O G San O G San

Anti-Semitism

Three years ago I was lucky enough to spend some time in the West Bank. One day our group visited Balata refugee camp just outside Nablus. We wandered around talking to the people there and witnessing the often wretched conditions in which they lived. At the end we gathered at a community centre to hear a few of the refugees speak of their experience of disposession.

There was no overarching emotion that I remember all the refugees sharing. Some were despairing, others defiant, others angry. But it was the last speaker who will always stay in my memory. The emotion he chose to display was hatred. A man in his sixties, he was old enough to remember a time when there was no such country as Israel and when, as a result, he had a status other than that of refugee.

But rather than tell the story of how he lost his home, as many of the others speakers had done, he decided to tell a rambling anecdote about his father, who had been friends with a Jewish man in the 1930s. Eventually the two had fallen out and the refugee's father had been swindled out of some money as a result. His conclusion to this tale was blunt: "don't trust the Jews." I'll never forget the way he summed up his attitude "When you give the Jew the finger, he takes the hand. When you give him your hand, he takes the arm."

This was, of course, textbook anti-semitism. In fact it was typical of the false reasoning which leads many people to prejudice: taking a negative trait from one person and then ascribing that trait to their entire race. As the old man concluded his little parable some of the Palestinians we were with walked out of the room, partly in protest at the old man's prejudice, partly in despair that hours of hard work by them had been undone by him in a few sentences.

I know first-hand that some people who criticise the state of Israel are anti-semites. Anyone who hates the Jews is very unlikely to be supportive of the self-identified Jewsih state. So to argue that anti-semitism does not lie behind some of the criticism of Israel would be to argue, in effect, that anti-semitism does not exist. Clearly such a claim is absurd.

Nevertheless there is a growing tendency among those who are pro-Israeli to label any and all criticism of the Jewish state as anti-semitic. It's as though some people are unwilling or unable to accept that one can be against both Israel's occupation of Palestinian land and against ani-Jewish prejudice.

As the second intifada has worn on, I've noticed that some of Israel's supporters have played the anti-semitism card more frequently. From being the card of last resort, it is now the card of first resort for some. Indeed, a few even seem to lack any other cards at all.

This is a symptom of a wider problem for Israel - it doesn't really have a case any more. It's brutal colonial policies in the West Bank and Gaza are so blatant that it is hard for all but the most skillful debater to defend them. When all else is equal, few people are inclined to root for Goliath against David. With such a poor case to start with, it's hardly surprising that some of Israel's supporters reach for their ace - the accusation that anyone who criticises Sharon is a Jew-hater.

After all very few of us, at least in the nice, tolerant West, would welcome the accusation that we hate the Jews. It is widely and correctly understood that this is a despicable attitude to hold. Even having to deny the charge is not a pleasant experience. Any time that your name and the word "anti-semite" get into the same sentence, it's bad news - even if the word "not" is in there too. Would you like to open your newspaper and see the headline "(Your Name) Denies Hating Jews"? No, me neither. The whole point is that anti-semitism is so patently abhorrent that having to deny you believe in it should be unnecessary.

Of course, those who use this slur promisciously know this only too well. They know that the accusation will hurt, and they hope that it will also silence. But there is a limit to how long this last desperate line of defence can hold.

Recently, Webster's dictionary changed their definition of the word "anti-semitism" to include criticism of the state of Israel. If the Jewish state's defenders think this is a victory for them, they have gravely miscalculated. Once the definition is widened, the word's impact is inevitably diluted. If anti-semitism means hatred of the Jews, then it is always morally wrong. But if it means hatred of the Jews and/or criticism of the state of Israel then, in some cases it is not wrong. In fact there are many humane and tolerant people who are by this definition "anti-semites".

With the expansion of the definition, the true anti-semites become more respectable through their inclusion in a group which is no longer composed solely of bigots.

And whom, may I ask, will suffer most as a result of this?

22,685 views 63 replies
Reply #26 Top
The Israeli army has a poor record for human rights"

Evidence?


