Draginol Draginol

Why Bush may not get my vote

Why Bush may not get my vote

7 problems I have with Bush

I am what you would call an undecided voter.  But it's really more complicated than that since the choice for me isn't whether I would vote for Bush or Kerry but rather will I vote for Bush or not.  There is no way I'll vote for Kerry.  But that doesn't mean I'm willing to vote for Bush.  Unlike many neophyte ideologues, I don't imagine the end of the world coming simply because the "other guy" gets elected. Therefore, the side I tend to be more sympathetic to doesn't automatically get my vote.

I've read on-line where people think I'm some sort of Bush supporter simply because I support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan.  That's not the case.  I do find a great deal of amusement seeing the way Bush somehow turns his left-wing opponents into raving lunatics. Never in my lifetime have I seen the opposing party of someone become so hysterical. Most Americans are fairly ignorant on US history, what makes the left unique is that they try to claim an intellectual high ground even as they demonstrate their complete ignorance.  To history buffs, the spazzing about whether we should have gone into Iraq or not comes across as bizarre.  Just to recap, here is a link to a list of wars the US has been in and why we went in.

My two favorites have to be the Mexican American war, where we conquered Mexico (culminating with the capture of Mexico City) on the justification that we really really wanted their land. At least things were more straight forward back then. But the best one of all has to be the US war against Spain in 1898 where we declared war on Spain because one of our ships in Havana harbor blew up (turned out it was due to an accident on the ship).  That's it. That was the justification. Over 2,000 Americans died in that "war" and that was over a century ago when the US population was much smaller. No hysteria then. No anti-war protesters. No calls for impeachment. No international condemnation.

So seeing melodramatic articles about Bush and "casualties in Iraq" asserting that Bush is the worst President in US history or that he should be impeached or whatever just strike me as evidence that George W. Bush has a super power: He makes left wingers look nuts.

But like I said, having a low opinion of hysterical left wing rantings doesn't automatically make me a Bush fan. So let me tell you the problems I have with Bush:

1) Economic irresponsibility.  I really don't like deficit spending. I can live with it as long as I feel like the government is taking its spending seriously. But the pork has been record breaking.  Huge farm subsidies, huge increases in spending for both the EPA and dept of health and human services show that a) He doesn't take spending seriously and b) He's politically naive. Even at the time I was shaking my head knowing that even with these increases he wouldn't gain anything since Republicans automatically get tarred for being anti-poor and anti-environment regardless of the facts.

2) Incredibly inarticulate.  Every time he holds a press conference I cringe. I keep waiting for him to say something stupid. "Given the choice between trusting a mad man or defending America I will choose to defend America every single time!"  Ack. Who writes this stuff? You may not like Clinton but his intelligence was apparent and he really understood many of these issues even if he didn't do what I would have liked him to do.  Is it really asking so much to have a President who behaves as if he has a clue? Look at Tony Blair, regardless of what you think about him, he comes across as supremely knowledgeable.

3) Messing with the constitution. If the choice boils down to accepting gay marriage or messing with the constitution I'll choose to accept gay marriage. It makes me think that Bush is the same kind of fanatic who would have pushed through the prohibition amendments.  The constitution isn't a political toy. It's the closest thing I have to a secular religion. Don't screw with it over something pidly like this.  And yes, I'm aware of the full faith and service clause.

4) Crazy Projects.  What the hell was the whole Mission to Mars thing about? Here we're running record deficits and he's talking about going to Mars? Meanwhile, he proposes killing the Hubble Space telescope. Hello?

5) Afraid of leveling with us.  All the spastic left wingers who are, to some degree of success, able to retroactively claim that we went into Iraq to confiscate stockpiles of WMD would never be able to make that case if Bush had been more clear about why we went in.  We went in because a) We believed (correctly) that Saddam had WMD PROGRAMS (not stockpiles). b) That he was a declared enemy of the US in a region where we could no longer tolerate one and c) After 9/11, there was no way we were going to let Saddam stay in place to wait out the sanctions.  But Bush made a great deal of noise about nerve gas and other things. Nobody who supported the war gave a crap about chemical weapons.  We wanted Saddam gone because after 9/11 we could imagine very plausible scenarios where 5 to 10 years down the line in a post-sanctions Iraq that Saddam would either be practicing nuclear blackmail or covertly supplying terrorists with WMDs.  I didn't want my children having to deal with that.  But Bush, because of issue #2, couldn't manage to coherently put that together leaving a gaping hole for the leftbots to spew their latest reason for being against the war (because, you know, they would have been totally for going in if we had found mustard gas stockpiles in Iraq...NOT).

