Iraqi Soccer Team's Response to Bush Ad

from PolMach Forums
I was watching Bill Maher's show and I couldn't believe how the Iraqi soccer team reacted to Bush's ad that showed them. One guy said he would never thank a baby killer and another player went as far as to say he'd be joining the resistance if he weren't playing soccer. Throughout the Olympics they were portrayed as these guys who were grateful for their "freedom", but their response was different. These guys were tortured by Saddam's brothers, but in the end they hate Bush just the same. With the bombings and sanctions put on Iraq, how could we expect a different response?

I remember the part of Fahrenheit 9/11 when the marine said he would not go back to Iraq and kill other poor people. There was also the part where the mother was standing over rubble that was their home and how she cursed America for causing so much death. I never understood why the "liberal" media ignored the most powerful part of the movie, but I believe they ignored it because it was true. There is never an updated body count of innocent people who have died in Iraq. Since we're sheltered from the all the death and carnage we don't pay attention to its consequences. Imagine if your family was killed in bombing, would you be thankful?
politics
19,659 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from PolMach Forums Top
We always hear the media talking about how many American soldiers have died and Iraq, but they never seem to care to tell us about how many innocent Iraqis have died. American soldiers aren't the only casualties of war.
Reply #2 from PolMach Forums Top
So much for "liberating the people". Is it possible for us to stop wasting money on these folks and concentrate our efforts on those we actually give a cr*p about; the American people?
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Reply #3 from PolMach Forums Top
too late now deference. If the American people are the only ones you give a crap about than you can thank Bush. Bush went into Iraq and completely fucked over a country. Thousands of civlians have died (way more than died on Sept 11 I can tell you that much). And you have the nerve to say we hsouldn't give a crap about them when we are the ones who completely fucked them over, killed their enemies, ruined their water and electric supply, and now their economy is in shambles. Disgusting. American ignorance and arrogance at its best. We should leave and we should leave soon and focus on protecting Americans over selfish lusts for power...however, you can not leave until you fix the mess you made. What are you waiting for? By the way, redneck soldiers sexually abusing male prisoners isn't the best way to get the cleanuip started. You hypocritical sick fags.
Reply #4 from PolMach Forums Top
whoa that was a little uncalled for. I don't think Deference was suggesting we should just forget about the Iraqis. he probably just meant that we should have spent more time and money on America rather than Iraq. There's no need to attack him like that.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
There is never an updated body count of innocent people who have died in Iraq.


The most accurate body count of civilians in Iraq would be at Link
Reply #6 from PolMach Forums Top
Wooow Patrick. Not all people living in America supported this war. You don't see the disenfranchised heard from in the mainstream media, but I hear from them in alternative forms of media. Like spoken word is very good here. Mos Def runs a show on HBO with Russell Simmons and the poets there are given a forum to speak out against the war, and it rocks! Contrary what Bill O'Reilly thought, Moore's movie was very popular. To me, that movie got me mad about the Iraq because of the innocent families that were harmed. If people are exposed to these things, positive change can happen.
Reply #7 from PolMach Forums Top
"Bush went into Iraq and completely fucked over a country. Thousands of civlians have died..."
- citizen patrick E (sorry dont know how to use the quotes)

I find it hard to believe that you could actually believe that Iraq wasnt "fucked up" to begin with. As for the civilians dying, the Hussein regime killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, even trying to commit genocide against the Kurdish population in Iraq. We are talking HUNDREDS of thousands of people here, how many more do you think he would have killed by now if we had not stepped in? Do you honestly think he would stop without our intervention? Just how many of his own people (I'm not even going into the countless people of other nationalities) does he have to kill for us to have reason to stop him? For all of you people that don't agree with the killing of innocent people, the solution is to take the killer out of power. My information (and more) is supported at Link/
Reply #8 from PolMach Forums Top
I find it hard to believe that you could actually believe that Iraq wasnt "fucked up" to begin with.


