If you're going to knock someone off in a public place, a silenced gun would be just as effective, and probably be a bit less visible than a FREAKING CROSSBOW!
Without gun control this person would now be dead! I don't think a phone would have stopped bullet, do you?
Bring on gun control so if the worst a criminal has to attack me with are sticks and rocks the world would be a better place.
Open your mind a little...
Australia only got strick gun control after one gun toting nut job killed 35 people (kind of a world record at the time)
The police etc still have guns and so do some crims, butit is now harder for them to get them and for the average mental case almost impossible. How is this a bad thing? Why should guns be avaliable to the average person?
As you have stated I could protect my house with rocks and sticks - no need for a gun plus there is less chance, much much less chance that I'd kill anyone.
Also many criminals have signature weapons - many choose crossbows or wristbows because they're silent, cheap and easier to excuse if caught (I was going to the Renaissance Fair - honest!).
Banning guns won't prevent violent crime, but it will greatly limit the possibility of the most apalling excesses by keeping guns out of the hands of nuts.
EDIT: Looks like Bill and Ted got in first. Meh.
It's also worthwhile to note all the "massacers" in the US that have been prevented by the presense of an armed civilian who has displayed and/or used his firearms to defend the rest...
you said to look at the murder rate in Great Britian. In 1996 (first result in a quick dsearch) in the UK 36 people died in gun related deaths. In the US this was 9,390. In 1992 (next results found) it was 33 to 13,429. How can you possibly suggest that gun control doesn't work?
Paul.
US 8.4 per 100,000
UK 1.97 per 100,000
Paul.
The NRA should tell the truth about themselves - they're the biggest brainwashing agency, ever.
JW
Ims sure theit motto is "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but if we take your guns, no one can ever hurt me".
And Jay Walker, tell that to the people of Cambodia, and the slaves of China and the Jews that were disarmed in Germany.
| Umm I think this shows that they do work and work well. Without gun control this person would now be dead! I don't think a phone would have stopped bullet, do you? Bring on gun control so if the worst a criminal has to attack me with are sticks and rocks the world would be a better place. |
Umm, the guy can thank god (or allah or yahweh) it wasn't a Compound Bow or he would be dead right now, Crossbows lack the penetration power of their bigger cousins such as Compound Bow, Recurve, etc. I have seen a compound bow arrow go through a bucket of sand, while a high-powered rifle bullet did not, also you can find video, like watching the hunting channel a man with a Compound bow dropped a Grizzly with one shot to the forehead right between the eyes.
| US 8.4 per 100,000 UK 1.97 per 100,000 |
Though it still is a bad comparison, the U.S. is larger, has more people, and has more violent criminals period, due to a larger population. Last time I checked people have been killing other people way before guns, Jack the Ripper, I guess you can say, is a criminal who advocates that he is against gun violence. Question though is how will the citizenry revolt or resist against the Government if it ever takes a turn for the worse? Well with no guns than you won't mind martial law and curfews, or going into boxcars to be carted off to camps. Yes, supposedly taking guns off the street reduce crime, and it evidently works in the U.K., but the whole reason somebody stuck that in there so if the Government became an Oppressive regime that the people would not be defenseless, look into the U.S. history behind that Amendment, you can see that the British was trying to institute a no-gun policy on the people of Boston, which is the big reason why we have it, no you can have better Gun Control Laws, but taking away the guns is just not the right decision for the U.S., are you forgetting that most guns in the U.S. are not used for Crime but for Hunting, and Skill Shooting, so we should just take away somebody's pursuit of freedom just because we want to control the guns, I for one am against this, the United States Founding Fathers put that Amendment there for a reason, and the Supreme Court would be hard-pressed to repeal it, after all what in the Constitution goes against it.
Solitair,
You can't say that gun control is the only reason that the UK has less murders than the US. How many gangs to you have roaming the streets of London? How many cities do you have that are as large as even Detroit?
