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Take down your flag, we don't like it..

Take down your flag, we don't like it..

The death of freedom to fly the American Flag..

http://www.ccfj.net/flyoldgloryOulton.html
This is the story of Richard Oulton, an American, a veteran, and a victim of the Ameircan Communist..the Leftys.

Richard Oulton put up a flag pole in his yard, and flew the American Flag and a purple heart flag. For those of you armchair libs, thats a medal you get for being wounded in time of war. Mr. Oulton was awared that medal while he was a member of the "Walking Dead Marines", the 1st BN, 9th Marine Regiment in Vietnam. His unit started out with 800 marines and lost 605 during the war. This unit suffered the highest casulty rate of any unit in the war. He has every right to be proud, and fly those flags, he earned it with his own blood.

In Richmond, Va., Richard Oulton's homeowner's association demanded his flagpole come down. But he said no way.

"To take it down now would be a total dishonor and an insult to everyone that has ever stood for the flag. If that flag comes down now, the next place it will fly will be over my coffin," Oulton said.

He's been raising the flag ever since he was a medic in Vietnam and flew the stars and stripes over his bunker. "I'm just trying to express my patriotism, my love for my country," he said.

Oulton is an attorney. When he moved into the Florida community he says he checked to see if there were any restrictions on flying the flag.

"There was no reference to flags or flagpoles anyplace," Oulton said.

So he put up a big flagpole next to the big home he built, on three lots. His neighbors say they don't object.

They say it's nice, it matches the house, and say it's an asset to the community.
(DID you get that, the neighbors had NO PROBLEM with the pole or the Flags, in fact they liked it!!))

Objection to Flagpole

But the homeowner's association board said the flagpole's too big.

"We had no idea someone would erect a flagpole that large when the guidelines were written," said Birdie Knuckols, former member of the association board.

Since the association guidelines did not mention flagpoles — the board instead ruled it was an unapproved structure. Later they adopted rules allowing flagpoles — but only small ones, no larger than 6 feet — and required them to be attached to the house.

"It's not an issue of patriotism. All we are asking Mr. Oulton to do is show his patriotism within the guidelines that everyone else in the community is willing to live by," Knuckols said.

Planned communities can set these rules because they're private, and many homeowners love the rules because they like the way the regulations make their communities look nice and uniform. They say this raises property values.

But sometimes the people on the boards of the homeowners' associations are very controlling. And the law is on their side. So, in 1999 the board took its complaint about Oulton's flagpole to court, and won. While he appealed, he was allowed to keep the flagpole up.

Oulton said, "I don't understand what the problem is. It's a property right that I have to fly this flag. It's a free speech right that I have to fly this flag."

He dedicated the flagpole to the Marine unit he served with in Vietnam, a unit dubbed the walking dead because three-quarters of its members were killed.

"I had a lot of guys die in my arms and once I put that plaque out there and said this flag will always fly because I owe it to my boys, my walking dead Marines … I owe it to my boys," Oulton said.

But it won't fly anymore. He took it down in March. All that remains is a hole in the ground, a broken plaque and mementos left by visiting veterans.

Oulton lost his case in local court, and then higher courts rejected his appeals. The presiding judge told Oulton, "You agreed not to erect a structure without prior approval. That's it. No more, no less. You violated that agreement." After a four-year battle, Oulton has lost his flag, and $150,000 to the association in legal fees.

Is this not a perfect example of the way in which the freaks, and deviants in this country take away our freedoms one at a time? Is this not a crime! Think about it, the neighbors LIKED the pole and flags, but some idiot with to much time on his hands and to little brain decided that he didn't like it, can this truely have been an American who felt that way? Does this not make your blood boil that they would go so far as to force him to remove them?? I can tell you where I would have told them to put the flag pole. Then they would have had to come take it down by force.

Another small part of American Freedom and the right to express your love of this Country died that day.
The like shows you pictures of this case and a little more in-depth info. I mistakingly said the ACLU was involved inthis case, they were not to my knowledge (now I know this) but this is just the type of thing thye would do. But this was just done by local idiots and leftys.. They must have had troubled childhoods and blame the USA for all the welfare checks they are forced to get.
40,218 views 127 replies
Reply #101 Top
Since this is and has been a defence that is sometimes accepted in court I guess you disagree?


