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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
+42
Reply #26 September 12, 2004 1:41:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

" If it was Bill Clinton "would" have been impeached


he was impeached...and that is exactly why.   youre having a bit of a bad day what with that 16 of the past 24 year business on marvin cooleys thread.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
+42
Reply #27 September 12, 2004 1:45:34 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

stress IF he did not complete his military service he WOULD NOT have gotten a honorable discharge from the US NAVY


considering whats at issue is whether he did complete his military service commitment, you may be incorrect here as well.  

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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #28 September 12, 2004 1:51:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That's hysterical, Messy!! Great link!.

Here's their line of reasoning:

IF it is possible that some 1973-73 vintage typewriter somewhere could type a proper superscript, and

IF it is possible that some such typewriter could have used a font similar (or identical to) Times New Roman, and

IF it is possible that some such typewriter could have accidentally gotten the header to exactly line up centered to an accuracy of 1/1440th of an inch, on 3 lines, on documents allegedly typed 3 weeks apart, and

IF Lt Col Killian happened to choose to manually set the margins on such a typewriter to exactly 1.25" left and right, and

IF the Texas Air National Guard happened to have such a typewriter, one of the only typewriters in existence at the time capable of coming close to producing such a document, and

IF Lt Col Killian happened to be typing his own memos, and

IF Buck Staudt was 18-months retired but still kickin' ass & takin' names at the Texas ANG, and

IF Lt Col Killian actually gave a rat's ass what an 18-month retired general thought or said, and

IF all but one of the technical forensic document experts cited so far, and the only expert on the only machine theoretically capable of producing a simlar docuement, are wrong, and

IF unnamed "reliable sources" who vouch for the documents are believed, and

IF we ignore the fact that anyone with a computer could create an exact duplicate of the document, then

OF COURSE, THE DOCUMENTS ARE AUTHENTIC AND CANNOT BE DISPUTED. WHAT MORE COULD YOU RABID WINGNUTS WANT, FOR CRIPES SAKE?

Cheers,
Daiw
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #29 September 12, 2004 2:02:45 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And we have Rather's confession, anyway.

He's already said that the questions he has raised are far more important than the basis for asking them.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
Abanamore
Join Date 01/0001
+13
Reply #30 September 12, 2004 2:04:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think we have a different situation in terms of the media where we need to consider whether the documents are real as well as the significance of what they tell us.


That's just the issue--if these memos are indeed fake, then they tell us nothing. There have been so many challenges on the authenticity of these documents in just the last few days that CBS really needs to give a bona fide explanation as to why the memos should be regarded as authentic over the numerous issues that have been raised. Each of those issues, taken individually, doesn't really mean much, but when you can assemble a laundry list of technical and logical problems as well as numerous experts who believe these things are fake (or at least lean to that conclusion), then it starts to become pretty damning. I'm _still_ not certain on my personal call on the whole issue (I suppose it's your right to call me delusional for that, Draginol ), but there certainly needs to be an honest, thorough and open evaluation of everything that has been brought up.
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Draginol
Anthony R
Join Date 01/2003
+59
Reply #31 September 12, 2004 2:05:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The funny part about the defense of these documents is that Terry Mc awful already started blaming Karl Rove for the forgeries; you have to be huffing glue at this point to believe these things are real. The whole attack on Bush’s records is irrational to begin with; but then again, the people defending these records are the people who want to militarize and pack off the Bush twins to Iraq, so Rationality has never been one of the strong points with these here people.
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Draginol
Castle
Join Date 12/2002
0
Reply #32 September 12, 2004 2:32:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Source Pulls Support for Memos on Bush Guard Service http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132157,00.html

"A key source who was named to back up CBS News' claims about the authenticity of documents used in a report on President Bush's Air National Guard service has recanted his support, saying the network got the information wrong."

Well, well, well....as this ship sinks - take notice at all the scattering rats.
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Draginol
landen81
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #33 September 12, 2004 2:45:39 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I don't care if W did or didn't serve or if Kerry did or didn't earn his purple hearts. I'm voting Kerry because Bush is simply evil. Everything he does or has done has ruined this earth and it's time for a change. In fact, I'm glad CBS ran this story. I see it as damage control for those lying Swift Boat Vets. It reminds the public of Bush's cowardice.
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #34 September 12, 2004 3:20:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #26 By: kingbee - 9/12/2004 1:41:57 PM
" If it was Bill Clinton "would" have been impeached



he was impeached...and that is exactly why. youre having a bit of a bad day what with that 16 of the past 24 year business on marvin cooleys thread.


