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Iraq: Journalist Killed by Apache Gunship on Live Television

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Iraq: Journalist Killed by Apache Gunship on Live Television

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from JoeUser Forums
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Yesterday, Mazen al-Tomasi, a reporter for Al-Arabiya, was broadcasting live from the scene of a carbombed Bradley Fighting Vehicle, which had attracted a crowd of locals. While making his report, a sudden noise came from behind Mazen.

Two Apache helicopters flew in overhead, and one of them started attacking the crowd, with their guns. The crowd, which included several small children, tried to run away. A helicopter launched a missile...

Mazen al-Tomasi was struck by shrapnel from the blast on live television. His cameraman, Seif Fouad, fell down from the force of the explosion. Mazen's blood spattered across the camera's lens and the screams of the dying and injured were heard. Mazen screamed to Seif for help: "Seif, Seif! I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

Seif grabbed Mazen and started to pull him out of harm's way. Suddenly, another missile was launched, and Seif was hit by shrapnel in the leg and abdomen. Seif, seriously wounded, watched his friend Mazen die soon afterwards. Twelve were killed, 61 wounded in the attack.

A US military spokesman said the helicopters opened fire after coming under attack from the crowd, and that they fired to prevent looters from stripping the vehicle. That said, the vehicle was burning too badly to be stripped, and the television footage showed no evidence of any shooting from the ground, or indeed, any armed Iraqis whatsoever. The full video of this is was seen by millions of Arabs and is apparently something that Reuters has the rights to -- Saif works for Reuters -- but something tells me that it will never make the evening news.
politics
11,702 views 31 replies
Reply #26 from PolMach Forums Top
I didn't say they shouldn't blow up the vehicle, or destroy it, but arent there other ways to do it? Can the bradley be made to blow up after a certain time on it's own after the flip of a switch, with a warning to those in the area the vehicle would blow up in x minutes? Can't the bradley spray tear gas? Can't SOP be changed to include measures that don't kill people? I don't work for the military, but it seems to me that with a few changes, it would not be that hard to prevent the slaughter of innocent lives. Even if it cost a billion dollars, it would be worth it.


Problem is it takes time for the Army to change to whatever new stuff is introduced. Like the Bradley for example, original concept was in the early 1960s, at that time it looked more like a Russian BMP than what it is today because it is a Armored Personnel Carrier. Bureaucrat Generals at the DOD had the design changed many times before it got into it's current form, which is taller than an Abrams, less armored than Abrams, but looks like a much more important target than Abrams but it is still only an APC.

So they started the prototypes in the 80s, tested them, found that the aluminum armor caused toxic fumes to kill everybody inside the vehicle, changed that, changed some other things, and eventually the Bradley got introduced during the 90s, still has problems but oh well the government spent money on it so they better use it. This is just one example; there are other programs like this as well.

Problem for your first question is to get the Bradley to blow up by itself it would have to destroy all equipment that means a huge blast, let alone someone could probably have enough time to grab stuff. Bradley spraying tear gas, well you would need a system in place that would still work even if the vehicle is disabled and partially destroyed not to mention the stuff could leak out whenever if a bullet hits it or the system malfunctions.

SOP is changed all the time as it reflects lessons learned from AARs (After Action Reports) if this situation happens again we will see what they have changed from it, but because they learned lessons does not mean this WILL happen again, after all part of the lessons learned are also meant to prevent the whole situation from happening, like an Abrams should have been there not a Bradley, it takes many a RPG to phase the Abrams.

Someone more versed on the bureaucracy of the Army could probably answer better than myself, for I may have missed something.

- GX
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #24 By: sandy2 - 10/2/2004 3:03:44 PM
I didn't say they shouldn't blow up the vehicle, or destroy it, but arent there other ways to do it? Can the bradley be made to blow up after a certain time on it's own after the flip of a switch, with a warning to those in the area the vehicle would blow up in x minutes? Can't the bradley spray tear gas? Can't SOP be changed to include measures that don't kill people? I don't work for the military, but it seems to me that with a few changes, it would not be that hard to prevent the slaughter of innocent lives. Even if it cost a billion dollars, it would be worth it.


