Uh, oh! John Kerry's own AFTER ACTION report supports SBVT version of events

from PolMach Forums
http://www.newscentral.tv/uploads/franchise/point/point-20040913.shtml

which pairs up (for anyone that still doesn't believe it) a nice FACSIMILE copy of the original John Kerry provided report.

http://www.newscentral.tv/thepoint/attachments/attachments.htm



So, keeping score:

Kerry was in Cambodia according to Kerry. Ooops, according to SBVT, nope. Clarified later - NOPE.

Kerry's version of events behind his rescue of Rasman (sp?). Correct to note that Kerry's boat was the ONLY one that left the area.

And now, the version of the events that Kerry reported matches the reports that were documented in the SBVT's book: Unfit for Command.


Oh yeah, these folks are just a bunch of discredited liars.
politics
7,890 views 41 replies
Reply #1 from PolMach Forums Top
Hmmm, makes the case for Kerry's Vietnam a little lacking.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
that fuckin kerry!  if hed just let the lil tyke limp off to school with his armed rocket launcher, i bet the young scamp woulda prolly aced show-n-tell that day.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Only armchair generals have the luxury of interpreting the facts of war.
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
Only armchair generals have the luxury of interpreting the facts of war.


Maybe Steven, but these AARs are writen by Kerry himself soon after the event.

BTW this is one of the Documents Kerry refuses to sign the release to.

Why?
Reply #6 from PolMach Forums Top
Why?


Indeed.
Reply #7 from PolMach Forums Top
It seems pretty safe to assume most of these posts are coming from people that don't support Kerry?

Well, let me get this straight:
Kerry actaully went to Vietnam and risked his life. Bush didn't.
Kerry actually engaged in miltary combat. Bush didn't.
Kerry's served his full tour without any doubt. Bush? Well, that one's still up in the air.
Bush did use wealthy elite establishment ties to avoid risking his neck. Kerry didn't. Even privileged Al Gore actually went to Vietnam.
Cheney never served either in the about eight wars he's been around long enough to fight in. Kerry did.

And there's an argument going on about what medals Kerry really deserves? As opposed to his opponents who both used privilege to avoid actual combat and never put themselves into a position where they could earn a medal?

Please.
Reply #8 from PolMach Forums Top
Well, let me get this straight:
Kerry actaully went to Vietnam and risked his life. Bush didn't.
Kerry actually engaged in miltary combat. Bush didn't.
Kerry's served his full tour without any doubt. Bush? Well, that one's still up in the air.
Bush did use wealthy elite establishment ties to avoid risking his neck. Kerry didn't. Even privileged Al Gore actually went to Vietnam.


Hear Here, Bob Doyle Knows your pain. (You can also replace Bob Doyle with George HW Bush)

Bob Doyle actually went to World War 2 and risked his life, Clinton did not.
Bob Doyle actually engaged in military combat, Clinton did not.
Bob Doyle served his full tour without any doubt. Clinton didn't serve at all.
Clinton did use his ties to get himself out of the draft, Bob Doyle didn't, even privleged George HW Bush and Jimmy Stewart went to war.
John Edwards never served either in the conflicts that has happened since he turned 18, Bob Doyle did.

And there's an argument going on about what medals Bob Doyle really deserves, as opposed to medals Clinton never got because he never served, and
a Silver Star with V device that DOES NOT EXIST or HAS NEVER BEEN ISSUED even if it did exist to ANYONE AT ANYTIME ANYWHERE in the Navy at least. Opponents avoided service altogether and never put them self into a position where they could earn a medal.

How you like the shoe on the other foot?

Please hypocrisy is not acceptable conduct from either side.
Reply #9 from PolMach Forums Top


It seems pretty safe to assume most of these posts are coming from people that don't support Kerry?

Well, let me get this straight:
Kerry actaully went to Vietnam and risked his life. Bush didn't.
Kerry actually engaged in miltary combat. Bush didn't.
Kerry's served his full tour without any doubt. Bush? Well, that one's still up in the air.
Bush did use wealthy elite establishment ties to avoid risking his neck. Kerry didn't. Even privileged Al Gore actually went to Vietnam.
Cheney never served either in the about eight wars he's been around long enough to fight in. Kerry did.

