Livin' in Liberalville

Reply #1 September 16, 2004 11:52 PM from PolMach Forums Top

Mmm, don't give up the ghost right yet, most of the highly trumpeted polls touting Bush pulling ahead have underepresented democrats (one included 38% dems, 45% rep, and the rest indies) another that has made it's rounds in such rags as the local Kansas City Star have included "likely voters" only, which means about nill. Grassroots campaigns following on the heels of the Dean campaign are mobilizing actual voters unlike ever before, at least here in Missouri. Interesting, the way the mainstream media is framing this...

Reply #2 September 17, 2004 1:13 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #1 By: Deference - 9/16/2004 11:52:11 PM Mmm, don't give up the ghost right yet, most of the highly trumpeted polls touting Bush pulling ahead have underepresented democrats (one included 38% dems, 45% rep, and the rest indies) another that has made it's rounds in such rags as the local Kansas City Star have included "likely voters" only, which means about nill. Grassroots campaigns following on the heels of the Dean campaign are mobilizing actual voters unlike ever before, at least here in Missouri. Interesting, the way the mainstream media is framing this...

Want to tell me again that Bush is trailing in the polls?????? And please read the whole thing "before" you comment.

Politics


Poll Finds Bush Lead Surging Among Likely Voters

2 minutes ago Add Politics to My Yahoo!



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) has surged to a 13-point lead over Democratic challenger John Kerry (news - web sites) among likely voters, according to a new USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll released on Friday.


Reuters
Slideshow: Elections




The newspaper said Bush's 55 percent to 42 percent for the Massachusetts senator in the poll conducted Sept. 13-15 was the first statistically significant edge either candidate has held this year.


Among registered voters, Bush held an eight-point lead over Kerry, 52 percent to 44 percent, according to the poll based on interviews with 1,022 people with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.


"It doesn't look like the new consultants and strategies of attacks are the right ones" for Kerry, Bush campaign adviser Matthew Dowd told USA Today.


Kerry adviser Mike McCurry told the newspaper there had been some "bouncing around in the numbers" but the campaign sensed it was moving back to a much closer race since Bush received a boost following the Republican convention that ended on Sept. 2.


Two national polls on Thursday found equal levels of support for the White House contenders as Kerry rebounded, putting the race essentially even again, as it was for months.


The Pew Research Center sampled voters in two waves. The first poll of likely voters, taken Sept. 8-10, found Bush ahead by 16 percentage points. The second poll on Sept. 11-14, which had a 3.5 percentage point margin of error, found Bush with a statistically insignificant one-point lead. Among registered voters, it was deadlocked.


A Harris Interactive poll, which was conducted Sept. 9-13 and had a three-point margin of error, found Kerry with a one-point lead.


A Harris poll in June gave Bush a 10 percentage point lead.

Reply #3 September 17, 2004 1:30 AM from PolMach Forums Top

Try visiting conservativeville like Mississippi where the N word is commonly used by white people cause that's "the way God intended it to be."

Reply #4 September 17, 2004 1:51 AM from PolMach Forums Top

Also try to visit George Washingtonville where partisan politics is taken out to pasture in a field and where avoiding excessive party spirt only refers to not getting completely plastered at a party.

George Washingtonville has also open a new clinic to deal with partisan people who come into the town seeking help, because we care.

Also accepting all religions, all races, and all countries, but not accepting political parties, because we care.

Of course before you say something in reference to God and me, I am a Gnostic and Occultist, former Catholic because you can't pick the religion you get born with (On Occultist I won't delve deeper but if you really want to know I will let you know some day when I do an article on it).

Reply #5 September 17, 2004 8:37 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

ShoZan - I want to go there and live in George Washingtonville! I grew up in Utah, a state that has probably never given any of its electoral votes to a Democrat (I don't really know that, I just know that every year since I was old enough to pay attention they always go Republican), then moved to NC which is actually pretty Red as well. However, I happened to end up in this little bubble of ultra left-wing thought. It has been an interesting experience as someone who tends to sit pretty midline and has been an unaffiliated registered voter for years now.

Partisan politics make me sick. And livin' in Liberalville hasn't helped one bit.

