CrispE

The Dangers of Being "Outfoxed"

The Dangers of Being "Outfoxed"

OR: The Difference Between Editting and Reporting the News...

I attended a recent showing of "Outfoxed" which was billed by those that I had heard speak of it as a left wing attempt at bashing Rupert Murdoch and Foxnews for right wing bias in editting the news to fit the propoganda mechanism that is the current right wing administration. There were descriptions that included "poor quality filming and camera work" as well as "editting issues" that made the film in part unwatchable. However, the film raises several issues that should be considered regardless of your political persuasion because the issue of news reporting is central in a republic to the decision making process of the people.

Thomas Jefferson (who as President received criticsm quite often, sometimes very undeserved) said that the country was better off with a "free press and not a free government" than vice-versa. What Jefferson meant by a free press was that the media that reports the news should take a critical eye to what government did to ensure that the people were getting both sides of the argument the government would present.

Governments have their own information dissemanation methods including spokespeople to voice their own points of view as well as contacts within the "edittorial community" (the talking heads and pundits who bombard us with their opinions of what the personalities of politics are doing). The news organizations then must take pains to scrutinize the information provided as well as digging nto the issues that face us and present us with all sides.

The history of propoganda in the world is full of examples of when the press does not take on the aspect of presenting the public with a well rounded look at issues. Consider PRAVDA in the old Soviet Union. The purpose of PRAVDA was to tell the people that the Soviet Union was the best place in the world, everything was getting better and better and say problems were temporary and that sooner rather than later everyone would be living the good life. All people needed to do was what the government thought was best for them, not question, and accept that their sacrifice was worthwhile.

Is this the argument Outfoxed makes? It certainly takes Fox, fox reporters and producers and personalities (Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Brit Hume) to task for multiple occurences of bias in mixing opinion with news until the line between the two are so blurred that the viewer would be hard pressed to tell where one starts and the other ends. But further, it illustrates the connection between making money by all news organizations and content of broadcasts. This includes the major networks as well as CNN.

Many of you might think (as I did at one time) that CNN was the balance to Fox but this is now in question in my own mind because the methods of "spinning" that Fox is often accused of are widespread on CNN in an attempt to keep advertising dollars that might leave with lower ratings. So, does that mean that the advertisers are really in control of the news media and the ultimate determination of what we see and how we see it?

To answer this you have to ask yourself what the advertisers want you to see. Do they want you to question the government? Is uncertainty in the future to their advantage? Do you buy more stuff when you feel good or unsure?

Personally I think that the smoke and mirrors in the stock market may be the best indication of this. Consider the unemployment rate and the increases we have seen in inflation and unrest and the world and there does seem to be a disconnect between the reality and how the news is portrayed in the media. Questioning by all news sources is muted and we are constantly reminded that the new car, house, and job are just around the corner.

Remind you of anything?

47,310 views 120 replies
Reply #51 Top
The evidence against Mumia is pretty compelling, and, frankly, I haven't seen a credible portrayal of the evidence for his innocence.


If O'Reilly is so sure of his quilt why doesn't he have one of the activists fighting for Mumia come on the show to defend him? There are many heads of state that have called for a new trial. The NAACP has just now joined the fight to help Mumia. O'Reilly dismisses everything in support of Mumia and he hasn't given his supporters much of a chance to speak.

You stand here and want to portray us as being oppressive bigots because we want to be informed if our 13 year old daughter is going to make a decision that WILL affect her the rest of her life.


I never once said I disagreed with the position, I just said they were conservative in nature. Of course I don't think rapists should only get 60 days in jail, parents not be notified of a kid having an abortion or kids being exposed to sexual images at 10 years old. My problem is that the show is expressing these obviously wrong issues day after day. For example, one day he covers how a rapist gets off after 60 days. Next day he talks about how police are being harrassed by the ACLU over profiling. Then he'll cover a story on how a molestor is getting off early. O'Reilly will do this over a few days. Now all these segments could be valid, that's not the point. If there is ever criminal who gets away with something O'Reilly is there to fix it. On the flip side, if an innocent man goes away to jail, or there is a case an obvious case of police brutality (that isn't so publicized) O'Reilly is not there to cover that story. There is a lack of balance. That's my opinion from watching his show. O'Reilly himself may be moderate, but he doesn't show it on his show.

