We Ought to Show Greater Support for Israel

from PolMach Forums
In the war against terror, I feel that Bush has negleted terrorists second in their deadliness only to Al-Qaeda. These are the Palestinian terrorists fighting against Israel. Israel is our closest ally and it is our duty to help defend it. Though we do give Israel significant amounts of money, which makes me proud of the US, we do not give it enough military or diplomatic support. For example, our embassy is located in Tel Aviv, because we do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Often times, the questionsthat come up are moral ones: Does Israel deserve our aid? Is Israel a moral country that excersizes restraint? Is Israel truly unbiased toward the Palestinians, and does that affect our policy? Really and truly, I do not see how our why Israel should be unbiased. Its existence is threatened. When terrorists attacked us on September 11, we fought a merciless war against them. The war on Afghanistan was every bit justified. And our existence wasn't even under threat.

With regard to the other two questions. Without a doubth, Israel excersizes great restraint when fighting against the terrorist and thus deserves our support. In all the history of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, there have been three Israeli acts of terror against Palestinians or Arabs, while there have been hundreds of terrorist attacks against Israelis, and thousands of attempted attacks. The only Israeli terrorist not to die during the attack was arrested by Israel and was sentenced to life in prison by Israel. If Israel had the death penalty, he would have probably recieved it.

As another testament to this, Israel's supreme court rerouted the ever famous wall of security to minimize harms to West-Bank Arabs. Though I don't like the wall at all, Israel has shown that, without a doubt, its interest is not to torment Arabs, but to secure itself.

We must support such an enlightened democracy in the face of destruction.
politics
8,732 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from PolMach Forums Top
The United States gives more foreign aid around the world than any other nation. The nation that receives the largest amount of U.S. foreign aid is Israel. The U.S. essentially gives every Israeli citizen nearly 1000 dollars each year.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
It would seem like someone will disagree wiht you, politically active, and say Israel is an American liability with all the aid we give Israel and the diplomatic support, as flimsy as it may be sometimes. But the real liability for America is terrorism. When terrorists attack Israel and blow up their buses and resturaunts they have the same motive of the September 11th hijackers did against America; that is to destroy a democracy and bring jihad to another part of the world. Terrorists all over the world have the same ideals and it is true that if we wan't to fight terrorism properly we have to help Israel fight it as well with all out support. Their war is ours.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from PolMach Forums Top
I agree with necessity of support for Israel. Israel has faced terrorism for 2 decades of Infatawas, attacks, and bombings. Israel now is being asked by Putium to help counteract the terrorism she's receiving from the Chechins. These terrorists have one thing on their minds. The Homocidal urge to murder as many civilians as possible. Do not forget the primary goal of terrorist is to cause as many causualities as possible. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East as is the only country there that has joint defense projects. The Patriot Missle system was co-developed in Israel and the technology was being used to defend soilders during the Iraq conflict.
Reply #4 from PolMach Forums Top
The fact is that as we get deeper and deeper into the Iraq situation, we NEED Israel's experience and intelligence.

In other areas as well. Domestic security, for example. Airlines have been the most progressive to adapt Israeli security measures - other genres will follow.

The tactics of terrorists and how to counter them are a CONSTANT conversation between the US and Israeli military. We are learning a lot from them.

Innovations too. In addition to the Patriot anti-missile missile, there have been recent successes by Israeli military scientists shooting down missiles with lasers. Chem/Bio attack protection is also cutting edge over there.

However.

As much as we need them and reap the benefits our dollar support yields, I do not think any more support than we already give them is terribly wise. What would it accomplish? Do we want American GIs patroling the West Bank? I think not. There is already a high level of intel sharing (ours technical and theirs human). And monitarily - there is no need for more. It buys nothing that isn't already bought.

So the only thing left is geo-political support. I think that it is quite possible that the Israelis do not want our political support right now. What good would it do anyway? I don't see any. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to the hypothetical benefit of increased support of any kind.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
The U.S. essentially gives every Israeli citizen nearly 1000 dollars each year.


Not so at all! Most of the money received from the United States is used for defense. Instead of using it for the betterment of its citizens lives, both Jewish and Palestinian, it is destroying lives on both sides.
Its time either for the money to stop coming here, or for it to be put to a more positive use.
Reply #6 from PolMach Forums Top
Reply #5 By: Citizen Manopeace - 9/20/2004 5:41:55 AM
The U.S. essentially gives every Israeli citizen nearly 1000 dollars each year.


Not so at all! Most of the money received from the United States is used for defense. Instead of using it for the betterment of its citizens lives, both Jewish and Palestinian, it is destroying lives on both sides.
Its time either for the money to stop coming here, or for it to be put to a more positive use.


While I still question the usefulness of more help in any form, I have to point out that without survival, nothing else matters.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have to point out that without survival, nothing else matters.


Peace is the road to survival...not war.
Reply #8 from PolMach Forums Top
Peace is the road to survival...not war.


Good. I agree. Remember when Clinton wanted to get Arafat and Barak to Camp David or wherever for peace talks and the Israelis said that they would be happy to come AND make consessions as long as there was a mere 2 weeks without a terrorist event, but the Palestinians just couldn't manage to stop the attacks for two weeks? Remember that? The Israelis eventually had to capitulate the point and negotiate before peace.

I'm sorry but when the bombings stop for a while, borders open and jobs are created. Building happens and travel restrictions are lifted.