I have not read every report in this list, but a number of UN reports that document HR abuses by Israel can be found in links from this webpage Link

You could also do searches on the Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International webpages, although I can understand if you feel these are untrustworthy and disreputable sites. It might also be worthwhile to look into the impeachment papers from the recent attacks on Ariel Sharon; this I haven't researched so I'm not sure about their availability or reliability, but there are some issues with his involvement in past atrocities, if the stories are to be believed.

Don't run. Wait around until the Israelis leave. Don't attack them. What's so damn difficult about that?


Purely from my experiences of two nearby feuding neighbours, passivity in the face of aggression can be very difficult to maintain. It becomes especially difficult when people's homes are being demolished, or land is being fenced over. Buddhists spend decades trying to maintain such a state of mind. Must we expect this of children and excitable youths?
Reply #27 Top
Cactoblaste,

have you actually read the reports that "document HR abuses by Israel"? You will find that they don't. Why they would be classified as HR abuse reports I do not know, but the existence of an Israeli settlement is certainly not a HR abuse; and many of the articles seem to be questions rather than report.

One report (at least) mentions Jenin. I have not compared the dates but I wonder whether it refers to the massacre which we now know didn't actually happen. There is also the point that the UN seem to regard Israel's not allowing "refugees" back as an HR abuse, certainly singling out Israel here since Arab countries certainly do not allow Jewish citizens they expelled in the 1950s back into their land and neither does Poland allow German refugees back into the lands which were once German but lost in a war Germany started.

The German and Jewish refugees have of course been welcomed by their respective nation states and thus didn't become "refugees" forever. If only Arabs had that same decency towards their own nation. If not allowing "refugees" back is an HR abuse I wonder why Israel is singled out here (unless the reason is anti-semitism).

I don't see why an Israeli patrol that is suddenly being attacked should be regarded as the "aggressor". I assume that Arabs can be just as civilized as we are and not attack the Israelis for once. As for the children, I do not expect anything from them, but I do expect their parents to watch over them and tell them to NOT attack Israelis and I expect the terrorists to not use children as human shields.

The children only hate Israel because their parents have told them to. And this would again be a case of hating the Jews more than they love their own children, I'm afraid.


Reply #28 Top
Purely from my experiences of two nearby feuding neighbours, passivity in the face of aggression can be very difficult to maintain. It becomes especially difficult when people's homes are being demolished, or land is being fenced over.


I have fueds with my neighbors too, but I don't send my children over there to blow up there kitchen (restraunt), cars (buses), or childrens play rooms (nurseries). I hope you undestand what I just did with your poor analogy. And it is wrong to think that these children in the street that throw stones are the ones who are having their houses destroyed. Buidlings destroyed are used by snipers and terrorsits. In fact, 90% of building structures Palestinian Arab buildinds in the West Bank are built illegally, then they complain when they are destroyed by the army. [

quote]In any event stones are not a particularly dangerous weapon.

I have spoken to an Israeli soldier who served outside Ramallah. Everyday they were confronted by stone throwing youths, of all ages. I mean kids who are as young as 5 and as old as 20. One day they were being attacked with stones and they were bellow a cliff. Boulders starrted falling on them. He said he was never that scared in his life. They quickly drove away jsut in time. Another day he got hit in the leg by a sling shot launched rock. That hurts. He said had it been higher, and hit him in the glasses, he would have glass fragments in both his eyes. Are you going to suggest that all Israeli soldiers not where glasses so kids can launch stones at them? Your statement that throwing stones isn't perticulary dangerous is saying that there is an acceptable level of violence, as long as no one get to hurt, which they do anyway.

Reply #29 Top
I consider blowing up people on a bus a crime against human rights.

You can see how their propaganda works, though. A suicide bomber kills dozens of people. The Israeli army goes in to destroy a bomb factory, the pissants in town go out and start throwing rocks and bottles. Soldiers have to defend themselves, a Palestinian or two dies, and then Israel has a human rights crisis. People will say that rocks and bottles aren't weapons, but they are folks that have never been hit with a rock or a bottle.