As for me being "Ultra-Liberal". I'm actually pro-life. I've worked on (and will continue to work on cases) where employers are forcing women to take birth control pills and even abortions so they don't have to pay them. Some of these issues are happening in Los Angeles as we speak, but you won't find these stories in the news very much. I've even heard women say they have been offered money to be sterelized. To me, it's not about conservative or liberal, it's about covering issues like these.
Reply #54 Top
I've read this entire thread and have found it to be very interesting.

I still think it boils down, however, to the fact that the mass media are now giving voice to points of view that have had little to no voice for a long, long time. It is true that it's chaos out there now, but media chaos is a good thing, in my view, because it forces us to think for ourselves. Our very constitution evolved during a time of media chaos, which has been the norm for most of our history, actually, mass media having only consolidated significantly during the second half of the last century, roughly from the advent of television through the maturation of the internet & cable. People are now free to punch the remote or turn the dial & listen to any point of view they wish. Having had hegemony over mass media for so long, the left are in a panic over the loss of control over what & how news & opinion are presented, hence things like F9/11 and Outfoxed. The whole "vast right-wing conspiracy" myth was born out of that panic, for that matter.

I have no problem with people having access to multiple points of view, even the opinions of the New York Times and Fox News Channel. If Fox News sells more Miller Lite than CNN or NBC, so be it. And thank God there's a way to get information from television without having to suffer through Dan Blather or Peter Lemmings anymore (Brokaw wasn't so bad - he at least understood WWII).

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #55 Top

I think what we are seeing here is that some people dont' realize how far left they are. And therefore, anyone even remotely in the center is considered a right winger.

Every conservative/liberal position test I"ve taken on this site shows me as being only slightly right of center (the one currently on the home page has me 47% conservative, 40% liberal).  Yet the far left wingers that populate this site think that I'm some hard right winger.  It's no wonder they see O'Reilly as a conservative.

I'm not suggesting that there's anythign wrong with being far left. But what frustrates me, and I'm sure this comes across in my comments, is that the far left seems totally oblivious with how out of touch their views are with the mainstream of America.

Doing a story about showing pornos to 10 year olds being a bad thing is something pretty much all American parents would agree with.  You've got to be pretty far left to consider that "conservative".

Reply #56 Top
If O'Reilly is so sure of his quilt why doesn't he have one of the activists fighting for Mumia come on the show to defend him? There are many heads of state that have called for a new trial. The NAACP has just now joined the fight to help Mumia. O'Reilly dismisses everything in support of Mumia and he hasn't given his supporters much of a chance to speak.


Actually, very few from the left will go on O'Reilly because he doesn't stick with softball questions. Case in point: Rosie O'Donnell had to defy her "handlers" in going on O'Reilly, as they all instructed her not to. I don't know if this is the case with Mumia's defenders, but frankly, neither do you.

I never once said I disagreed with the position, I just said they were conservative in nature.


Parental notification is not a conservative issue; it is a CENTRIST issue. Parental CONSENT (which I personally approce of) is more a conservative issue.

If you are not an ultralib, why do you join with them in categorizing centrist positions as far right?

Reply #57 Top
Yes, but c'mon...if I were to rent pornos for my kids and show it to them and claim it was "sex education", I would be arrested. And yet, when they do the same thing in a school, it's somehow ACCEPTABLE?


Good lord, where the hell was that quality of sex education tapes when I took Sex Ed. in High School and Junior High, all I got to see was something STDs, and inside human anatomy, quite boring videos, not mention they look like they are from a previous generation.
Reply #58 Top
Yes, but c'mon...if I were to rent pornos for my kids and show it to them and claim it was "sex education", I would be arrested. And yet, when they do the same thing in a school, it's somehow ACCEPTABLE?


Ok, I tried to answer this post 3 times last night... but technical issues kept getting in the way. Having never seen the materials in question, I don't know how bad these alleged educational materials are. You know and I know that sometimes one group or another gets it into its mind that something is obscene when upon looking at it, it might be perfectly fine. However, if they are close to being pornographic, then perhaps that is the right angle to take on it.
Reply #59 Top
The concept that a 13 year old could go and get a potentially life-threatening procedure without parental notifications is *insane*. If this were breast augmentation no one would be arguing about it. The standard of law is damn clear on the fitness of people that age to make decisions like that.