Wrong answer "kingbee"! While he WAS put on trial, he was not found guilty (which to this day I don't understand!) which meant no impeachment. The only reason he wasn't on the Demo ticket in 2000 was because he had already served 2 terms (that's the limit!).


President Clinton's so-called impeachment trial was sure-proof that the lawyers and politicians of today have set up separate laws for themselves and for everyone else. If any person not in government was proven to have lied under oath in court as president Clinton has, they would be instantly locked up in prison for perjury, so how did Clinton get away with it? Obviously modern politics and law has one set of laws for the rich (lawyers and politicians) and another for everyone else. By not only letting this injustice happen but by also encouraging it, the American people have proven to the whole world that they think that it's alright for their leader to commit adultery and lie to them and the rest of the world, which makes all American people look, to the rest of the world, to be nothing but liars and adulterers and as long as they are making money they don't care.

How can anyone trust or believe anything Bill Clinton or any American says now, after he has been proven beyond any doubt to be guilty of lying to the whole world under oath, and the so-called highest court of 'law' in America found him not guilty. It is supposed to be a court of law but in a court the jury has to vote on the evidence, not for their own political party or position. This makes the trial a farce and every peace-treaty and agreement that Clinton and the Americans have signed with other nations to be of no effect because he, through his own actions, and the people through theirs have proven their word to be of absolutely no value. A man is only as good as his word and a country is only as good as its leader (or more accurately, a country gets the leader it deserves). . . .
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #35 September 12, 2004 3:26:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #33 By: landen81 - 9/12/2004 2:45:39 PM
I don't care if W did or didn't serve or if Kerry did or didn't earn his purple hearts. I'm voting Kerry because Bush is simply evil. Everything he does or has done has ruined this earth and it's time for a change. In fact, I'm glad CBS ran this story. I see it as damage control for those lying Swift Boat Vets. It reminds the public of Bush's cowardice.



Reply #32 By: zObelisk - 9/12/2004 2:32:56 PM
Source Pulls Support for Memos on Bush Guard Service http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132157,00.html

"A key source who was named to back up CBS News' claims about the authenticity of documents used in a report on President Bush's Air National Guard service has recanted his support, saying the network got the information wrong."


If the second quote is true "landen81" CBS has done "more" damage to John Kerry than to GW Bush! And the swift boat vets have "yet" to be proven as liars.GW is no more evil than Sen. Kerry. And "please" don't call my commander-in-chief a "coward"!
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #36 September 12, 2004 3:32:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #27 By: kingbee - 9/12/2004 1:45:34 PM
stress IF he did not complete his military service he WOULD NOT have gotten a honorable discharge from the US NAVY



considering whats at issue is whether he did complete his military service commitment, you may be incorrect here as well.


Get a grip! GW's discharge is from quite a few years ago! And as is documented proof to the contrary! "No" one is questioning his discharge....why not? Because they KNOW the other BS is just that!
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #37 September 12, 2004 3:37:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #25 By: drmiler - 9/12/2004 1:07:50 PM

Reply #23 By: Daiwa - 9/12/2004 11:40:09 AM
"And you can only be impeached for acts committed while in office, so you're gonna have to try claiming the Iraq war was an impeachable offense, or something else - I have complete faith you can come up with something."

I'll retract that part - you're claiming he lied while in office. OK, not good enough (& not proven), but OK.

Cheers,
Daiwa


And lying in office is "not" an impeachable offense "either"


I would publicly like recant part of my earlier post. It seems lying in office IS an impeachable offense!
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Draginol
Don Bemont
Join Date 06/2003
0
Reply #38 September 12, 2004 3:43:29 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Personally, I think they will probaly get away with it, but it would be great if they got caught -- but only if they get caught pror to the election. It will be a nightmare if they get caught after the election.

Who is "they"? The dirty tricks division of the Bush campaign.

What will they get away with? Planting forgeries upon their least favorite network, CBS.