Is 500,000 dead a big number to you? Because that's how many people died because of sanctions put on Iraq, which is more than what Saddam is responsible for.
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.htm

The death count of civilians killed is said to be over 10,000.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,976392,00.html

Don't take my word for it, Iraqis are telling us everyday what is happening over there. The response of the soccer team pretty much says it all. It's also pretty disgusting to throw out these numbers of the amount of people who have died because of this conflict, but that's what it has come down to for us in the USA. One death is a tragedy, half a million is a statistic. The "liberal" media never talks about the Iraqi lives stolen from the war that started in 1991 and never really stopped with the constant bombings and sanctions.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
What kills me is that a lot of americans seem to think that every iraqi was happy we went in there. A lot of them were, but a lot of them were not. I'm sure the majority of them are glad Saddam is gone, but it's hard to feel grateful to the guys who got rid of him when your house has just been flattened.

Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top
500,000 dead is a big number to me, I'm not arguing about trade sanctions. I'm arguing that Hussein needed to be stopped, and there was no way to do that except to step in. If you look at the website you provided for moreorless Link , then you will see that the other 1.5 million he has killed (including the Iranians- though I originally only discussed Iraqi deaths, I feel that all of his victims should be accounted for) were his fault, not the fault of any sanction. I am in no way saying the sanctions were right, I am saying that the war going on today was needed to stop the crimes being commited by Hussein against his own people and neighboring countries. - response to RATM4EVA's post
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
There is never an updated body count of innocent people who have died in Iraq.



The most accurate body count of civilians in Iraq would be at Link


Please note that even though that page lists those civilian deaths as "due to military intervention," they count insurgent/terrorist attacks on IRAQI POLICE STATIONS as the result of that same "military intervention."
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
To address the article:
My understanding was that it was a portion of the team that felt this strongly against the US occupation of Iraq, not the entire team.
Which sanctions are you referring to? The ones that are now lifted?

I feel that the feelings of Iraqis that want us out of their ASAP is fairly justified. However, those who join "the resistance" against both American/Multinational Forces and the fledgling Iraqi government's security forces are going about this all wrong. They are only prolonging our stay there, with their kidnappings of reporters and bombing of native police stations.
What would be best for all is to join together in cooperation, enstate a new democracy, and have the MNF/US pull out. Isn't that what everyone wants here?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
We always hear the media talking about how many American soldiers have died and Iraq, but they never seem to care to tell us about how many innocent Iraqis have died. American soldiers aren't the only casualties of war.


One last bit... which news media do you read? Most of the articles I've seen list both American casualties and Iraqi casualties, which includes security forces, civilians and insurgents. Take a look at Link in the first paragraph, just as an example.
Reply #14 from PolMach Forums Top
To me, that movie got me mad about the Iraq because of the innocent families that were harmed. If people are exposed to these things, positive change can happen.


Agreed. People can say what they want (and I'm sure some of it is true) about some facts being incorrect in Fahrenheit 9/11, but images of the innocent victims are less easy to fabricate. Weapons with pinpoint accuracy don't do much good when they're aimed at the wrong places. The entire operation wreaks of poor planning. That, along with the fact that this was a war against a crumbling regime that didn't pose a tremendous threat to the U.S. or its own citizens (a lot of the videos of Saddam-ordered killings we see on the news are from before the first Gulf War) definitely makes me see where this soccer team is coming from.
Reply #15 from PolMach Forums Top
this was a war against a crumbling regime


Crumbling? What evidence do you have that this regime was going anywhere without our intervention?
Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top
Oh boy,
I won't even dig deep into some of the fallacies with some people's statistics and beliefs in that we destroyed Electric Plants, and Water Supplies when that stuff was not even functioning before hand.

I read from nbcolympics.com, basically the same article, but it had words from the Iraqi Team Coach, who said that the Athletes were baited into answering questions a certain way.
I.E. Someone asking you do you support some guy who is killing babies in your country to air this ad, etc.
The Coach even stated that the reporters should not have done such a thing to the Iraqi Soccer team, as most of the players are not to politically savant. This is just the a case of bad reporters, who took a biased opinion, exploited these soccer players and tried to capitalize on it.