It's bullshit, frankly. Israel doesn't go into the Palestinian territories until they've been attacked, someone has been kidnapped, etc. If you can show me constistant incursions into the Palestinian territories when there have been no attacks on Israel, I'll be more critical, but as long as the Palestinian territories are pumping out suicide bombers and supporting terror as a form of political change, my opinion is they are getting off easy.

Face it, if Israel were any other Arab country, the Palestinians would have been ethnically cleansed decades ago. If I were an Israeli, when a bomb went off in my neighborhood I would be asking why the response is so light. I would be asking why we weren't fighting Syria and Iran and Lebanon, the nations that hide the elite of these murderous organizations.

The time has come to wipe those who commit terrorist acts from the face of the earth. Period. The "never ending cycle" is a fallacy, unless they can breed really, really fast. They are doing more harm to the Palestinian people than they are to the Israelis. Anyone who cares for them should pray for the destruction of groups like Hamas and Hizbullah.
Reply #30 Top
"Nevertheless there is a growing tendency among those who are pro-Israeli to label any and all criticism of the Jewish state as anti-semitic."

You're right that criticism of Israel isn't anti-Semitism. Israel isn't a perfect state just like every other state, and constructive criticism can be an asset, and should be given, just as criticism should be leveled at the US (so long as it isn't the shrill yelling of either extreme.... )

The problem is that many times, it goes far beyond criticism. Calls of "Death to Israel" isn't criticism, ( http://users.lmi.net/zombie/sf_rallies_june_5%2B6_2004/signs/126-2634_IMG.JPG )
nor are unfounded allegations of genocide or equating Israel with Nazis...
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1911609.stm ) or calling Israel a "shitty little country"
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1721172.stm ).

It's also interesting to see how Israel gets excessive attention and protests for anything it does - when other countries are completely ignored. The war between Israel and the Palestinians has resulted in about 3000 Palestinian deaths and 1000 Israeli deaths in the course of four years, historically, a *very* low number, probably lower than the civilian death toll in the Iraq war with all our attempts to prevent civilian casualties (and recognition afterwards that there were far far fewer casualties than anyone had predicted), not to mention other wars where the death tolls were far higher, and yet this conflict appears to get special attention. There is plenty of outrage that Israel is building a security fence - but is there any simmilar outrage when India builds a fence in the disputed Kashmir Region? ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3406997.stm ) Where are the protests for China's occupation of Tibet? Russia's occupation of Chechnya? Syria's occupation of Lebenon? The genocide in the Sudan? Or the hundred and one other incidents of greater magnitude? That Israel gets singled out *every* time while the others are completely ignored, is blatent bias, not legitimate criticism.
Reply #31 Top
Your statement that throwing stones isn't perticulary dangerous is saying that there is an acceptable level of violence, as long as no one get to hurt, which they do anyway


I didn't say that it was acceptable, merely that it is probable and only to be expected. To not expect a reaction to military occupation is to show an extremely naive view of politics.

There is plenty of outrage that Israel is building a security fence - but is there any simmilar outrage when India builds a fence in the disputed Kashmir Region? ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3406997.stm ) Where are the protests for China's occupation of Tibet? Russia's occupation of Chechnya? Syria's occupation of Lebenon? The genocide in the Sudan? Or the hundred and one other incidents of greater magnitude? That Israel gets singled out *every* time while the others are completely ignored, is blatent bias, not legitimate criticism.


They are protested, it's just that there's no controversy about these protests. Only the Chinese defend their occupation, only the Russians believe that Russia has a right to Chechnya, only Syrians will argue that Lebanon belongs to Syria, and noone says that genocide is fantastic. Where's the news in these stories? There's no controversy, no spice, no "age-old conflict" angle. That Israel gets singled out every time is because it's guaranteed to provoke discussion and argument, the lifeblood of the old-school media.
Reply #32 Top
It's very true. Israel has the highest media and UN attention per-capita. America almost killed more Iraqis in one month, then Israel kills in a year. And these numbers that are put out about the many Palestinian deaths are blotted because they also count those killed by Israeli soldier while engaging in hostile activities. Not rock throwing, but throwing fire bombs and shooting at israeli soldiers. The number of Palestinian dead also includes the deaths of suicide bombers. Their deaths should be counted, afterall, it was the brutal occupation that drove them to kill Israelis on their way to work and school. Oh, what a propoganda war it is.
Reply #33 Top
"They are protested, it's just that there's no controversy about these protests."