Yes, but the case is going to court to be tried by a judge. That's a major difference from the law enforcement officer just deciding not to arrest or charge her for the crime because he feels for her plight.

VES
Reply #102 Top
Yes, but the case is going to court to be tried by a judge. That's a major difference from the law enforcement officer just deciding not to arrest or charge her for the crime because he feels for her plight.


Your joking right?? You are not implying I would not arrest her, right? I am sure your not that silly or lacking in common sense, the difference between murder and say a traffic ticket.
Reply #103 Top
WOW! Of all the petty things to compain about. Aren't we suppose to pushing patriotism? I can't believe anyone would even dream about harrassing a vet for hanging a flag. Why doesn't the home owners associations make people take their confederate flags or their 88 posters out of their front windows???That would make me not move into a neighborhood.
Reply #104 Top
WOW! Of all the petty things to compain about. Aren't we suppose to pushing patriotism? I can't believe anyone would even dream about harrassing a vet for hanging a flag. Why doesn't the home owners associations make people take their confederate flags or their 88 posters out of their front windows???That would make me not move into a neighborhood.


Thank you for bringing us back to the original issues.

Ya that 88 poster is enough to make me also, now if it was 48 or 24 that would be ok...JUST KIDDING!!!

I agree its the flag thats the issue. If it had been a ACLU or UN flag the courts would have fought each other to prevent it from being taken down..

Reply #105 Top

I agree its the flag thats the issue

Actually, it was the flagpole.  They told him he could fly a flag on a 6' pole on the side of his house, remember?

Reply #106 Top
Sigh, no point in continuing this as people are no longer bothering to read the responses (there's 100+ now of them). Suffice to say, the flag POLE is the issue, not the flag.
Reply #107 Top
Your joking right??


No, I'm pointing out the difference. You are the one that brought up the murder case suggesting that a LEGAL defense of self defense flew in the face of the concept "the law is the law." The law recognizes self defense as a legal defense, so it doesn't contridict the idea "the law is the law". It's a poor example because in that case, the person WOULD be arrested and brought before a judge. We had been previously discussing when LEO's use discretion in NOT bringing a case before a judge.

If I was going to say something about you, I would say it more directly, not imply it. A simple following of logic....

Okay, now I'm really done....

VES
Reply #108 Top

Reply #2 By: Draginol - 6/9/2004 7:07:28 PM
I think I'm as patriotic as the next person. But I tend to agree with the association on this. It's not that his neighbors and association were unpatriotic or didn't respect the flag, it's that when you move into an association you agree to abide by a certain set of rules.


I'm sorry Drag but I have to disagree on this. Reread the post. There were *no* rules covering this when he moved in
I don't like when people try to play the patriotism flag to claim victimhood anymore than I like seeing people play the racism card to play victim. I would have objected to a huge flag pole and huge flag across the street from my house too.
That's the whole point. His neighbors were *not* complaining about it.
Reply #109 Top

Reply #3 By: jeblackstar - 6/9/2004 7:09:07 PM
Umm, they didn't want him to take down the flag, they wanted him to take down the flagpole. There are some important questions unasked here. How tall was the flagpole, is the most important one. Was it the standard height? 8-12ft?


Since *when* is there a standard height? Go to Home Depot and look. Their outside pole kit is 20'
Reply #110 Top

Reply #9 By: InfoGeek - 6/9/2004 8:31:19 PM
They didn't have a rule against it. That really is the point. They decided to MAKE a rule against it after the fact. A judge decided to back them on this. THAT is the real point.


So basically the governing body of the complex thought the overly tall flagpole did not "jive" with the complex aesthetic so they looked for a way to get rid of it. A normal response for the gated community.

Since they had no rules specifically about flagpoles, they determined it was a structure. Which it was,


Not. A flagpole is not cosidered a structure. Here is the dictionary meaning of the word structure. I f you notice they all have to do with "buildings" which a flagpole ain't!


Main Entry: 1struc·ture
Pronunciation: 'str&k-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin structura, from structus, past participle of struere to heap up, build -- more at STREW
1 : the action of building : CONSTRUCTION
2 a : something (as a building) that is constructed b : something arranged in a definite pattern of organization
Reply #111 Top

Reply #13 By: dharmagrl - 6/9/2004 9:57:28 PM
The presiding judge told Oulton, "You agreed not to erect a structure without prior approval. That's it. No more, no less. You violated that agreement."