Personally, I am convinced that these are forgeries, and I am convinced that they were planted by Republicans, or with the cooperation of the Republicans. (If they are reasonably smart, it will turn out to be the latter.)

Will they get caught? Probably not in time to affect the election, but I smell a Watergate in this -- paranoid, dirty tricks that were not actually needed to win the election, and which may come back to bite them when they try to turn the electoral win into governance.

The tipoff is the speed of the Republican reaction (it came before the end of the CBS broadcast) and the extreme focus of their response. They were all too ready for this. It was crucial that, once the forgeries were planted, that no time elapse, or the whole thing could backfire, if the country got going on Bush's behavior in the military.

Personally, I do not care if Bush ducked his duty or not, I don't care if Kerry took a bullet or shrapnel or a mosquito bite. I know that Kerry did better by his country during the Vietnam War, but all that is long, long ago. All I care is that the country figure out which man and which direction will do better for America, and that the election be decided in a way that lends legitimacy to the man who serves as president -- and I see all this as yet one more blow to my hopes.
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #39 September 12, 2004 3:51:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Personally, I do not care if Bush ducked his duty or not, I don't care if Kerry took a bullet or shrapnel or a mosquito bite. I know that Kerry did better by his country during the Vietnam War, but all that is long, long ago. All I care is that the country figure out which man and which direction will do better for America, and that the election be decided in a way that lends legitimacy to the man who serves as president -- and I see all this as yet one more blow to my hopes.


He may have served his country "well" in Vietnam. That's not for the likes of you or me to decide. "But" he did his country and his fellow soldiers a GRAVE disservice after he got home! And as such it is "my" "opinion" that he will lose in Nov. because of it.
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #40 September 12, 2004 3:59:08 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Personally, I am convinced that these are forgeries, and I am convinced that they were planted by Republicans, or with the cooperation of the Republicans. (If they are reasonably smart, it will turn out to be the latter.)


On the basis of what evidence, exactly? First the documents are claimed to be real, then when they're not, they're claimed to have been planted by Republicans. If CBS can back that up, you think they'd sit on it?

What a crock of shit. Sorry, but that's just what that statement is. 'Course, depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
+7
Reply #41 September 12, 2004 4:00:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Kerry claimed to have been fighting illegally in Cambodia. Kerry claims to have committed many acts counter to the laws of war and the Geneva Convention. Kerry only AFTER he left the service bothered to say anthing, using them to propel his political career.

In the great pantheon of sins, I'm not sure these fuzzy documents about whether or not Bush showed up for a physical really stacks up against a self-confessed war criminal.

Who would you rather baby-sit your kids? Someone who dodged the draft or someone who without complaint and with great zeal commited "War Crimes"? If someone's character is too suspect to baby-sit my kid, they aren't fit to babysit my country.


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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #42 September 12, 2004 4:06:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #41 By: BakerStreet - 9/12/2004 4:00:23 PM
Kerry claimed to have been fighting illegally in Cambodia. Kerry claims to have committed many acts counter to the laws of war and the Geneva Convention. Kerry only AFTER he left the service bothered to say anthing, using them to propel his political career.

In the great pantheon of sins, I'm not sure these fuzzy documents about whether or not Bush showed up for a physical really stacks up against a self-confessed war criminal.

Who would you rather baby-sit your kids? Someone who dodged the draft or someone who without complaint and with great zeal commited "War Crimes"? If someone's character is too suspect to baby-sit my kid, they aren't fit to babysit my country


Hey "bakerstreet" lets boil it down a bit further shall we" Who would you rather have a beer with in or out of a bar? Personally I'd pick GW "anyday".
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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
+42
Reply #43 September 12, 2004 4:39:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Wrong answer "kingbee"! While he WAS put on trial, he was not found guilty (which to this day I don't understand!) which meant no impeachment


cmon.  clinton is one of two presidents whove been impeached.  following his impeachment the matter went to trial before the senate.


 

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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #44 September 12, 2004 4:40:50 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

On the basis of what evidence, exactly? First the documents are claimed to be real, then when they're not, they're claimed to have been planted by Republicans. If CBS can back that up, you think they'd sit on it?