And there's an argument going on about what medals Kerry really deserves? As opposed to his opponents who both used privilege to avoid actual combat and never put themselves into a position where they could earn a medal?

Please.


For myself, the issue isn't what Kerry did or didn't deserve. However, the fact that he has and does tout his medals and service to gain voter approval brings this issue to the forefront. Bush doesn't claim any kind of heroism or rally for approval due to his service in the guard. He has in fact stated that men like and including Kerry are real heroes for their service, and that he did in practicality nothing even similar to the sacrifices and risks they made and took.

Kerry tries to use his medals as a boost to his character, and does so publicly. If there is any doubt that he actually deserved these medals, or may be misrepresenting or hiding facts concerning them, they are important, because Kerry has made them so. It has nothing to do with his bravery, or sacrifice, or anyone attacking his service. It has everything to do with his using these medals for political gain when the manner in which they were earned may be misrepresented in order to appear more favorable to the American people.
Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top
Like how Kerry uses his Vietnam Record but denounces Bush using 9/11 and such, because one should not use such a controversial subject as war in their campaign.
Reply #11 from PolMach Forums Top


How you like the shoe on the other foot?

Please hypocrisy is not acceptable conduct from either side


The shoe fits and feels fine.

One problem with your scenario, citizen, is that this is the 2004 election. As far as I know Bill Clinton isn't running.



Bush doesn't claim any kind of heroism or rally for approval due to his service


Is collective amnesia in effect here? Are Bush's 2000 campaign commercials wiht pictures of him from his days in the guard already forgotten?
Have we already forgotten the dramatic commercials with voiceovers touting his service to his country already forgotten?

Anyone remember Bush getting into a jet and landing on an aircraft carrier letting the world know our military president had declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq?

Or did all of that just go "down the memory hole?"
Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top
One problem with your scenario, citizen, is that this is the 2004 election. As far as I know Bill Clinton isn't running.


Though I was only trying to point out the hypocrisy of your using Kerry's war record against Bush, when it was not the case when Clinton was running against Doyle, which is my point.

Anyone remember Bush getting into a jet and landing on an aircraft carrier letting the world know our military president had declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq?


What did you expect, one a jet pilot, always a JET PILOT, it's in their blood and the very fiber of their being. Sounds like you just disappointed about the Vietnam thing, but Kerry shoots down Bush using 9/11, Afghanistan, and Iraq on the basis that one should not use such a controversial subject as war while he uses Vietnam, hypocrisy strikes again, even top Democratic Advisors are saying Kerry is going down, keep informed.

Also, do you have something wrong with the National Guard and the Reserve?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

Bob Doyle


who the hell is bob doyle? 


btw i was kidding about letting the kid take his rocket launcher back to show & tell.   apparently yall took it seriously

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

Anyone remember Bush getting into a jet and landing on an aircraft carrier letting the world know our military president had declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq?


exactly.  i incorporated that into my new solution to the problem of whos the better military man.  Link

Reply #15 from PolMach Forums Top
Is collective amnesia in effect here? Are Bush's 2000 campaign commercials wiht pictures of him from his days in the guard already forgotten?
Have we already forgotten the dramatic commercials with voiceovers touting his service to his country already forgotten?


I was in high school at the time, and no, I do not remember them, as I did not really pay attention then. My bad. However, during the current campaign season, which is what I am referring to, this has not been the case, while Kerry has touted his medals during his presidential bid.

Anyone remember Bush getting into a jet and landing on an aircraft carrier letting the world know our military president had declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq?


This had nothing to do with his previous military experience, or any kind of "I served and protected our country" kind of campain relating to his guard years.. This was entirely to do with Iraq.
Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top
who the hell is bob doyle?