People will kill people if they want to. Murders are committed all the time using other weapons than guns. Knives are a huge problem. Maybe we should outlaw knives? The problem is that there isn't big enough punishment for killing people. Most places in the US do not have the death penalty, and Jail is better than the streets for a lot of these people (at least they get 3 meals a day and a place to sleep).
The second amendment was put in the bill of rights for a reason, and it wasn't so I can put .22" holes in paper at range
| The second amendment was put in the bill of rights for a reason, and it wasn't so I can put .22" holes in paper at range |
I second that and hope it just does not become the case in the United States to let a bill that takes away guns completely pass.
I would set ban line to anything automatic thats larger than regular hand-gun.
Reply #19 By: XX - 9/8/2004 1:09:36 AM I don't want to remove the right to have guns, but there IS limitations. Does it extend to weapons that is designed to kill not just one person, but lots and very quickly? Such as assault weapons? I would set ban line to anything automatic thats larger than regular hand-gun. |
So you would limit ALL semi-automatics? You do realize that "automatic" (which by the way is where real "assault weapons " actually fit.) weapons have been outlawed since the 1930's. This BS that they're feeding you is just feel-good propaganda. The only thing they did was to ban certain weapons on looks alone! If you doubt that go look at the law peraining to them. I mean really what is the difference between a civilian version of the M-14 and the currently sold and "legal" Mini-14 by Ruger. As a gunsmith I can tell you in one word......."NONE"! They both use the "same" loading and firing systems. And they are "both" capable of accepting large magazines. Yet one is legal and one is not??? Why??? Same with the AR-15!
And I "do" hate to be the bearer of bad news but, "any" firearm with even a 10 round clip is more than capable of killing a lot of people "real" quick! Personally I hope their stupid AWB dies in 5 day for all the good it does. BTW the figures that they throw at you saying crime has gone done is BS plain. pure and simple. The firearms crime rate was already on a down turn "before" Clinton signed the AWB! But the anti-gunners point to those figures and say "see, it works"
Here's a quote for ya and I'll even include the link.
"Wednesday, August 25, 2004
Anti-weapon campaign runs on fiction
By JOE WALDRON AND DAVE WORKMAN
GUEST COLUMNISTS
Touring the country in an effort to renew the 10-year-old ban on so-called assault weapons, the numerically challenged Million Mom March has been conducting a campaign built largely on fiction.
As far back as 1988, gun prohibitionists figured they could fool the public into supporting a ban that, as history has shown, has been essentially symbolic. Sixteen years ago, Josh Sugarman with the Violence Policy Center put the campaign in its proper perspective, admitting, "The weapons' menacing looks coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semiautomatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."
Contrary to myth, guns affected by this ban are not machine guns. They fire one shot with each press of the trigger, the same as many shotguns used by duck hunters, or rifles used by big-game hunters.
Another myth pandered by the MMM is that these rifles use "powerful" ammunition. In fact, they are chambered for cartridges that are near the low end of the energy level spectrum, on par with a deer hunter's .30-30 Winchester. That bullets from these guns will penetrate a police officer's protective vest is not a secret, because virtually every centerfire hunting rifle bullet sold today will go through such a vest. Those vests are designed to stop handgun bullets.
Prohibitionists claim that these firearms have no legitimate purpose. Thousands of competitive shooters, who participate in registered matches with these rifles all over the country almost every weekend of the year, would disagree. Most of these guns are suitable for home defense, many are legitimate collector's items and others are used for hunting.
These guns are not the "weapon of choice" among criminals. Studies at both the state and federal levels, both before and after the ban took effect, have shown that so-called assault weapons are used in less than 2 percent of violent crimes.
Anti-gunners note that crime gun traces on the banned firearms have plunged by 66 percent in the past 10 years. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Congressional Research Service say that trace data is not a reliable indicator of guns used in crimes. Such traces are conducted for a variety of reasons, only one of which is to establish the trail of guns actually used in crimes. A significant number of traces are used to track recovered stolen guns.
