1.03 AI

I've also found it a whole lot tougher on Incredible in the latest update. No PQ15 and AI who are very reluctant to buy tech from me in cash. They still are willing to exchange tech but it is extremely tough to exchange tribute for tech.

I believe I only managed to get it once from a minor race near the start. Subsequently, I couldn't get any interest from both majors and minors to buy my tech even though some of them had 4 figure sums in their treasury. I thought the I-League should be interested in my Battleship tech when they will in a war with enemies with Battleship. They had quite a sum of money but they were simply not interested.

The AI does lease a lot more and exchange techs among themselves at the start (or demand them from minors). I noticed that they also mantain their morale at 100% so that their pop growth is much faster.

What I'm interested to test is the nasty Arcean AI so I've gearing up for a war against them soon to see how they would fare

They don't really maintain their morale at 100% on purpose I think. It's just a result of, among other things, the +20% PQ & morale bonus they receive on incredible difficulty.

Umm...with all due respect (to some of the very best players/posters in this game)...

I have not seen any clear "cheats" employed by the AI in 1.03 except at "Incedible" difficuly, where their advantages are clearly stated by Brad & SD in the Forums.

Instead, the AI's are far better at maximizing their inherent advantages...and at the very beginning (i.e., the first turn) of the game.

Like most players, the AI's now maintain their morale at the best "break-even" point, i.e., that which maximizes their income whilst minimizing their morale loss.

For this reason, influence and diplomacy are commesuratly reduced, as the computer values them lower, since it is now optimized to realize the best economy possible.

I like this, because now I have to truly think (at start) whether I want to build a SB (and pursue a Cultural victory) or a Fleet (and Conquer stuff). I cannot do both.

I am sure (given the obvious superiority of the above players to me on the MV) that I am not saying anything here ZaH etc. has not already countered.

Instead, I would just like to congratulate Brad on an (AI) job well done.

Would that the cow did so well...

~SDC~

The AI does receive a host of ability bonuses on incredible difficulty, and you can deduce them from early espionage reports if you are interested. It might be a little harder to nail them down now that they aren't so fascinated with the war party though. The list of bonuses I wrote down before v1.03 were:

Economics: +25% (I think this is even higher now)
Morale: +20%
Military Production: +30%
Social Production: +30%
Influence: +25%
Trade: +33%
Diplomacy: +25% (might be higher, not sure)
Interest Rate: +10%
Planety Quality: +20% (I've seen +24% in v1.03)

Some of these bonuses might be innate ability picks that all the AIs shared in my game, but as you can see, they add up to quite a bit more than just 10 points. I am absolutely certain that there is a planet quality bonus for AIs on incredible difficulty. You'll notice the PQ and morale of a highly populated planet dropping dramatically if you acquire it through cultural influence for example, in addition to seeing it in espionage reports.

The bonuses are, of course, undocumented at the moment

Thanks Za H, very informative. Definitely PQ bonuses, as you had observed.

I presume there is a similar but lower set of bonuses for Genius level?

Now AI cheating like any other... Someone told us that comp plays fair game (with the exception of economy bonus) and this is one of the main 'features' that distinguish this game from many others. And for what i payed my money? I can play in any other game there AI is also cheating. Someone just lied to us.

~SDC~

Ellestar,

The AI plays "fair" up to Intelligent. At Genius and Incredible, the developers have been upfront to say that the AI are given bonuses. Just that the bonuses were not explicitly documented.

In my opinion, these two AI levels are great for those players who want a tougher challenge. No AI at this point in time would be a match for humans especially in a complex strategy game. I'm having a blast playing at Incredible.

If you like playing against a fair AI, play Intelligent

No, they said that comp only gains 1,4 economy bonus.
By the way, it starts with ~2500-3000 bc.

~SDC~

I agree 100% with the original poster. Game needed to be a bit harder before (in 1.02). Now it's gone the other way and is too hard.

The latest re-patch of v1.03 has alleviated the difficulty with diplomatic trades somewhat, inching down the level of difficulty a bit. I could hardly get 8 BC for "Trade" before it (on masochist), and now its value is back to the 100-150 BC range again. Let's not be too quick to judgement just yet. I think we're closer to good balance than we were before.

I have done a lot of testing (with as late as the second 1.03 patch) and it is my opinion that the game cheets in the following ways. (BTW I wan't to make it clear to everyone that my definition of cheeting is not the same definition as frogboy uses. I am only commenting on intel. and gen. AI levels, honestly the AI cheets to much for me to have fun at increadable even though I probably could win once in a while.