F.Y.I. Most Iraqi cities if not all, do not have indoor plumbing, and excellent working Power Plants, considering only one group of people were allowed such luxuries, Saddam and his group, and to state otherwise is completely ludicrous. (Want further proof? Talk with U.S. or any nation's soldiers over there and ask them the conditions of Iraqi citizens, before work began on reconstruction.)

I like Rage Against The Machine, pity though that they broke up.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Agreed. People can say what they want (and I'm sure some of it is true) about some facts being incorrect in Fahrenheit 9/11, but images of the innocent victims are less easy to fabricate.


So, rather than try to justify the war with false claims, Bush should have simply showed video footage of Iraqis being oppressed. Then everybody opposing the war would have supported it.

Reply #18 from PolMach Forums Top
One last bit... which news media do you read? Most of the articles I've seen list both American casualties and Iraqi casualties, which includes security forces, civilians and insurgents. Take a look at Link in the first paragraph, just as an example.


Ummm... MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, ABC...
I mean if you compare the times they update the soldier death toll to the civilian, it's a bit obscure and I'm talking about TV. Many foreigners point out how American deaths are much more politicized than anyone else's.

the Iraqi Team Coach, who said that the Athletes were baited into answering questions a certain way.


Their words were pretty direct...

"Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign"
"How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?"
"The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"
"I want to defend my home. If a stranger invades America and the people resist, does that mean they are terrorists?"

Sports Illustrated Article:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0819-05.htm

If the USA is really preaching democracy and freedom in Iraq, shouldn't their voices be heard here? We can argue about if the war was good a good idea, but the people living their are telling you what THEY think about what is going on.
Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
You still missed the point RATM4EVA, and that is they were BAITED into answering.

'However, the Iraqi Olympic delegation accused journalists of deliberately provoking an angry response from their players..' - From the Article, Check it OUT (Click Here).
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5795484/ <-Second Article more from the Iraqi Coach
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5818725/ <- Article about USOC (Olympic Committee) on Bush's Ad

I do apologize for further re-reading the articles, and the misquoted the Iraqi Coach's position, and I believe the ad was wrong in that the fact that the Bush Campaign did not ask Olympic Comittee to use the term "Olympic", etc., which the committee is supposed to remain neutral from politics, so a bad decision on an advisor to Bush, not the intent, but the execution.

Only reason I cite asking for views form Soldiers from other countries was to give a you a definition of how bad the conditions were in comparision to their own, i.e. no indoor plumbing, no A/C, etc.

Truth be told either way this was a nasty case, either Saddam was left to be as his Tyrannical self or desposed out of power, which no other way but force for him. Problems are arising from insurgents and soldiers fighting with civilians getting caught in the crossfire, which is the very nature of war. War is hell, but was it good for (cough "Science, Communication, Medicine, etc." - War by Laibach) besides a way for someone to change someone else's viewpoint when talking and diplomacy has broken down.

I would love for Democracy to be everywhere, but alas that can not be the case, because of hegemony in tyrannical nations.

Though SI should not even had politicized the Olympics, shame on them, does that mean we can expect POLITICS in the Men's World Cup 2006 in Germany, I hope not, I am sure that makes Pele angry. Soccer is not about Politics and shame on both sides for putting it there. Futbol, Football, Soccer, etc. it's a sport that is worldwide, and should be a sport that no matter who is playing who (i.e. Iran vs. Israel, US vs China, etc.) politics and the likes do not belong on such an honored sportsfield, though I am biased about this because I am a former Soccer player, former Soccer Ref, and Longtime fan of Soccer. Heck, there is even a story I saw on the History Channel about during the first Christmas there was a short peace and the two sides played a soccer game, though it was the officers who called that off and started the fighting again. This is another case of Politics invading another place where it does not belong, if we don't stop that invasion now, it will be lost to Political whimsy.

On USA and it's preaching of Democracy, don't forget past examples of US helping to make Democratic nations, Panama is a good example, innocent people where killed and parts of cities flatten to oust Manuel Noriega, but now Panama is doing a bit better, Democracy takes time, and innocent lives will be lost as long as people still believe in the right to rule of others by force, and not by vote.