I'll try to answer this if I can GX. If I go wrong please feel free to correct. No the Bradley can't be made to blow up like the Apache. That would require putting armour plate on the vehicle, thereby severly *reducing* its capabilities. The plate would be *needed* to stop small arms fire from prematurly setting off the explosive charges. You *don't* *spray* tear gas. It's carried in the form of a grenade like fixture that is either fired from a weapon or thrown by hand. And the SOP you speak of has been SOP for probably longer than you've been alive. And it gets changed on a as needed basis. And just how do you know they were innocent lives? Were you there? Of course not your going on what the media tells you. Which boils down to what I said before about the media. You get the *what* but NEVER the *why*.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ummm . . . hows about lets have the Iraqi people get out of the damn way when they see the Apache Gunship coming? Hmmm . . . nobody dies and we don't have to spend any more money . . . "innocent" people don't gather around our vehicles and loot and rubberneck, and if "innocent" people did before, maybe they won't now.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
I didn't say they shouldn't blow up the vehicle, or destroy it, but arent there other ways to do it? Can the bradley be made to blow up after a certain time on it's own after the flip of a switch, with a warning to those in the area the vehicle would blow up in x minutes? Can't the bradley spray tear gas? Can't SOP be changed to include measures that don't kill people? I don't work for the military, but it seems to me that with a few changes, it would not be that hard to prevent the slaughter of innocent lives. Even if it cost a billion dollars, it would be worth it.


Gee Sandy2...............your concern for the terrorist-loving Al-Arabiya reporter and a bunch of civilian looters and rubber-neckers is commendable. I am just curious if you showed this much concern for the victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.

I can just see your hysterical nonsense as it would translate to what happened on 9/11/01.
"Can't those hijacked planes be made to blow up at a certain time on their own at the flip of a switch with a warning to the hijackers and the passengers that the plane is going to blow up?
"How come the hijackers didn't give the people in the WTC and in the Pentagon a warning to evacuate those buildings before they rammed their planes into them?"
"Can't those plane cockpits spray teargas if the pilots get their throats slit and the plane is taken over by hijackers?"
"Can't Al Qaeda change their SOP so innocent people don't get killed?"

Do you see how RIDICULOUS and NAIVE you sound, Sandy2?

War is HELL. Innocent people DIE. Life's a BITCH.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
See patriot, you are undermining the US. I love the US, but apparently you don't because you insist on comparing the US to Al Qaieda.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just viwed the video link provided. As an American man and a Catholic I feel very sorry for the innocents who lost their lives in that incident. However I am extremely sorry for the crew of the Bradley. I was deployed in Iraq, fought from south to north and witnessed many, many things. It is very apparent that Iraqis just love to crowd around destroyed American equipment, both to celabrate ( the thought of it makes me sick, but I shouldn't be suprised, these people are ruthless.) and simply to be seen on telivision.
People die in war, combatants and non-combatants alike. That is the price of war on humanity. In this situation however, actually in all of Iraq, the Iraqis who come out to see and celebrate the destruction and possable desacration of our soldiers bodys, I don't feel too much pity. I agree with most of the above posts. The Iraqis should not be crowding around a destroyed vehicle, its no secret that our forces ALWAYS come to claim the bodys of the fallen and if not, destroy the vehicle to prevent any sensiteve items to be stolen. They heard the apaches approach, no one moved. Big mistake. And if, IF, the reports are true that the aircrew were taking fire from the crowd, then the innocent, ignorant people in that crowd should have run away as soon as any insurgents begain to fire on our aircraft. Common sense tells you that we will fire back, one dead American is still one of our nations best dead and nothing, no one, will just let it happen because "innocent" people are around.
thats my view anyway/