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CBS Hoaxed?

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Draginol
Lee1776
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #26 September 10, 2004 1:10:27 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
CrispE

If you say no, then you are saying they should not report what they believe is legitimate news.


That’s just it, they think it is legitimate news. For them, it does not matter if they have suspicions about the authentification of the documents. They really think it's true, so they ran with it anyway. Some people have been so blinded by their own convictions, that they no longer care if it’s true or not.

It is just getting sad when people get that far.

Because I could not think of any other reason short of a Republican conspericy, but I don't think Dan Rather (as librial as he is) would be that dumb.
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Draginol
FreeMark
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #27 September 10, 2004 1:12:54 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
CrispE,

The real question is did CBS think the documents were authentic or did they bother to check and just ran with it? They say they have experts who looked at it, but as far as I know that haven't produced those experts. I don't know how long it took for someone to raise questions about this on the Internet but it was pretty fast. As far as I know they haven't answered those questions. They haven't brought their experts up to answer them.

I think D's bias claim is that it seems like they went all silly to get this story out and they haven't bothered to touch the Swiftboat story. If there immediate assumption is that the Nat. Guard story is authentic and that the Swift Boat story isn't then that is bias.
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Draginol
Lee1776
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #28 September 10, 2004 1:24:29 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
It will be a multi-pronged blistering attack consisting of some or all of:
Karl Rove set us up
CBS made the mistake not us
The documents might be fake but when still KNOW that Bush was AWOL


This proves my point in #26, Thanks FreeMark
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Draginol
CrispE
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #29 September 10, 2004 1:36:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Lee1776:

So, it is not, in your opinion, legitimate news that Bush's commanding officer had these feelings about Bush? Note, it is not a campaign issue to me, but it is news. It seems to contradict Bush's statements to Russert last winter to some extent. I think it qualifies as news.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #30 September 10, 2004 1:42:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Dan Rather has lost it, frankly, and that was pretty apparent to anyone who watched the 2000 election.

"that Bush's commanding officer had these feelings about Bush?"

According to the man's wife, he didn't have those feelings at all. So, who's word do you take? Idiotic on the whole, and just shows how most of these "news" shows are no different than cable news opinion shows, but have been working in the guise of hard news for decades. Wasn't there a Libertarian that claimed he had been ousted from 60 minutes or one of the others because he wasn't liberal enough?

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Draginol
Lee1776
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #31 September 10, 2004 2:01:50 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
No CrispE it is not legitimate news, in my opinion.

The family and co-workers of the commander was never asked about files or the commander's opinion of Bush by CBS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html

Yes, this contradicts Bush's statement, but that does not make it legitimate. If their is no evidence to this news story it is not a news story at all, it is an Op-Ed piece, not legitimates news. This falls into the same area as the LA Times making their front page an Op-Ed piece. Or some of the news found in the Enquires.

Just because someone makes up a Theory (Kerry Camp is doing this left and right) does not make it legitimate news or true.

Hay, Clinton is really an alien. I have documentation saying he is from a doctor who operated on him 30 years ago and had who had past away 5 years ago. Who cares if the doctor never said anything about it and the documents looks suspicious. Let’s not even ask friends or co-workers about the documents.
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Draginol
sandy2
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #32 September 10, 2004 2:12:55 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I agree with CrispE. Also, if CBS thought it was true, then they should defend that. What difference does it make anyway. Bush most likely did what is being said, considering he was the son a prominent person. Who cares though? He skipped national gaurd duty. He didn't want to go to war. I don't blame him. His parents didn't want him to go to war. I don't blame them either. Stop these nonsense military service attacks, especially the absurd, false and without-merit ones.
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #33 September 10, 2004 2:18:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums


Reply #32 By: sandy2 - 9/10/2004 2:12:55 PM
I agree with CrispE. Also, if CBS thought it was true, then they should defend that. What difference does it make anyway. Bush most likely did what is being said, considering he was the son a prominent person. Who cares though? He skipped national gaurd duty



There is NO proof that he skipped guard duty!
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Draginol
sandy2
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Reply #34 September 10, 2004 2:21:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Bush most likely did what is being said, considering he was the son a prominent person


I'm saying people are accusing him of doing such a thing, which I personally believe it is likely he did, but that it doesn't matter if he did or not.

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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #35 September 10, 2004 2:23:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #34 By: sandy2 - 9/10/2004 2:21:33 PM
Bush most likely did what is being said, considering he was the son a prominent person


I'm saying people are accusing him of doing such a thing, which I personally believe it is likely he did, but that it doesn't matter if he did or not.


Actually it "does" matter to some of us!
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Draginol
sandy2
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Reply #36 September 10, 2004 2:27:16 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually it "does" matter to some of us!


He has been our president for 4 years already. How can this affect your decision whether to vote for him or not? We already know what kind of leader he is. We already know whether he is honest or not.
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Draginol
Abanamore
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Reply #37 September 10, 2004 2:27:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
[Quote]Democrates claim the forged documents was a Republican set up.

So CBS had nothing to do with it's content, because they got the info from someone else.

CBS is responsible for their own actions. And lazy reporting due to extreme bias IS their fault
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Draginol
historyishere
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #38 September 10, 2004 2:48:42 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Or lazy reporting because it would be a scoop....
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Draginol
Lee1776
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Reply #39 September 10, 2004 3:08:10 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
He has been our president for 4 years already. How can this affect your decision whether to vote for him or not? We already know what kind of leader he is. We already know whether he is honest or not.