Bullshit. They aren't reported because they aren't happening or are so small as to not be newsworthy. I managed to find one story about a protest about China's occupation of Tibet. A whopping 20-30 people protested in it. Clearly, this shows that everyone is outraged at China. http://www.unpo.org/news_detail.php?arg=52&par=788

And as pointed out, the UN's attention is simmilarly slanted. How many resolutions condeming China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, et al has the UN made, and how many has it made of Israel?
Reply #34 Top
Andrew,
Let me clarify.

Situation 1:
IRA terrorists start sniping at British soldiers from a block of flats. Happened many many many times during in Northern Ireland. The residents in the flats refuse to assist the army in stopping this. In Israel the response would be to fire rockets at the snipers irrespective of the innoncent lives which will be lost. In Northern Ireland that would be unacceptable. Why the difference?

Situation 2:
Nationalists are protesting against the British 'occupation'. Stones get thrown at troops. Some terrorist snipers take pot shots at troops. Troops open fire and kill innoncents. Huge outcry. Yet this happens daily in Israel. Why is it acceptable there?

Situation 3:
British government gets warning of terrorists making a huge bomb in a flat. They know that they cannot capture the terorists as they will get plenty of warning and flee in time. Firing a missile into the apartment is unacceptable due to loss of civilian life. Not is Israel though!

Situation 4:
British SAS operatives have identified a group of IRA terrorists. They're terrorists! They kill them when they try to escape arrest. Huge outcry and political fallout. Yet this is standard Israeli tactics?

My basic point is that it would have been unacceptable for the British government to use Israeli methods. So why are they acceptable in Palestine?

Is this people being so afraid of being accused of anti-semitism that they allow Israel to undertake actions which would be unacceptable in Northern Ireland?

Paul.
Reply #35 Top
It's also interesting to see how Israel gets excessive attention and protests for anything it does - when other countries are completely ignored.

it works both ways. the israelis have done what no other country has yet to do: arm themselves with nuclear weapons and, for all intents, ignore international oversight agencies.

if the us wasnt so closely associated with israel, the likkud goverment's arrogance wouldnt bother me so much. unfortunately, sharon and his colleagues are endangering us as well.
Reply #36 Top
Soltair,

Your point in saying that methods that Israel uses should be the same as the rest of the world, and when Israel acts harshly there should be condemnation. But first of all, Israel still does get more attention fwhile there are much graver human rights breaches in other countries. Secondly, the tactics you mentioned does happen with a few details added. When Israel rockets a building they generally warn the inhabitants to flee. Many don't, or sometimes people run to the buidling of targetr to raise the casualty rate just to make Israel look bad. Sick huh? And also many of these buidlings that snipers use are uninhabitaed and Israel then destroys it, not causing civilian injury or death.
In addition, on several occasion has Israel not used the missile they desired to kill their intended target, for fear of collateral damage. This has happened many times. When Israel tried killing Sheikh Yassin the first time, in September 6 of 2003, they failed killing him for that reason. Israeli's ended up paying with their lives when on september 9th 2003 Hamas terrorists blew up a popular coffee house, killing 7.
Also, to say that Israeli soldiers open fire on stone throwing crowd because of a few gunmen is ridiculous. You said they take pot shots like those don't kill. What really happens is that these gunmen generally surround themselves with people as human sheilds.Why? because they know that Israeli soldiers value human life and won't shoot back. It's so upsetting to see people blame Israel for human rights violations when the enemy it faces uses children as human sheilds, and mothers view their wombs as weapons.
Reply #37 Top
bzjaffe,
you are missing the reason for my post. My comments above are not trying to 'blame' Israel, or critise Israel. This article is about anti-semitism. What I am trying to highlight is that many people feel that it is acceptable for Israel to act in ways that the Brisitsh government could not act in. Why is this?