Sorry misspelled his name in a hurry, it's Bob Dole but George HW Bush would work as well.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

This was entirely to do with Iraq.


you couldnt be more correct.  nor could bush have been more wrong when he engaged in that ridiculous expression of hubris.   its amazing to me that kerry hasnt used some of that footage to remind people the extent to which bush and his war cabinet were wayyyyyyyy out in the zone regarding 'their' war in iraq.  on second thought, it would be needlessly cruel to the families of gis whove been injured or killed since the war was officially declared to be over.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
just outta curiosity,  how do you think the troops in iraq respond to the sudden appearance of a teenage member of the al-sadr mahdi militia holding a slaw?  or his sunni countepart in fallujah?   for that matter what do you think happens when an armed 15 year old gangbanger jumps out in front of a cop car in any alley in america?  
Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
FEUER FREI, BANG BANG!!!
Reply #20 from PolMach Forums Top
It just goes to show that this country hates vets who run for president. Even the other war vets hate them. It's ironic, we love war and guns but hate the ones who fight in any war.
Reply #21 from PolMach Forums Top
Bob Dole and George HW Bush know your pain.
Reply #22 from PolMach Forums Top
If only war vet John McCain were the president. This country would be so much better off.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

It just goes to show that this country hates vets who run for president


for 42 of the past 54 years, being a vet was damn near a requirement for election to any office worth running for.  the real irony is this: the party that made that happen is also the one that trashed 2 vets in the past 4 years.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #11 By: 1tomot1 - 9/15/2004 11:01:13 PM



How you like the shoe on the other foot?

Please hypocrisy is not acceptable conduct from either side


The shoe fits and feels fine.

One problem with your scenario, citizen, is that this is the 2004 election. As far as I know Bill Clinton isn't running.




Bush doesn't claim any kind of heroism or rally for approval due to his service


Is collective amnesia in effect here? Are Bush's 2000 campaign commercials wiht pictures of him from his days in the guard already forgotten?
Have we already forgotten the dramatic commercials with voiceovers touting his service to his country already forgotten?

Anyone remember Bush getting into a jet and landing on an aircraft carrier letting the world know our military president had declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq?

Or did all of that just go "down the memory hole?"


first point this is 2004 election and NOT 2000! And as such ads that were run for the 2000 campaign should have absolutely NO bearing on THIS campaign!
second point landing a jet on a carrier is NOT saying look at me I'm a hero (like Kerry is trying to do!)! The mission accomplished banner has ALREADY been proven NOT to be his idea! It was the SHIP's idea! And it was pure chance that it ended up in the photo! Get a grip!
BTW THANK GOD Clinton is NOT running!
And personally I'd like to see YOU land a jet on a carrier! As an ex-member of the USN air wing (Carrier Airwing 12) I know from experience that the landing in question was both VERY dangerous and VERY difficult!
Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
Even the other war vets hate them


Wrong, as a war vet myself. We only hate ones that use us as political stepping stones to start a political career. Lying under oath to Congress and calling us all baby killers during a war.

Since the actions taken in this AAR matches what multiple other people have stated (to include the SBVs) and not Kerry's present account. Then one has to wonder what other stories he has changed. So far the Swift boats have proven five different times in their book that Kerry's stories are wrong. It is making me think what else is in those other AARs that Kerry refuses to release.

As for McCain, I have repeatedly told people on JU to read or listen to the rest of that debate that Kerry's Camp. has conveniently did not shown in thier ad. McCain agreed with Bush during the remainder of that debate that the man who made those statements also smeared hundreds of other vets to include Bush Sr. and that this NC guy had nothing to due with the Bush Camp. That is why McCain demanded the Kerry ad to be pulled, because it didn't show the complete story. If you also notice McCain has not complained about any of the SBVs other ads that they have released.

I respect Kerry for going to Vietnam but that's about it. Everything he had done after arriving in country and his return was for personnel and political gain. The types of political moves that make common people hate politicians. If anybody has tainted American's view on military service it is Kerry himself who is showing it can be exploited for political gain. I don't see Bush slamming Kerry's record, only Kerry saying he did.

That’s My Two Cents