Feel free to pick this a part, if I have a chance to check back I will respond, though I will try my darnedest, heh heh (Cowboy reference word) to be truthful and honest in my opinions, but as a human I can mess up from time to time.

What is your favorite RATM song, mine was and still is Killing In The Name Of.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
(why is it that the ones least informed on these things or say the most disgusting vile things such as what Patrick say are always on the left?)
Reply #21 from PolMach Forums Top
killing in the name of is good, bombtrack is another good one, bullet in the head as well as how i could just kill a man are also classics
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Timely that I read this comment, I have just finished watching a documentary about the reactions of Iraqi people, and pretty much the comments were the same. Most went like this, "We appreciate the effprts of the Coalition forces in getting ride odf Saddam, however, that was last year, they are still here, so now they are the occupiers, they are the new oppressors", or "if they wish to rebuild our country and give us freedome, then stop telling us what to do and help us rebuild". The point I am trying to make is that these people do acknowledge the efforts of the US and its allies, however they are now mistrustfull of us because we re just repeating what has been their histroy since first Europeans turned up in the 19th century. Anyone who understands the history of these people will know that they have been occupied by and ruled by one European puppet government or another for more than a century, so this to them would be "here we go again". So who can really blame them.

One interesting point though is that with all the might of the Coalition we still could not do what an old cleric could do and stopp a war in two cities.............and they need us for what.
Reply #23 from PolMach Forums Top
I don't think politics should be seperated from sports if the athletes wish. Ali used boxing to let the world know what blacks were going threw, Corky Gonzalez used it to do the same for Chicanos in the USA. When John Carlos raised his fist in Mexico, it was a powerful moment.

As for the soccer players saying what they said, they said what they said even if their spokesman said they were baited. It seemed pretty authentic to me. I take what they said seriously even if they aren't politically adept. They live in Iraq and they are living the experience we only hear about in the media.

I think democracy has become a jingo word which gets spun around. If you ask me, I think there are some neighborhoods here that could use more democracy. That's why a lot of the alternative media can be a bit more lefty, like Rage Against the Machine.

What is your favorite RATM song, mine was and still is Killing In The Name Of.


Heh, I didn't think anyone here knew what my name meant. My fav is Sleep Now in the Fire when they played it on Wall Street.
That video rocks!
Reply #24 from PolMach Forums Top
(why is it that the ones least informed on these things or say the most disgusting vile things such as what Patrick say are always on the left?)


That is not true. The left does not have a monopoly on ignorance. David Duke was ill-informed and said vile things. So did Hitler. Rush Limbaugh has had his moments. All three would be pretty far right.

The truth is, both sides have supporters who are ill-informed and impolite.
Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
US History with wars, take for example Germany during World War II, the U.S. did a little known thing to most, but they firebombed the city of Dresden to create a firestorm killing innocent people by fire or suffocation, because the firestorm sucks oxygen out of the area, to test this method of bombing and effectiveness. When it was seen how successful it was, the U.S. also used on a Japanese city.
Long time ago left the war that only involved two sides and no innocents. Watching an episode of Case Closed, came across a little insightful thing, the painting of a Knight slaying a demon, at first you think he is a hero, but when you look into further, he has been stained with blood, and will be forever stained in his heart, which became the very thing in which he tried to kill, a heart of a demon, the true essence of war, I think.

Yes, the players said some good things, but I still would like to know the questions, and the reasons why they try upset them even more than they already were, they were there to play a game, and already upset about their nation.

Politics may be good in other sports, but soccer is one in which it does not belong, put it in basketball or others, soccer needs to remain neutral, or else a match between Iraq and Israel, China and USA, etc. would never happen because of politics, soccer has enough trouble with rowdies, which the disease has now spread to China's Soccer fans. Let the players say whatever when the competition is over, but nothing should be said about the other team period. A Team is not responsible for the actions of their country. Ack damn it, I am rambling on again, have tendency to do that. Over and Out for now.