1) Very little or no fog of war (they have admited yellow stars and specials, but lots of reports from other players like above in this thread.) This includes being in contact with other races without having to send a scout to see them.
2) the ability have diplomatic relations with other races with out UnivTransolator (I am not 100% on this one on 1.03)
3) at genius they start out with 2k or 2k+ BC's (at least I have seen thim on turn 3 or 4 have this much with pre 1.03:)
4) I can not detect any long term costs for any of there trades, tributes or rush building. IE I have a save game in 1.03 that the Computer on Genius level did this: On turn 5 he buys a constructor on his 1 and only 1 planet, then on turn 6 or 7 buys another constructor (PQ 16 planet) By turn 10 I get UnivTransalater and find he has 2 colony ships, 2 constructors, 3 baselevel techs and 550 BC's all with 1 and only 1 PQ16 planet that lists 16 income and 17 outgo... If I did this I would be spending upwards to 30 or 40 BC's in leases for 100+ turns even if I started with 2k just accounting for the constructors alone)
5) I not sure, and I am doubtfull (I have not pined this one down at all) that they spend money to know your stats.
6) In diplomatic circles there algorithms for how much and maybe how they talk to other races and deal with them is not the same rate or circumstances as the human player. (again without a trainer or a god type mode this is hard to pin down)
7) there is still a bug where they can send out colony ships out of range in 1.03.. I need to send this one in (unless they can start with range +3 on intelegent) I think this is a wrap around the world issue since it was from 1 board edge to another.

I'll have to retract that statement about tech values being restored I think. It turns out that only one minor civ was willing to pay me tribute for cash, and I can't figure why it was the only one doing so. I'm almost 150 turns into my current game and I have yet to convince someone else to pay me more than 10 BC for any tech.

Za H,

For some reason, I could sell tech once in the early game to one minor for a decent sum. Subsequently, it is like you said. Maybe only cheaper techs get considered by the AI.

RayChua:

Was this the first minor you met? It was for me...

Trade.
It seems that minor civ (maybe not only minor) checks how much money it needs for rushbying and perhaps for 100% spending for next several (20?) turns and trades only money left, if there is no *free* (sparse? don't sure about english word) it gives only several bc for 1 tech. So minor civ with 1 planet is a best trading partner - you can trade with them and then sell them techs.

~SDC~

Yea, the only way now to get good tech/money trade is to feed a minor with loads of trade and try to build him up as much as possibly economically, then you can do some major tech/trade money.

However, this new AI isn't all bad ... I've noticed that I'm buying a lot of tech for money now!

There is definately a maximum amount the AI will trade for tech. It's fairly easy to find the limit - give him a huge tech, see how much he will trade for it, then cut that by 1/2-1/4r so. At that level, you will get fairly ok trades.

However, this DOES lead to overly tedius tech trading, as you can only trade one or two techs at a time, even though you CAN repeat it a number of times before the level drops too much. Seems like its not quite a pool, but rather a maximum amount it will trade in one go. That's not good - I don't want to have to trade 50 techs one at a time to get the maximum amount from it.


~SDC~

matso, definitely some kind of per-trade limit. In my last game on a gigantic map, I was the tech leader early on, and by the time I contacted the last AI race, I had about 8 techs that the AI didn't. So I threw all the techs into a trade, worked out the absolute max that the AI was willing to pay. I then started removing techs, and the deal didn't sour until I removed 4 techs. So, I put the last one back in, sent the deal, and then did a seperate deal for the last three techs.

After that, whenever I'm really tight financially, I'll sell a single tech at a time, even if doing it that way is annoying.

About the 'AI bonus' thing - I recently encountered this: I set up a game on a large map, with 'intelligent' and 'bright'
opposition. Actually maybe it was harder, I am not sure, the game registered as 'tough' though.
I set expenditure to 100%, military to 80%, landed my colonizer on the first turn and used Earth to build
a colonizer and the first planet to build a couple of scouts. By the time I had (rush)built my second colonizer and explored 1 sector to the galactic East, I met up with the Drengin who, by this time, had colonized 4 planets and were sending an armada of 4 more colonizers my way.
Maybe the AI does not cheat, but it must have some pretty amazing economy wizards and some expert welders, straight out of an E.E.Smith novel maybe (who can build 1 superdreadnought in the backyard in 2 weeks, using only 5 tin cans, 3 pairs of shoelaces and 1 gizmo).

-Peter

~SDC~

See my new thread on leapfrog!

~SDC~