Ban proponents claim that after the ban expires Sept. 13, U.S. streets will be "flooded" with these guns. The "ban" only placed a freeze on production. Those rifles are still out there, legally for sale -- albeit at premium prices because of all the media hype -- and most of them are in the gun safes and cabinets of law-abiding gun owners. Banning their production did not eliminate them, and had nothing to do with a drop in homicide rates, as, apparently, neither do any other gun control laws.
A damning admission about that came last October from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which released a review of 51 previous "studies" of gun control laws. The conclusion? None of these laws reduced crime, something gun rights activists had been telling the CDC, and the public, for years.
The CDC, in its report, admitted that " ... the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence." That includes gun and ammunition bans, waiting periods, school "zero tolerance" laws, child access/safe storage statutes and licensing or registration laws.
That disclosure was reinforced by the Violence Policy Center's Tom Diaz, who told National Public Radio on March 11, "If the existing assault weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets."
Anti-gunners want to ban guns, period, no matter how they mask it, or how they accomplish it. The Vancouver Columbian recently took them to task for "passing along misleading information" in their effort to eliminate private gun ownership. Apparently, they didn't get the message.
end quote"
link: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/187690_assault25.html?searchpagefrom=2&searchdiff=12
I didn't. I responded to the claim that the murder rate in the UK soared. The UK murder rate is a quarter of the US rate. Gun related deaths is about 1/50th the level. But to focus on your large city and gang issue, London is a large city by American standards (as are birmingham, manchester and glasgow). Yet these cities do not have the gang warfare problems, or the murder rates of US cities. Maybe some of it is cultural, maybe some of it is better policing, but I don't believe this. Nowhere in the UK has a death penalty either, so i don't believe the penalty is a big factor here. No, I think it's fairly self evident that the more lethal the weapons you give people access to the higher the death rate is likely to be.
I should also point out that the UK does ban many types of bladed weapons, including many types of knives. Hunting knives for example are illegal. And look at our crime rates and death rates! It works!
I would like to clarify that this is America's choice, not mine. If you believe your right to have firearms is more important than the proven increase in crime and deaths, that is fine. You're a democracy and how you run yourselves is your choice.
Paul.
I'd like to suggest that if gun control is up for debate then use facts in your arguments rather than emotion.
That some guy got shot with a cross bow and didn't die IS NOT PROOF the gun control does not work.
False statesments that crime in countries that have adopted gun control using a democratic process do not help your cause but have the reverse effect of making it difficult to believe anything else you have to offer.
Statements that most guns in the US are used for sport when the main argument for having them is protection needs some work to make it believeable.
Before guns people got killed. After guns people will get killed. No one would disagree. How many people get killed, now that is what needs to be considered.
I know media in the US can be bias and not fully cover internation affairs in a fair light but everyone here has access to a tool called Google. Use it and LEARN about other cultures and countries. Although guns are a large part of your nation and culture you'll find that that view is not shared by most western cultures. Those that do have laws that are pro gun ownership (Sweden and Switerland come to mind) have a MUCH lower murder rate.
The problem is that we don't have any way of making one-to-one comparisons in this. We can only look at historical trends, and even then there are so many influences that it make sit hard to find root causes. My biggest issue with so-called gun-control is that freedoms, once lost, are difficult to return. Also, violence is not a root cause, it is a symptom. I have no need to go out and commit violence to maintain my standard of living (or even to put food on the table). Our esteemed host has posted a couple of times on the causes and effects of poverty.
I have one question; if you believe that the government oppresses the poor, why are you against giving the poor the ability to fight back?
You know what should be illegal? Cars. Compare the death toll of gun deaths to the death toll of auto accidents:
guns: ~ 14,000 per year
auto accidents: ~ 43,000 per year
what is the percent of emergency room visits involving a gun shot in the US? .2%
Here's a good one- Percent of auto accidents caused by cell phones distracting driver: 6%. Number of deaths due to those cell phone related accidents: ~2,600 per year (Washington Post 2002) and on the rise. Number of accident reports that indicate cell phone distraction for cause of accident? ~330,000 per year.
By the way it looks, cars and cell phones are much more dangerous than guns. Isn't it fun how stats work?
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting and posting on the forums.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!