To my knowledge there are no completely objective sources of news anymore. All that we can ask now is that they get the facts right, and read through the rest. I have seen gross excesses of opinion even in the wire services, like AP and Reuters.

I think it goes back to people's concept of journalism. When you see it caracatured on TV, it is always the muckraking, investigative reporter ready to bring down the corrupt establishment and wina pulitzer. After that stereotype is widespread enough, people of that mind think that journalism is for them, and we have what we have today. News that is phrased, arranged, and juxtaposed in just the right way to do the most political damage to the people the reporter is upset with.

Reply #60 Top
never seen the materials in question, I don't know how bad these alleged educational materials are.


The issue was actually of people coming in to simulate sex in front of the children. That's a little less grainy than the old sex ed tapes, doncha think? As I said, O'Reilly's position on that topic, at least, is a centrist position, and only looks far right if you're looking at it from the EXTREME left.
Reply #61 Top
I never once said I disagreed with the position, I just said they were conservative in nature. Of course I don't think rapists should only get 60 days in jail, parents not be notified of a kid having an abortion or kids being exposed to sexual images at 10 years old. My problem is that the show is expressing these obviously wrong issues day after day. For example, one day he covers how a rapist gets off after 60 days. Next day he talks about how police are being harrassed by the ACLU over profiling. Then he'll cover a story on how a molestor is getting off early. O'Reilly will do this over a few days. Now all these segments could be valid, that's not the point. If there is ever criminal who gets away with something O'Reilly is there to fix it. On the flip side, if an innocent man goes away to jail, or there is a case an obvious case of police brutality (that isn't so publicized) O'Reilly is not there to cover that story. There is a lack of balance. That's my opinion from watching his show. O'Reilly himself may be moderate, but he doesn't show it on his show.


All I can say that O'Reilly can't cover everything, after all he is not Matt Drudge.
Reply #62 Top
To All:

Sorry, was in transit between Chicago and Toronto today.

Draginol:

Do you really consider O'Reilly a news reporter? As for "fair and balanced"....? Someone who is biased either way is neither. O'Reilly and Hannity are what I call "ratings rats." Same can be said for Scarborough, Matthews, Cooper, and most of the others. But the disturbing part to it all is that what SELLS commercial time is softballing the President and conservatives. Matthews might deserve some consideration for his seemingly new-found liberal bias but MSNBC has what 3 viewers?

Reply #63 Top
CrispE -

By your criteria, there is no such thing as a fair & balanced news reporter. I've yet to hear or see one. As for Draginol considering O'Reilly a news reporter, he's plainly stated he doesn't. Also interesting term "ratings rats" - the left have no problem fluffing their feathers & basking in the glow of good ratings when they get 'em, but when somebody on the right outrates them, they're "ratings rats." How condescending and insulting to us common folk. Not that that's a bad thing.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #64 Top
Oh lord. You have got to be joking. You are against teaching proactive safe sex measures? And renting pornographical films and showing them to your own children would not in any way be illegal.
Reply #65 Top
And renting pornographical films and showing them to your own children would not in any way be illegal.


You are dead wrong there. There are many parents who have had their children seized by the Child "Protective" Services for just such a thing.

Congratulations, sandy, on helping to prove Brad's thesis about most of the left wingers on JU being EXTREME left wing. The fact that you advocate for public schools demonstrating sex in front of the children shows how extreme you are.
Reply #66 Top
I actually consider myself to be fairly moderate, especially with my economic policies, and I do not believe that sex should be demonstrated, just that safe sex should be taught rather than abstinance (which doesn't work), I think people should be told to use condoms and told there are alternatives to sex, but I don't believe it needs to be demonstrated, kids are not stupid they know how to have safe sex. And I do think it is absurd for children to be seized for veiwing pornographical films that their parents allowed them to see.
Reply #67 Top
and I do not believe that sex should be demonstrated,


And this is exactly what I was opposing, and exactly what O'Reilly was opposing. As I said, this particular position of O'Reilly's is a CENTRIST position, not a conservative one. Since this is about the 5th time I've said that (and at least the third with "centrist" in caps), I'm feeling a little like a parrot here. So, to sum up...we agree on this one.

just that safe sex should be taught rather than abstinance (which doesn't work), I think people should be told to use condoms and told there are alternatives to sex,


I disagree that abstinence should not be taught and encouraged. While I am well aware that teenagers will often cave to the pressure to have sex, I don't feel we should accept it as an inevitable, and we should include programs that encourage abstinence as a way of supporting the teenagers that DO choose abstinence (there are some; I know of many cases where peer pressure combined with the acquiescence of parents has caused a teenager to compromise her values; in not a few of those cases, it has had some rather negative effects for the teen down the road). I am tired of seeing virtues mocked simply with the argument of "practicality. Also note, I said INCLUDE abstinence programs, not exclude the other programs. Big difference there.