So is anyone looking at the money we give Arafat? Yes - it is not given to the PLO, it is directly given to Arafat (or was up through last time I checked (for decades through 2003). If he did not use it to fund bombers do you think Israel would still be sending jets and gunships to shoot up the Palestinians?

Peace is desired, I believe that. But would you have them just allow unlimited terrorism without response? Actually that was tried. Admittedly not for long periods - getting your people blown up gets old fast. It didn't work. There must be security for there to be peace.

98% of Arafat's demands for the West Bank was not acceptable for him. He claimed that the remaining 2% was a deal breaker and the fighting continued. But that is mainly to cover himself because he does not control all the factions. He CANNOT - nor can any one Palestinian leader - agree to peace because competing factions will prove him wrong by ognoring the peace.

Israel must defend itself for itself, and by itself. And when it becomes impossible for terrorists to continue their assaults, then there will be peace. And that is accomplished through military superiority.

But it wont last. The next step will be a return to the international wars. I'm thinking Osrael/Lebanon (as a Syrian proxy) while Iran dances around and makes rude gestures and tests its nukes. Give it a few years - it'll happen.

None of her neighbors officially recognize Israel's existance. Instead Organizations and governments in the region openly admit their goal of driving her into the sea and removing the Israeli people from the earth. And bla bla bla.

Still I question: What benefit for the US to do anytthing more than it is already doing?
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
None of her neighbors officially recognize Israel's existance.


We have very good relations with both Egypt and Jordan..two of our closest neighbours.
As far as the Palestinians not following Arafats orders...it is obvious that he is not their chosen leader and has no control over them. True peace negotiations with true leaders that represent both sides is the answer, not a puppet who speaks for no one to no one.
Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top
true leaders that represent both sides is the answe


both? as if there were only 2? You know better. There are bunches of them and their power relys on a state of conflict, just as Arafat's does. Peace is not in their personal interest(s).

And as for Egypt and Jordan... (Egypt, by the way has a military also funded by the US) Whom do you suppose they would support in a war with Israel? Regardless of who the other was, I think they would support the other. Don't you agree?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Regardless of who the other was, I think they would support the other. Don't you agree?


Politics makes for strange bedfellows....as it stands now, neither Egypt or Jordan are crazy about Arafat, as a person or as a so-called leader.
But, its hard to say whoses side they would be on, on one side, it would be in their best interests to support Israel, on the other, to go to war against another Arab nation would not looked upon with any good thoughts from the rest of the Arab world.
I hope and pray it will never come to a full scale war.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
But, its hard to say whoses side they would be on,


Yeah, because Egypt has never gone to war with Israel. And as for good relations with Egypt--the constent flow of arms from Egyptian territory to Gaza has hardly been slowed at all.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Israel needs to not be our closest ally. The use us. Of what value is their military to us? Maybe the palestinians wouldn't be terrorising innocent citizens if Israel simply stopped retaliating and rather focussed on preventing terrorism, not killing innocent people in revenge.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Although I have admired the spirit of the Israeli people's I believe that supporting their government at the current rate needs to stop.
The Israelis have withheld Intelligence, bombed our naval vessels, shot at our Marines, and we still give them 3+ Billion dollars a year.
No thanks. Let's try a little quid pro quo!

This blog is begging for a larger handout, so that the radical settlers can build more apartments on the west bank.
Israel can no more state that they are "Just" when they are willing to put Ariel Sharon in office after the Shatilla and Sabra camp
massacres.
Reply #15 from PolMach Forums Top
Israel needs to not be our closest ally. The use us. Of what value is their military to us? Maybe the palestinians wouldn't be terrorising innocent citizens if Israel simply stopped retaliating and rather focussed on preventing terrorism, not killing innocent people in revenge.


Another gem. Keep 'em comin' Sandy.

Now - Geezer, on the other hand, brings up some more debatable points. I can only imagine that we are as close to them as we are because it is in our interest to be so. And don't drag out "Political Support of the Jewish vote" because Jews have traditionally been overwhelmingly Democratic and in numbers are very few. Moreover, they reside in Democratic strongholds like NY, CT, MA, FL, and CA - so their votes are all but irrelevant. Not to mention, that support could be gained with a bit of rhetoric and a token contribution.

No - that is not it. We get a lot more bang for that $3 BIL than we do for any other $3 BIL spent outside the US. Exactly what is going on behind the scenes we can only speculate.

Here is one theory that I like: Perhaps it is the same old Cold War paradigm where they are our guinnea pigs.
ie:
Q: Hmm- you think this Missile Defense will work?
A: Gee. I duno. Lets see how the Israelis do with it. If it fails - not our problem and we spend nothing. If it works, then bully for us and it's a $500 BIL defense contract for US forces.
Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top
they are willing to put Ariel Sharon in office after the Shatilla and Sabra camp
massacres.


So by that logic what do you say about Kerry's admited war time attrocities? Kerry=Sharon ?
Reply #17 from PolMach Forums Top
The road to war is paved with money.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey Wingman,
just because I don't automatically fall into line on Israel's side does not, I repeat NOT make me a Kerry backer.
I think he is a typical Masshole politician, so I dislike him intensely. My vote is going elsewhere in November. For my views on terrorism see this. Link
Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
Manopeace: When I said that the U.S. essentially gives 1000 dollars to each Israeli, I meant that if you break it down, thats how much money per citizen the U.S. gives Israel per year.