The part about a flagpole being a structure. It's not! Definition follows.
Main Entry: 1struc·ture
Pronunciation: 'str&k-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin structura, from structus, past participle of struere to heap up, build -- more at STREW
1 : the action of building : CONSTRUCTION
2 a : something (as a building) that is constructed b : something arranged in a definite pattern of organization
Reply #112 Top

Reply #76 By: MasonM - 6/11/2004 7:57:06 AM
Ah. Re-reading kingbee's layout of the timeline. Misunderstood the first time I read it. (Ok, skimmed it)

If that timeline is accurate, then the law did, in fact, come after the case and so would not have applied. Seems that perhaps it would have to be considered on appeal though, wouldn't it? I'm no lawyer so not sure about that one


As a matter of fact yes it should have been considered on appeal.
Reply #113 Top
eply #93 By: Brad Wardell - 6/13/2004 6:00:09 PM
His neighbors liked it and wanted it there.

If his neighbors liked it, like the claim says, they would have simply modified the rules. In associations it only takes a simple majority to add/modify a rule. Standard procedure.


This partially incorrect. the majority can be over-ridden by the board of directors.
Reply #114 Top
how big is this thing???

whatever, the point is that they should leave it and not allow others to do it.

yes, lack of unifority and wierd housing designs can effect propetry values of other houses.

I say, leave his flag and write the rules so that others can not do it unless it is at the limited hieght.
Reply #115 Top
This is ridiculous. I rule in favor of the home owners assoc.
Reply #116 Top

Reply #118 By: joetheblow - 10/16/2004 2:33:03 PM
how big is this thing???

whatever, the point is that they should leave it and not allow others to do it.

yes, lack of unifority and wierd housing designs can effect propetry values of other houses.

I say, leave his flag and write the rules so that others can not do it unless it is at the limited hieght.


Can't do that. If it's okay for one, it has to be okay for all.
Reply #117 Top

Reply #119 By: sandy2 - 10/16/2004 2:52:14 PM
This is ridiculous. I rule in favor of the home owners assoc


Somehow I expected that coming from you.
Reply #118 Top
I live in Richmond, I met Rich just after this hit the news. Great guy, shafted (no pun intended) by the neighborhood association. Justified my reason for not moving into a community development.
Reply #119 Top
The same thing has happened here.

Communist Nazis called the Home Owners Association is threatening to foreclose on his house because he didn't get permission for his flag pole and he doesn't want to take it down. Not that he is behind in any payments.

People complain about their rights being taken away bt the Patriot Act, when in fact it is the Home Owners Association that has taken your rights away. They are Evil, EVIL I tell you!
Reply #120 Top
This is ridiculous. I rule in favor of the home owners assoc.


No that is ridiculous I rule in favor of individual rights, especially of one who has served his/her country and I also rule in the right of one's own personal property.

- Grimyn Xand
Reply #121 Top
No that is ridiculous I rule in favor of individual rights, especially of one who has served his/her country and I also rule in the right of one's own personal property.


I am the liberal, I rule in favor of ones individual rights, but not to have a 90 foot high flag pole that detracts from my right to have a high property value.
Reply #122 Top
I am the liberal, I rule in favor of ones individual rights, but not to have a 90 foot high flag pole that detracts from my right to have a high property value.


I am the Liberty-tarian and I follow the philosophy of Ayn Rand, plus the flagpole was not 90 feet high (though in the city of Lawton we had a Doctor who for Christmas had a 80+ foot Electric Light Christmas Tree in the frontyard).

I support an individual's rights always because to falter in it is to give way to tyranny. Though that flag there probably added more to the property value than those little lawn jockeys ever have!!

- Grimerty X
Reply #123 Top
"individual's rights"

Exactly


I have never been under an HOA, and I never will. I never had any neighbor anywhere, do anything to their home that decreased property values. They are as much concerned about it as I am. One place I lived had a guy two doors down that built an observatory in his back yard. You could see it too, everybody could. Another guy had a 15 foot flag pole in his front yard. He was a retired marine. The property values did just fine and I sold the place for a good little profit. All without having to pay some association to tell me what I can or can't do with my home.

I guess that's all the British needed in 1776 was a Home Owners Association and there wouldn't have been any need for Independence.