And most important of all to this thread, why is the term anti-smitism then leveled at people who do critize these actions?

I am trying to highlight if similar British actions (Bloody Sunday, Gibraltar) were condemned then critising the Israeli actions is not anti-semitism!

Paul.
Reply #38 Top
Thanks everyone for your comments.

I'm not going to get involved in the debate about Israel's policies because I've been over that so many times in the past. Suffice to say, I'm happy that everyone who has commented seems to agree with my basic assertion that some of the criticism of Israel is anti-semitic.

To say that none of the criticism is anti-semitic, or that all of it is anti-semitic, seem equally ludicrous to me.
Reply #39 Top
As I said, I agree that not all anti-Israel accusations are ant-Semitic, although many are. But what I was attempting to do before was to ammend what you think happens when Israel fires upon a buidling or when confronted by a gunman. Anti-semitic or not, Israel bears the brunt of so much unwarranted critisicm. Anti-semitically motivated or not, Israel is held to a higher moral standard then most other countries and armies in the world today.
Reply #40 Top
"it works both ways. the israelis have done what no other country has yet to do: arm themselves with nuclear weapons and, for all intents, ignore international oversight agencies."

Completely unlike India, Pakistan, Russia, China, England and France. Oh, and the United States.
Reply #41 Top
it is also very important to understand why Israel feels the need to have a nuclear aresenal. David Ben-Gurion said that this was the only thing keeping the Jews from a second holocaust. Israel has been under attack since the day [before] it was established. It's nuclear weapons are clearly a detturent. Never have they threatened to use them. Israel has faced enemies and has had a much different conflict then any other nations that has nuclear weapons today.
Reply #42 Top
Completely unlike India, Pakistan, Russia, China, England and France. Oh, and the United States

there was no un when the us developed its nukes. russia, china, england & france are all signatories to the un's non-proliferation treaty. india and pakistan have acknowledged having nuke weapons as of 1998. they have not signed the npt tho so they are not subject to oversight. nor is north korea of course. israel refuses to admit it has nuke techonology

this is the 2nd time ive managed to slop this issue up dammit. sorry for the inaccuracies.
Reply #43 Top
it is also very important to understand why Israel feels the need to have a nuclear aresenal. David Ben-Gurion said that this was the only thing keeping the Jews from a second holocaust...It's nuclear weapons are clearly a detturent. Never have they threatened to use them

id prefer guidance from someone who is a potential nuke victim. ben-gurion is past that worry.

refusing to admit you have nuclear weapons seems like a somewhat less than effective deterrent technique

ultimately israel having nuclear weapons is just going to push more muslim countries to develop their own bombs. india or pakistan might be able to survive the other's nuke attack. israel is not nearly large enough . sadly i think israel has painted itself into a corner without realizing it.


the only thing keeping the entire planet from a global holocaust of the nuclear kind is...i got no idea.
Reply #44 Top
"india and pakistan have acknowledged having nuke weapons as of 1998. they have not signed the npt tho so they are not subject to oversight. "

Israel has not signed the NPT either.

"refusing to admit you have nuclear weapons seems like a somewhat less than effective deterrent technique"

The important thing for deterrence is that the governments of the neighboring states are aware of Israel's nuclear capability - which they are - and it's ability to use them if it were forced to. The strategic reasoning behind neither confirm nor deny nuclear weapons is twofold, from what I understand - the first was a promise to the US that Israel wouldn't "introduce nuclear weapons to the region" and the second is that confirming it would lead to a far more aggresive arms race - something Israel doesn't want to get into. (like the arms race between the US and the Soviet Union, The East vs. The West, India vs. Pakistan and, in the future, possibly North Korea vs. Japan if North Korea tries to press it's luck too far)
Reply #45 Top
kingbee,

What you just said is a perfect example of showing how Israel, who is under constant attack became the attacker.