Reply #6 September 17, 2004 10:28 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

Try visiting conservativeville like Mississippi where the N word is commonly used by white people cause that's "the way God intended it to be."

I remember growing up in the 60s and 70s and seeing the riots that occurred because of forced bussing. Was that in Mississippi? Nope. Alabama? Nope. Georgia? Nope. Hmmmm,..........where was that again.

Oh.! Now I remember. It was in Boston, the most conservative city in the nation!

Imagine that.

Reply #7 September 17, 2004 10:59 AM from PolMach Forums Top

Yep, as soon as I make a statement about something, it's bound and determined to be wrong the next day! According to many polls today, Bush has got a lead. I don't think that will change the outcome of the actual end - vote, however.

Karl Rove is counting on a large Christian conservative vote coupled with gun owners who think Kerry will do something to their guns, and . . . um...well, drmiller and bloggists like him. Not much of a base, if you ask me. Look at it this way, Christians, and to narrow it down further, hardcore conservative Christians don't account for much of the population. These voters may be mobilized by the abortion and gay issues with George W standing for the federal marriage amendment (not going to actually happen, but he'll get some mileage out of the lip service) and against partial birth abortion ban (struck down three times by a mostly conservative court, wtf?). Then we have gun owners who recently saw the assault weapons ban expire. Does anyone truly believe they will all only vote Bush with the pictures of Kerry hunting in abundence? Kerry has only mouthed the Democratic party line on guns, I don't believe hunters will be dashing to the polls to save their gun rights this year.

On the other hand, you have the gay rights folk, the african american vote, and the majority of the population, the female vote mostly going to Kerry. This is just because these groups are most apt to vote democrat and because Bush has been most harmful to these groups during his tenure as president. These groups will bite him in the tookus come election time.

Then consider this, how many people have YOU met that have been groaning about how they should have voted Bush? That's right, no typo present, how many people have you run in to that have said, "Man, I sure am glad I voted Bush, that guy was right!". I don't know about you guys, but I've been doing door-to-door voter registration and canvassing in two towns here in MO, one is Jefferson City and the other a smaller town of about 17,000, Bush has actually lost Republicans / Conservatives, myself being one of them. Kerry isn't losing any Democrats, no matter how bad a candidate he might be 'cause the faith is so strong that anyone would be a better or even less dangerous pick then Bush.

So, polls or no polls, only in superficial terms is Bush winning, the pro-Bush edge has no legs, and come election time, we'll see how things pan out. Why does Bush want to limit the number of debates anyway.....?

Reply #8 September 17, 2004 11:32 AM from PolMach Forums Top

Though it seems little more than half are just voting for Kerry because he is not Bush so what is up with that?

Last time I checked there was more than two parties, but both the DNC and the RNC don't want you to believe that, because most voting for Kerry is because he is not Bush and they don't like him either. Hell if all that misvoting could be redirected a third party candidate could once again become President.

Of course the polls that will mean the most besides Nov 2 are the polls right after the debates which until they are canceled there are FOUR debates scheduled. So far not one debate has been canceled. Also Badrnik is not getting a fair representation when Ralph Nader is given out as a poll choice, come on Nader is not the Green Party Candidate.

Reply #9 September 17, 2004 11:46 AM from PolMach Forums Top

Though it seems little more than half are just voting for Kerry because he is not Bush so what is up with that?

I think you know, Sho, that the dem. candidate is most likely to have the best shot at defeating the incumbent, so most voters are simply going with the best bet. I know Ralph hasn't made it on the ballot in many states so that already cripples him. Badnarik, I'm certain, is in no better shape.

Reply #10 September 17, 2004 12:10 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Interesting analysis there Deference. Thanks for sharing. It will be interesting to see how right that proves to be in a couple of months.

Reply #11 September 17, 2004 12:12 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

That last reply was directed at your previous post, not this most recent one.

Reply #12 September 17, 2004 12:41 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #7 By: Deference - 9/17/2004 11:00:41 AM Yep, as soon as I make a statement about something, it's bound and determined to be wrong the next day! According to many polls today, Bush has got a lead. I don't think that will change the outcome of the actual end - vote, however. Karl Rove is counting on a large Christian conservative vote coupled with gun owners who think Kerry will do something to their guns, and . . . um...well, drmiller and bloggists like him.

