he said. He was asking who was left out. The 4 countries had a question mark behind them making that a question, not a declarative sentence.
Reply #92 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've been interested to note some of the aftermath of the debate. In listening to some talk radio and watching some of the television interviews, Kerry's various surrogates and supporters have taken the perceived "trouncing" of Bush (their word) as a green light to resurrect all the discredited lies and propaganda from months ago. It was pretty damn silly; suddenly the "tax breaks for the top 1%" (nevermind the top 10% pay nearly 80% of all tax revenues), the "failure to fix the economy" (never mind the unemployment rate is 5.4%, same as it was when Clinton was presiding over a "great" economy; nevermind the impact of the tech bubble bursting, 9/11, the previously unsustainable job-creation rate of the 90's, the corporate and mutual fund fiascos, etc.), etc., etc., are suddenly rolling off the tongues of Kerryites ad nauseum.

The polls seem to confirm what Drag has predicted - a modest bump for Kerry closing the gap again, but no wholesale switching. I still think it is way too early to misunderestimate Bush.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #93 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think it interesting so many say they support Bush because he is a strong leader. I agree he is strong to the point he turns people off. It has happened in Congress and with many world leaders. I do not favor giving up any of our soverenty to the UN or anyone else. However, we live in a very interrelated world and we need to communicate and cooperate with others. Bush is not good at that. His way of operation is that he will listen and then you do it his way.

Being a strong leader going on the right path is different from a strong leader going on the worng path. The economy, tax cuts, trade, Stem Cell Resesrch, use of our military, especially the over use of the Guard and Reserve, his insistance on drilling in Alaska, his utter disreguard to balence the budget and the Iraq War are a few examples where we are being lead by a strong President but in the wrong direction.
Reply #94 from JoeUser Forums Top
INow Former Amb. Bremer is telling us that we did not have enough troops in Iraq and that he told this to the Bush administration. H e was told not to worry about it. Today, the CIA released a report requested the VP that undercuts the claim by Bush and Cheney that Iraq and al-Quadia had ANY connection. So much for the Bush claim that Iraq is part of the War on Terrorism.
Reply #95 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #97 By: COL Gene - 10/5/2004 11:55:21 AM
INow Former Amb. Bremer is telling us that we did not have enough troops in Iraq and that he told this to the Bush administration. H e was told not to worry about it. Today, the CIA released a report requested the VP that undercuts the claim by Bush and Cheney that Iraq and al-Quadia had ANY connection. So much for the Bush claim that Iraq is part of the War on Terrorism.


Do you have a link to that effect?
Reply #97 from PolMach Forums Top
Yeah, my favorite was when he interrupted to ask for a 30 second rebuttal and then totally blanked out looking into the camera. Just what we need commanding the nations troops; someone who totally blanks out under pressure!
Reply #98 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think only when you vote is when it counts the most. To me the last 3 Debates was like a building with no corners. But that's just my opinion. I will agree that Kerry did better. Just don't tell that to the other side. visit my site and give me some feedback. www.cafepress.com/dancinbear
Reply #99 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #100 By: The Trellinator - 10/5/2004 10:31:40 PM
Yeah, my favorite was when he interrupted to ask for a 30 second rebuttal and then totally blanked out looking into the camera. Just what we need commanding the nations troops; someone who totally blanks out under pressure


I'd like to see just how well *you* handle the same pressure!