"ultimately israel having nuclear weapons is just going to push more muslim countries to develop their own bombs."
That's saying that everything these countries do is in accordance to Israel. How much money should they put into their schools? Well, how much does Israel? Should they let women vote? What does Israel do? And since Israel has nuclear weapons, now we should to. Right, I'm sure Israel is the main reason Iran is trying so hard to build a nuke. And Saddam Hussein. Wow, he deserved his nukes and Israel took them right away. Is Israel to be less trustworthy then other countries that have, or had nuclear weapons like Iran, Libya, and Iraq, whom are all terrorist supporting regimes?
Reply #46 Top
A good question to ask is, would Isreal, if left to itself, be attacking anyone? Most of the "occupation" has been the result of attacks. Most "Palestinian relief organizations" have as a basic tenet the belief that Israel should not exist... at all.

I am optimistic, no doubt, but I think that if there had been no terrorist attacks, the Palestinians would have had a homeland decades ago. It's no accident that terrorists attack Israel just before any peace talks. It is a money-making proposition for these organizations, like a cult that is made up of many believers and a few manipulators at the top.

The Palestinians have never had a "land" of their own. They soon would if they would simply reject the methods of the terrorists that supposedly speak for them. I'll say it again, if the nation in question had been an Arab nation instead of Israel, the Palestinians would have been ethnically cleansed a long time ago.

The fact that they exist at all is owed to the tolerance and restraint of the Israeli people.
Reply #47 Top
Bakerstreet,
your last post raises some question for me relating to anti-semitism or racism. Your comment of

if the nation in question had been an Arab nation instead of Israel, the Palestinians would have been ethnically cleansed a long time ago


could easily be considered racist as it clearly applies only to one racial group. It generates fear and hatred of that group.

Would you agree this is racism? And if not, then why not?

What I fail to understand is how someone can make such a statement without it being labelled racist, while someone can critise Israel and be accussed of anti-semitism.

Paul.
Reply #48 Top
The strategic reasoning behind neither confirm nor deny nuclear weapons is twofold,

make that threefold. israel doesnt want to sign or be bound by the treaty either.


Is Israel to be less trustworthy then other countries that have, or had nuclear weapons like Iran, Libya, and Iraq, whom are all terrorist supporting regimes?

i dont think any nation should have nuclear weapons...including the us. its absolutely outrageous that after nearly 50 years of living with the threat of atomic war hanging over our heads, there was a period of about 10 years when it seemed possible no one would have to endure that again..until our current president--who damn sure knows what that was like cuz hes only a few years older than i am and should have managed to acquire some common sense in 58 years--indicated his willingness to consider preemptive nuclear strikes.

and youre asking me if i think sharon is stable enough to possess nuclear weapons after what he did on september 29, 2000?

let me ask you something. if israel was found itself in in danger of being overrun by an arab coalition that was not in possession of nuclear weapons, would it be justified in nuking its enemies?

Reply #49 Top
The Palestinians have never had a "land" of their own

nor did we til 228 years ago and that was only on the east coast.

palestinians are ethnic and linguistic arabs. theyre called palestinians for the same reason the whitehouse is called the whitehouse. because they resided in palestine (and because its white and a house)

the arabs booted the romans out of palestine in 638 ad. except for the period between 1099-1187 when european christians occupied parts of palestine, the country was ruled by arabs in damascus, baghdad and egypt until it became part of the ottoman empire from 1517 to 1917.
Reply #50 Top
Solitair - I suggest you look up what happened in Jordan in "Black" September in Jordan, 1970, and then keep in mind that Jordan is by far the arab country where Palestinians have the most freedom and prosperity. It's not that these countries are represive against the Palestinians because they're arab countries, it's because, at this point in time, these countries are represive dictatorships (or represive monarchies) where massacres of thousands occur regularly.

Kingbee:
"israel doesnt want to sign or be bound by the treaty either."

But as you pointed out, neither are Pakistan or India, and they have declared their nuclear weapons.

"let me ask you something. if israel was found itself in in danger of being overrun by an arab coalition that was not in possession of nuclear weapons, would it be justified in nuking its enemies? "

If Israel was about to be destroyed? Absolutely, but then, I supported Mutually Assured Destruction, too. Deterrence is useless if you're not willing to go through with it if necessary.