No, I don't think. I KNOW SO! His voting record says it all! He has voted against firearms EVERY time it has come up!

Reply #13 September 17, 2004 12:44 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Then we have gun owners who recently saw the assault weapons ban expire. Does anyone truly believe they will all only vote Bush with the pictures of Kerry hunting in abundence? Kerry has only mouthed the Democratic party line on guns, I don't believe hunters will be dashing to the polls to save their gun rights this year.

And gun owners AIN'T dumb! We know WHAT his record is. Those pictures are just so much political spin that it ain't funny!

Reply #14 September 17, 2004 2:42 PM from PolMach Forums Top

Those pictures are just so much political spin that it ain't funny!

Funny you would say that, the pictures I was referring to were ones printed up from the internet that some Bushites here on campus have posted on their doors and windows. The caption on them reads something to the effect of, rifle $x, hunting vest $x, etc., flip flopping on gun rights: Priceless. This is a pro-Bush campaign slamming Kerry. I like how that actually backfires a bit, by showing Kerry as not as rabidly ant-gun as some paint him to be.

I was talking with the president of the college republicans, he said that the main issues this year would be abortion and gun rights, I didn't have the heart to tell him that was totally untrue. I'm not saying those issues aren't a top priority to some, but I think the vast majority of people are concerned about 1.)Economy / jobs 2.)Healthcare 3.)Iraq / Terrorism 4.)A soluble Social Security. Too bad Kerry hasn't grabbed a bull horn and rammed his message down everybodies throats the way some have.

Reply #15 September 17, 2004 2:46 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I have to be honest. At this point in time I really don't care what the Presidential candidate has to say about abortion or gun rights. I want to hear about things that will affect much more of us living in this country, and neither of those fit that bill.

Looking forward to the debates!

Reply #16 September 17, 2004 3:02 PM from PolMach Forums Top

At school I am surrounded by more extreme liberals than ever before in my life. The hatred expressed toward Bush on a daily basis

do you go to college or are what grade are you in?

Because at my school it's the exact oppisite.

Reply #17 September 17, 2004 3:05 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I am a third year medical student at Duke University. I don't know if it is the Duke blue, the Carolina blue or what, but blue is definately the favorite color here!

Reply #18 September 17, 2004 3:12 PM from PolMach Forums Top

There is some hardcore "liberal-itis" in most halls of academia and the higher up in prestige one goes, the worse it gets. This is detailed in a book called, "Fall of the Ivory Tower". It was a while ago when I read it, so I would have to hunt for the author's name, but he was the president of a campus at one point and had a huge amount to say about this.

I remember in the '90's being a conservative in high school and trying to talk to my peers about how screwed up some Clinton policy was, but I was only derided and given the usual names. When I started college, one wanted to hide if they were a self - labeled conservative or Republican as one could be mocked off campus. I understand and sympathize with you BlueDev. I hate the fact that I have to vote Kerry this year, but Bush policy is sinking us.

Reply #19 September 17, 2004 4:17 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I hate the fact that I have to vote Kerry this year, but Bush policy is sinking us.

A sentiment that my wife and myself have to echo, painfully.

Reply #20 September 17, 2004 4:37 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #14 By: Deference - 9/17/2004 2:42:45 PM Those pictures are just so much political spin that it ain't funny! Funny you would say that, the pictures I was referring to were ones printed up from the internet that some Bushites here on campus have posted on their doors and windows. The caption on them reads something to the effect of, rifle $x, hunting vest $x, etc., flip flopping on gun rights: Priceless. This is a pro-Bush campaign slamming Kerry. I like how that actually backfires a bit, by showing Kerry as not as rabidly ant-gun as some paint him to be. I was talking with the president of the college republicans, he said that the main issues this year would be abortion and gun rights, I didn't have the heart to tell him that was totally untrue. I'm not saying those issues aren't a top priority to some, but I think the vast majority of people are concerned about 1.)Economy / jobs 2.)Healthcare 3.)Iraq / Terrorism 4.)A soluble Social Security. Too bad Kerry hasn't grabbed a bull horn and rammed his message down everybodies throats the way some have.