Sandy

I agree that this will not change yours or my vote. What I don't like is people (Kerry, Edward, McCleif ect....) screaming at the top of their lungs "See, See, he is a Liar, Liar, Liar" because of this. But the people, who do not listen to all the info, will believe them. It is sad that a person who wants to be President of the United States would be saying things like that so quickly.

Kerry wants to talk about the issues, but the only thing I here from him is Liar and not much else. President Bush came forward and simply said Kerry should be proud of his serves and praised it, but he has not kept digging the hole bigger.
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Draginol
CrispE
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #40 September 10, 2004 3:08:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
drmiler:

So, you would vote for Kerry if you thought Bush had skipped out on duty? Is that correct?
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Draginol
sandy2
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Reply #41 September 10, 2004 3:12:05 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Kerry wants to talk about the issues, but the only thing I here from him is Liar and not much else. President Bush came forward and simply said Kerry should be proud of his serves and praised it, but he has not kept digging the hole bigger.


I agree that kerry is not running a very good campaign. Maybe Clintons help will straighten it out.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #42 September 10, 2004 4:10:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The DNC has hopped on the bandwagon, too,. This was old news when Bush was running for Governer. How utterly hypocritical that when Kerry's service is attacked they condemn it, accuse Bush of "collusion", and now basically mirror the efforts of "Texans for Truth", a smear 527 no different than Swift Boat Vets.
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Draginol
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #43 September 10, 2004 5:05:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

If the documents were authentic (and I can't tell because I used to type on a selectric that I did lots of "tricks" with like superscripts by releasing and repositioning the paper) are you saying CBS (or the media in general) should not have run the story?

I am saying they should not have run the story even if the documents were accurate. They ignored the Swift Boat allegations completely and some of their allegations were true and deserved some deeper look at. Whereas, CBS apparnetly so badly wanted to tar Bush that they were gullible enough to buy into this obvious hoax.

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Draginol
sandy2
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Reply #44 September 10, 2004 5:31:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
No. CBS wanted to report new news that got attention and imporved their ratings. Thats their job.
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #45 September 10, 2004 5:44:16 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I am not sure how Tom Harken's incompetence (or CBS's for that matter) taints the Kerry campaign.


Good. That means the SwiftBoat Vets haven't tainted Bush's campaign. Whew... that had me worried there for awhile.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #46 September 10, 2004 6:22:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Democrates claim the forged documents was a Republican set up.


I personally blame the Jews for this one!

So, you would vote for Kerry if you thought Bush had skipped out on duty? Is that correct?


This isn't going to change anybody's opinion, just like it won't change anybody's mind if the allegations by the Swift Boat Veterans were true. However, if the allegations made by the SBVs are false, then there'll be many people out there criticizing the ad as well as Bush's campaign for having a lawyer in it who assisted the SBVs. The ad will even be parodied on the Daily Show and other shows.
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Draginol
CrispE
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #47 September 10, 2004 6:44:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Daiwa:

Well, I think Draginol said it best when he complains that the media reporting gets a free pass on choosing stories. The only thing about 60 Minutes is that it is not a news programs per say but a magazine which doesn't purport itself to be complete. But, depending on the "expected" ratings stories are run or not run. A few years ago when the cigarette "insider" story broke and how CBS caved to the smoking lobby it should have been obvious that advertisers exert huge influence on programming.

As for the Swift Boat Vets and other 527 advertising....my only comment there is that Bush was saying he was trying to find a legal way to stop all 527's. Is Bush responsible for not pursuing this?
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #48 September 10, 2004 7:13:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #40 By: CrispE - 9/10/2004 3:08:18 PM
drmiler:

So, you would vote for Kerry if you thought Bush had skipped out on duty? Is that correct?


Nope! I would be one of those who didn't vote at all!
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #49 September 10, 2004 8:00:58 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually, it is a coincidence of remarkable degree that using the default margins and font size (TNR 12pt) of an Office Word New Document Template duplicates the typography of the alleged memo so closely. You should try it - kinda fun. And I no longer accept as plausible the Kos argument that the Word document was "shrunk" to 400 pixels or whatever to force it to match or overlay. The only detail that doesn't quite fit is the "th" in 187th. The letters don't extend above the topline of the numerals in the Word document, whereas they do in the CBS-released document. Best I can tell, you can't modify the size or positioning of ordinals separately in Word - just turn the autoformat feature on or off - so maybe the document was done in a different slightly different font or is a WordPerfect or StarOffice document.

Is it possible that document was typed in 1973? Yes. Is it possible elephants could fly? Yes.

We'll just have to wait for CBS's document experts to come forward - they got some serious splainin' to do. Time will tell if elephants can fly.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #50 September 10, 2004 9:14:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

We'll just have to wait for CBS's document experts to come forward

cbs evening news tonite (9/10) exhibited a document previously released by the whitehouse as part of the official bush service records which very clearly had a similar superscript 'th' (some sort of payroll thing) and rather says there is yet another one dated 1968 that also has that superscript thing.  

like i said on another thread (and crispe mentioned earlier in this one) ibm selectric machines were capable of superscripting like that according to my sister who typed 100s of dissertations using one during the years 1969-1972.   proportional font elements were not terribly exotic. 

aside from those considerations, why did the whitehouse release copies of the same documents without comment once theyd seen them (cbs faxed them to the whitehouse prior to that broadcast).   why no whitehouse denial as to their authenticity?  karl rove took the week off?

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