If it turns out that it's not the Republicans, then I'm sure the Jews will be blamed next. Yet another reason why I'm voting for Bush. The people who want Kerry in office have gone crazy.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #45 September 12, 2004 4:43:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

 

who want to militarize and pack off the Bush twins to Iraq


ive been advocating that for several years.  however after seeing them in action at the rnc, i realized it was a bad idea since it would probably endanger the lives of those who hadda serve with them.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #46 September 12, 2004 4:57:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Kerry claims to have committed many acts counter to the laws of war and the Geneva Convention.


the us military rules of engagement in effect during the conflict in vietnam sanctioned the violations of the geneva accords to which kerry testified.   this has to be the fifth time ive pointed that out. 


Who would you rather baby-sit your kids? Someone who dodged the draft or someone who without complaint and with great zeal commited "War Crimes"? If someone's character is too suspect to baby-sit my kid, they aren't fit to babysit my country


in other words youre claiming infantrymen who patrolled free fire zones or were provided with weapons considered inappropriate for use in promixity to civilian populations--which would mean just about such veterans--shouldnt  be be left alone with children. since you brought it up, ill let you warn the public.

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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #47 September 12, 2004 5:01:21 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Who would you rather baby-sit your kids? Someone who dodged the draft or someone who without complaint and with great zeal commited "War Crimes"? If someone's character is too suspect to baby-sit my kid, they aren't fit to babysit my country.


I don't mind if a war criminal babysits my child, unless it's a woman. That Lyndie England is the Devil (but Kerry is noble for his war crimes)!

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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #48 September 12, 2004 5:09:34 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And now we learn that CBS never had the original documents in their possession. There are no original documents for them to submit to independent examination. Dan Rather is an even bigger idiot than we thought for running with a story he could not even come close to confirming.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
Abanamore
Join Date 01/0001
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Reply #49 September 12, 2004 5:12:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Yep, it's me JBD again. Mr. Wardell (aka Draginol aka Frogboy), you've done well in surrounding yourself with such a pack of rabid right-wing twits on this site. Frankly, I am surprised that for such a mild-mannered persona you carry on other online places, such as Usenet and on QT3, that you would have such a petty streak as is being manifested on your pet site. I suppose we all have our pecadilloes. An advise then, that you keep your petty views as this more tightly under wraps, and not link to it within your adverts for your wares. It is very offputting, not to mention embarrassing, and will not do your career any service. If I had ever hold an ounce of interest in your products, believe me when I say that I wouldn't touch them now even if you pay me.

For the record, I am neither a Republican nor Democrat. I am sick and tired of the petty and twisted and partisan clamor from both sides. Have you looked at your nation's deficits lately? Do you know what the words 'social security' and 'imminent bankruptcy' have in common? Do you care that the war in Iraq has seemingly no end? Yet here you are with your petty little rants about petty little election lies. As if that were news, eh? Good lord man, grow and spine and stand up and look above the rock you're cowering under.

Good bye, I will not be here again. I try avoid bigots when I can.
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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #50 September 12, 2004 5:21:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Yep, it's me JBD again. Mr. Wardell (aka Draginol aka Frogboy), you've done well in surrounding yourself with such a pack of rabid right-wing twits on this site. Frankly, I am surprised that for such a mild-mannered persona you carry on other online places, such as Usenet and on QT3, that you would have such a petty streak as is being manifested on your pet site. I suppose we all have our pecadilloes. An advise then, that you keep your petty views as this more tightly under wraps, and not link to it within your adverts for your wares. It is very offputting, not to mention embarrassing, and will not do your career any service. If I had ever hold an ounce of interest in your products, believe me when I say that I wouldn't touch them now even if you pay me.


So, anybody who believes this memo is fake is a right-wing twit? Nice.

For the record, I am neither a Republican nor Democrat. I am sick and tired of the petty and twisted and partisan clamor from both sides. Have you looked at your nation's deficits lately? Do you know what the words 'social security' and 'imminent bankruptcy' have in common? Do you care that the war in Iraq has seemingly no end? Yet here you are with your petty little rants about petty little election lies. As if that were news, eh? Good lord man, grow and spine and stand up and look above the rock you're cowering under.


I like how everybody says they're an independent. I'm starting to believe that there's no such thing. I'm sure there is though, but some people claim to be independent because it makes them seem less kooky than they really are.

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