As for the last sentence of your statement, I agree. I also think it is absurd for a parent to be arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if their teenager is drinking at home.
Reply #68 Top
I also think it is absurd for a parent to be arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if their teenager is drinking at home.


I agree with that too. I would even maybe go as far as to say that any case involving drinking with parent permision under supervision is absurd to try the adult or even the child for.
Reply #69 Top
...for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if their teenager is drinking at home."


and yet it is illegal for teenagers to drink, and it is illegal for adults to give alcohol to teenagers. So anything you do with your kids in your own home is above the law? Molesters will be glad to hear that...
Reply #70 Top
By: CrispE, excellent post on this topic.. Dang it.. I am trying to pull myself away from these threads. It is much to entertaining what I find.

The GOP have all of the airwaves to themselves. There certainly has not been any liberal media for some time now. CNN has some good shows still but it also has leaned to the GOP why? AOL time Warner are donaters to Bush. Looks like this thread has gone off onto another topic let me slip out while I can.
Reply #71 Top
and yet it is illegal for teenagers to drink, and it is illegal for adults to give alcohol to teenagers. So anything you do with your kids in your own home is above the law? Molesters will be glad to hear that...


Uhh, that's a bit of a stretch there, baker.

For the record, in Wisconsin, minors can drink if their parents or guardian are present (if they're really young, they'll get in trouble, but teenagers can even sidle up to the bar WITH THEIR FOLKS). It seems to work out pretty well.
Reply #72 Top

Do you really consider O'Reilly a news reporter?

No. Nor have I said that. He's a news analyst.  O'Reilly doesn't claim to be a news reporter either.  This is why left wingers, particularly ones who, well don't know any better, think FoxNews is biased -- because they confuse the hard news shows for the news analyst shows.  Foxnews doesn't claim to be a CNN Headlines news.  It has 3 prime time shows: O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes, and whatsherfaces' show.  All are news analysts which present a point of view -- that of the hosts.

Reply #73 Top
Draginol:

Well, if O'Reilly and the others aren't news reporters why not call the network "Fox Opinion and Comment"? Because the main thrust of their appeal is they act as if they are reporters and portray themselves as such.

Consider then, the original point I was making: The line between news and opinion has become so blurred that the viewer cannot distinguish between the 2 and so all we have is a mishmash of views. Now, I would say this is occuring because it sells products and the status quo is maintained (conservative policy and government) but regardless of the motivation, the sense that "news" is broadcast unfiltered anywhere on TV is regrettably wrong.
Reply #74 Top
Daiwa:

I would consider liberals and conservatives alike to be "ratings rats" if what they want to do is build an audience based on telling them what the host or panel think they want to hear. This just acts to polarize the public with opinion that doesn't get to the facts and makes the citizens more and more likely to think that American society is more about "who you hate" then "what you like."

For example, many have said that the Republican Convention was mean-spirited and hateful because instead of laying out a vision for the next 4 years speaker after speaker either bashed Kerry or talked about the "Presidential-ness" of Mr. Bush. But what is the Republican's vision for America?

Safer isn't a vision......

No marriage for gays isn't a vision.....

Outlawing abortion isn't a vision....

So....what is the vision?
Reply #75 Top
The line between news and opinion has become so blurred that the viewer cannot distinguish between the 2


This is what is always said when the tide of opinion is running against. And I beg to differ - don't assume what we can and cannot distinguish.

the Republican Convention was mean-spirited and hateful


John Kerry: "All hat, no cattle." 30 minutes after Bush finished his speech. The irony is, that's the perfect description of his Senate career.

I'd love to say the right is best at everything, but the left has set a standard for mean-spiritedness and hate that the right is going to have a very difficult time matching.

Cheers,
Daiwa