6) Totally incompetent post-war handling in Iraq. I don't care if it was Bremer's decision to decommission Iraq's army. It was still incredibly foolish. How does someone with such a basic management failing get into that position in the first place? If you walk into a corporation that needs to be rebuilt, you don't fire everyone and rehire from scratch. You reorganize it. This isn't complicated stuff.

The whole occupation was poorly run from start to finish. From a PR point of view, US troops should have totally secured Baghdad even if the hinterlands were less secure.  Want proof? Do you think Afghanistan is some sort of cosmopolitan land of peace now? Of course not. But the occupation has seemed a lot more successful because Kabul, where all the press are, is reasonably secure.  If you listen to the news, you'd think Iraq was some bloody quagmire.  As of June 21, we've lost 619 soldiers due to combat.  That includes the actual war and the subsequent year + occupation. In that time, nearly as many people in Washington D.C. have been murdered.  That doesn't make things any less tragic but Iraq isn't particularly bloody. 

But because reporters have seen so much violence because the Bush administration hasn't locked down Baghdad this perception has been allowed to grow. Sorry but if you can't control elementary perception, you're too inept to be President.

7) I'm not sure where he's hoping to go next.  What's the plan? War on terror? What next? Domestic policy? Whatcha gonna do?

So there's 7 reasons off the top of my head that Bush needs to deal with before I'll vote for him.  If he doesn't make a good on some of these, he won't get my vote.  I'll either vote for a minor candidate or not at all.  I know quite a few people in that boat with me and the result has been Kerry's gradual lead as mixed ideologists such as me, who are generally more sympathetic to Republicans than Democrats, migrate off the reservation.

Next: Why Kerry won't get my vote.

26,507 views 48 replies
Reply #26 Top

"justification that we really really wanted their land. At least things were more straight forward back then." We should have made it a state.

"That's it. That was the justification. Over 2,000 Americans died in that "war" and that was over a century ago when the US population was much smaller. No hysteria then. No anti-war protesters. No calls for impeachment. No international condemnation." I guarantee you there would have been if the media were as today.

"As of June 21, we've lost 619 soldiers due to combat.  That includes the actual war and the subsequent year + occupation. In that time, nearly as many people in Washington D.C. have been murdered.  That doesn't make things any less tragic but Iraq isn't particularly bloody." Yeah, and were the troops not safely in Vietnam, it was a sure thing they would have died on the highways.

"So there's 7 reasons off the top of my head that Bush needs to deal with before I'll vote for him." I don't get it. Compromisiing your values for a candidate that could conceivably handle these issues better is nothing to be ashamed of.

Reply #27 Top

We lost around 60,000 troops in Vietnam in combat deaths.  We're at 1% of that figure in Iraq and the war is already over, we're in the occupation phase (btw, Americans died in Germany during the occupation there too, not in significant quantities but they did die).

I agree, the media today is so ideological that it's a complete opposite of what it was a century ago (which was equally bad but different). I'd go for a media that simply tries to report the facts rather than blatantly trying to jam its own agenda down our throats.

As for "compromising" my values, I'm willing to overlook a lot of things.  I'm pro-choice on abortion, for instance.  At some point, a candidate passes a threshold in which you can no longer support them. Presently, Bush is over that threshold.

Reply #28 Top
Personally, I'm not bothered by a politician making a speech on an aircraft carrier.

What are you refuting here?


I am refuting the idea that international cooperation brings safety. Nazi Germany is the classic example of how pacifist diplomacy made a bad situation worse.

I have put forward an argument to justify the Iraq war on my blog. The short version is this:

1. The sanctions against Iraq needed to be lifted.
2. Saddam in charge of an Iraq with no sanctions would pose an unacceptable security risk.
3. The only way to remove Saddam from power is through the use of force.
Reply #29 Top
why vote bush. has kerry done any of the disgusting things bush has done. kerry is better because how far can we fall, at least picking kerry is a different chance. if bush is in, we keep falling. at least its something better. My views are not all democrat. i agree alot with nader but i am desperate to get bush out. kerry has programs that we ougth to give him a chance. bush abused his chance. why after bush's discriminatuing, allowing the patriot act and very anti gay and is confused and caused 9/11. if gore won, we wouldnt complain. 2 towers would be standing, pentagon would be ok. iraq and soldiers would still be walking this planet. Bush executed 152 people as governor and mimicked a person who was begging for their life is disgusting. i know saddam was disgusting, but bush planned the war before 9/11. used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war. i dont know why people think kerry is so evil, dont know why. Also bush's brother jeb bush had a list of convicted felons on a list who were all democrats. cnn looked at it and usually 47% is hispanic that vote republican in florida.. only 61 were hispanic and there were either 45000 people or 4500 people on the list. 61 does not equal 47%. he took most hispanics off cause they were republican. so he tried to get democratic felons not vote because they were democrats and he wants bush to win. its disgusting. luckily he let the people on the list vote now thanks to cnn. anyways, why vote bush, he created terrorism issue and we are not safer. remember the pics of kerry at an anti vietnam rally? well republicans put his face in when he really wasnt there just to make kerry look stupid. the republican party has gone crooked and needs help. our country needs help. so kerry at least gives us a chance for us to live better. kerry thinks abortion should be rare, but thinks people have a choice and the government is blocking that from women. its disgusting. we need stem cell research that may cure cancer and aids and many diseases that we need help with. but bush claims to be a good christian. i didnt know that meant to prevent life. save lives people. And we need a 3rd party to be big. like nader said the system is rigged and it is. but kerry at least gives us a chance. people we need that chance instead of having a limited life. and bush refused to visit the naacp which was not right. anyways, people, you have to realize we need a better future and we need better education, jobs,health care. the economy is not going up. dont believe everything you hear and especially on the news. kerry gives us at least a turning point to a better future instead of going down the same road. bush had his chance, it's kerry's time now. I urge you whoever is 18 or over, vote Kerry/Edwards in 04.
Reply #30 Top
if gore won, we wouldnt complain. 2 towers would be standing, pentagon would be ok. iraq and soldiers would still be walking this planet. "


are you serious?

"anyways, why vote bush, he created terrorism issue and we are not safrer."


you can't be serious...

"kerry thinks abortion should be rare, but thinks people have a choice and the government is blocking that from women."


Any proof to that effect? Could you name one instance where the Bush administration did anything that prevented a woman from getting an abortion?

and bush refused to visit the naacp which was not right.


After the chairman of the organization likened Republicans to Nazis. He doesn't deserve my spit, he's a racist pig.

dont believe everything you hear and especially on the news.


And yet you keep spouting the same tired things I keep hearing over and over, most of it you apparantly misunderstood. I don't see anything that you came up with in your post. Where do you get it if not from what you "hear" or in the news? Are you positive you are old enough to vote?

so he tried to get democratic felons not vote because they were democrats and he wants bush to win.


You realize that it is illegal for felons to vote in some states, right?

Come on. At least TRY and tell the truth. This is where Democracy can go really, really wrong...
Reply #31 Top
I am responding to Bakerstreet.


1st, Clinton knew about al qaeda and he told bush before he entered office. gore would have done everything to prevent it where bush did nothing at all. Bush used iraq to be terrorists and there he created the issue where we would not have terrorism an issue if gore was in.

2: "kerry thinks abortion should be rare, but thinks people have a choice and the government is blocking that from women."

Kerry said this on Larry King Live that abortion should be rare but people have a choice to get one. Bush was against choice, its a known fact.

3: NAACP stands up for colored people especially when he is losing the colored people vote by a lot. he can at least visit once in the last 4 years.

4: i said dont believe everything cause the news lies and not all news lies. im talking about mainstream news. but dont think everything you hear is false. there is truth in some places.

5: These were felons who served their time and had theyr rights back then taken away cause they were democrats.


I dont think you have been paying attention or looking anything up.
Reply #32 Top
am refuting the idea that international cooperation brings safety. Nazi Germany is the classic example of how pacifist diplomacy made a bad situation worse.
Those who believe in war always come back to that example, and for good reason -- that it is an exception. However, my point is not to disagree with you, it is to say that this argument you are making needs to be made explicitly by those leaders who believe in that course of action. The opposite point needs to be made by the liberals.

Such a dialogue would bring back democratic decision making to our country. The first part of that is that the majority would get their way. The second part is that the victors would have stated principles, upon which they could be judged.

Although I personally side with the liberals in the current situation, I am much more concerned that the political battle is fought with images, not with reasons. The result is that the losing side is reduced to hysteria, regardless of which side loses.
Reply #33 Top
dubz:

  1. There were numerous Al Quaeda attacks against Americans and their interests during the Clinton Administration. They crippled the ability to gain intelligence about them and their softness was what led to the 9/11 attack. Bush hadn't been in office for a year and the attack had been planned much further ahead than that.
  2. Bush hasn't blocked anyone from getting an abortion. You said they were blocking that from women.
  3. The NAACP likened Republicans to nazis, and called us the American Taliban. Many, many NAACP members are even embarassed by this kind of behavior, and the organization doesn't deserve the legitimacy the President would lend it by visiting.
  4. The mainstream news at least has standards. The shit you are spouting is mostly fiction. If you got this from an "independant" site it isn't serving you well.
  5. FELONS OF ANY RACE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE IN SOME STATES, REGARDLESS OF RACE. Maybe you'll understand it in caps...