I hate to CLUE you ut he's right on! The main issues ARE gun control and abortion! And those pictures that were being circulated? Maybe you should go back and ask why they were doing it! They were doing it to show Kerry's flip-flopping! He's shown waving a Remington 1187 shotgtun, which under the bills he "was" sponsoring would have been illegal!

Reply #21 September 17, 2004 5:50 PM from PolMach Forums Top

The main issues ARE gun control and abortion!

I wholeheartedly disagree. The standard I was going by were the issues the U.S. populace at large might feel are the most important. Sorry, if gun rights and abortion were the hot topics this year, that would most probably be the hotly contested issues being fought over by the candidates. That isn't what they've been fighting over, however, it's been:

1.) Terrorism and the war in Iraq (with Bush saying how well he's done on this and with Kerry attacking him)

2.) Economy / Jobs (Bush saying the economy is rounding the corner and saying some new jobs have been created with Kerry attacking by reminding people of the record)

3.) Healthcare / Social Security (we keep robbing from S.S. to pay for our war and pork barrel spending, healthcare costs have grown by a half trillion dollars in the last year so we are looking at an insoluble s.s. and people who can't pay to stop being sick, Kerry has presented a health plan and Bush has attacked it)

etc. etc.

Look, if this was all about abortion and gun rights, I would be a very pissed Republican right now. Republicans control the Senate, Congress, and the Executive branch, the Supreme Court is also mostly conservative. If the Republican leadership was serious about fixing those problems, they would at least try while they have the majority. Fact is, they just want to wave those shiny things in your face and tell you they are on your side while not doing a damn thing about it. The partial birth abortion ban is the only real attempt I've seen on their part to actually cater to the conservative base.

In reality, none of that really matters seeing as how the government is in grave debt, the Iraq debacle is sending our foreign policy in to shark infested waters, and civil liberties at home are being trampled. Voting G.W. again is downright irresponsible and / or ignorant. I encourage you to re-evaluate your position on this matter. Gun rights and stamping out abortion are very important to me, but I've got to sacrifice my conservative social mores and even knock on doors this year to help insure that there is a future worth looking forward to in the U.S.A. . Nobody is going to save us from our current situation, not John Kerry, not the dem.s, nobody, but we've got to stop the bleeding by taking out the administration that started it.

Reply #22 September 17, 2004 6:50 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I hate to CLUE you ut he's right on! The main issues ARE gun control and abortion!

I have no idea what you are smoking, but you really ought to lay off if you believe that ridiculous line of thinking.

With hundreds (and I know believe over a thousand) US deaths in Iraq (let alone all the other turmoil that is going on there for the Iraqi people themselves!), over 44 million uninsured people in America and an economy that, while certainly improved somewhat, not as robust as it has been in the recent past (and I understand that the economy cycles - I am not blaming anyone particularly for this) you can claim that most Americans are concerned with abortion and gun control?

Rubbish.

I'm not even going to cast blame on who did what to get us in our current situation. But I am going to need cold hard facts to back up any claim that gun control and abortion are more pressing on the minds of your average American. Even living in the bubble of liberalism I am in I cannot believe that claim. I think of myself as a pretty average American, and abortion and gun control are really, really far down on any list of priorities at this moment.

Reply #23 September 17, 2004 6:52 PM from PolMach Forums Top

National Security is the number one issue, followed by War in Iraq, followed by War on Terror.

Reply #24 September 17, 2004 8:13 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

National Security is the number one issue, followed by War in Iraq, followed by War on Terror.

I certainly agree that those are much higher on any sensible list of issues than abortion and gun control.

Reply #25 September 17, 2004 9:00 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

drmiler:

The main issues ARE gun control and abortion!

Bullshit. Tell that to my neighbor whose brother-in-law just lost an arm, the lower portion of his face, and a few feet of intestines in Iraq. You got some wacky priorities, dude.

*shakes her head and mutters . . . gun control . . . abortion*