I don't think you need to be telling me anything about "looking things up".

Reply #34 Top
Bakerstreet: Why waste time on someone like that? I mean, he's claiming that the two towers would still be standing if only Gore had won.  Where does one go from there? He's completely out of his mind.
Reply #35 Top
I know, I know. I'm easily amused, lol...
Reply #36 Top
so many republicans here.
Reply #37 Top
so many republicans here.


Well, there's BakerStreet. I think he's a Republican, although I'm not postive. As for everyone else, I'm really not sure.

What there is a lot of here are people that are not willing to put up with idiocy. Hell, the title of this article is "Why Bush May Not Get My Vote", by Draginol... does those sound like the words of a diehard Republican?
Reply #38 Top

Ah CS Guy, remember, if you're not a far left wing fanatic, you're a Republican.

You either KNOW, for a fact mind you, that had election not been stolen from Gore that 9/11 would never have happened and there'd be no terrorism.  OR you're a Republican.

Reply #39 Top
*sigh*

Now why would anyone think I am a Republican? I belong to the "Anyone but a Democat" party.

If I had to pin myself down to a philosophy, I'm a Stoic. We haven't had a candidate quite some time, though...
Reply #40 Top
Now why would anyone think I am a Republican?


I was just guessing. I haven't seen too many people here admit that they are a Republican. In fact, I can't think of any.
Reply #41 Top
I was kidding. I can't imagine not voting Republican, so I guess I would count.
Reply #42 Top
I haven't seen too many people here admit that they are a Republican. In fact, I can't think of any.


What a clever ruse to draw us out into the open. "Aw shucks," he twanged through buck-teeth while leaping from his protective cover; "we're all over here!" Now what happens?

Anyway, I've "admitted" more than once to being a Republican. Considering how this site is constantly being derided as being "right wing" isn't it assumed that we are all card carrying members of the GOP?

Personally, I'd rather not vote for Bush, either. (Didn't vote for him the first time.) I may have to "protest" vote. *SIGH*
Reply #43 Top
Shhh... just use the secret handshake, or else the pogroms will begin...
Reply #44 Top
I always suspected you were really a rabid left winger, this is incontrovertible evidence!
Reply #45 Top
But the best one of all has to be the US war against Spain in 1898 where we declared war on Spain because one of our ships in Havana harbor blew up (turned out it was due to an accident on the ship). That's it. That was the justification. Over 2,000 Americans died in that "war" and that was over a century ago when the US population was much smaller. No hysteria then. No anti-war protesters. No calls for impeachment. No international condemnation.
Brad I enjoyed the article, you pointed out a few of the many reasons why I disagree with this administration myself.  You are looking for your answer by looking at both sides which is something I believe we should all do.  I have to chime in here to sort of give a different perspective on your statement that protests were not abound in older times.  With the advent of the television the first real war that was broadcast with reporters at the actual battle field was the Vietnam War.  At that time people who had historically categorized war as romantic, heroic patriotism for the first time were acquainted with the gruesome reality of war.  We all can look at the amount of protest that Vietnam created as the U.S. emerged from the conservative 50's to the liberal 60's.  This is my view point of course and I expect some disagreement. 
Reply #46 Top
Draginol, so you would rather throw away your vote on a third party candidate or not vote at all and let Kerry win instead of voting for Bush?
Reply #47 Top
But the best one of all has to be the US war against Spain in 1898 where we declared war on Spain because one of our ships in Havana harbor blew up (turned out it was due to an accident on the ship). That's it. That was the justification. Over 2,000 Americans died in that "war" and that was over a century ago when the US population was much smaller. No hysteria then. No anti-war protesters. No calls for impeachment. No international condemnation.


Of course, there was a sympathetic press then too.

Draginol, so you would rather throw away your vote on a third party candidate or not vote at all and let Kerry win instead of voting for Bush?


I think if push came to shove, that is exactly what he is saying, if Bush doesn't mend some of his ways in his opinion. Though I think that voting for a third candidate or none of the above is a bit more viable an option then simply not voting. I respect the opinion.
Reply #48 Top

Draginol, so you would rather throw away your vote on a third party candidate or not vote at all and let Kerry win instead of voting for Bush?

Don't blame me. *I* voted for Kodos.