So why aren't people up in arms over this pending handout?

I have to laugh a little bit as I sit here and think of the Lewis Black stand-up comedy special that I watched again recently.  It was re-run on Comedy Central, from their 'stash' (so it was unrated and uncensored for the most part).  Funny stuff.  Including a rant about how when both the Republicans and Democrats both come together in unison and work cooperatively we "Americans" are about to be doubly f---ed (or words to equivalent).

Anyway, he is about to be proven right again as the GOP (mostly via President Bush) is rushing to work with their 'friends' on the other side (the Democrats) to rush through a stimulus package in the form of a tax rebate (or prebate as some would call it).  Both sides are doing their best to get this stimulus package together to keep the U.S. economy from hitting the skids and to keep the U.S. economy from going into (or going deeper into) a recession.

Now please don't get me wrong as I really don't want to seem as if I'm not in favor of doing something to help the economy.  I am in favor of doing something, but I'm not sure that this $150 billion (give or take) semi-handout is the best approach.  $150 billion is a drop in the bucket really, but before I make up my own mind about whether or not that money will be useful as a stimulus to the economy I need to know what the longer term impact is.  Will we get tax prebates and then wind up not getting tax refunds next year?  Oh that would be great.  NOT!!!!  Though I've been told many times that I shouldn't let the government have an interest free loan of my tax money, I'm a normal U.S. citizen that looks forward to a tax refund each year and not having one means not having money that I would spend to make a decent sized purchase for myself or my family.

If there is no direct impact on future taxes, then where did the money come from?  Was it magically created?  The fed blinked, the money was created and now we get to spend it?!?!  We all know that wasn't really the case though, right?

The fed blinked alright, that is for sure.  They're still blinking and as some would say 'smarting' over the damage that has been done (by them) to the U.S. economy because of the fed's actions to deflate the housing market and take the air out of balloon there.  They did that job only too well and thanks to having popped that bubble, they basically killed the economy at the same time.

Now the fed is talking up the idea of a stimulus package that would be quick and over in a relatively short period of time and of course the pandering politicians in D.C. are doing their best to offer up handouts with the idea that the tax payers that receive the money will rush right out and spend it.

Here's where I have to ask why people aren't up in arms over the idea though -- where will the money really go?  A few hundred dollars per person, or per family, will go where?  LCD HDTVs?  Down payments for new cars?  A tank full of heating oil?  Perhaps a tank full of propane gas to keep furnaces and ovens running over the next few months?   All relatively worthy uses for the money, but in the end where will that money really wind up?

Think hard people.  Think very hard.  Where does virtually all money wind up?

Let me spell it out clearly for you.  In the hands of the corporations.  In the hands of the wealthy.  Yeah, we're going to take their money (by not giving them these handouts and by not reducing their tax burdens) and redistribute it out to the poor and middle class.  Great idea.  And then those people will run out and purchase goods and services that will profit those same people in the end.

This is nothing more than corporate welfare.  We're going to shore up the revenue streams for businesses.  Great idea.  Lets not let the market correct itself, and lets not let the market determine how many jobs might not be needed.  Instead, lets artificially stimulate the economy and lets confuse the businesses about just how much production capacity they need to keep.  Lets confuse them about how many employees they need to keep on the payroll.  And lets confuse them more by having people snap up goods to put in their homes just before those same people go into work and find that they no longer have jobs to go to.  That'll go over really well if some of the people that gets these handouts borrow money to make even bigger purchases with (and then have to declare bankruptcy because they don't have the income to pay for those purchases later).

For many reasons I wonder why there's not more concern over these apparently coming handouts.  It seems to me that there are a number of reasons to think that this bunch of handouts isn't going to be a good thing.  If others think the same and wind up saving the money rather than spending it then the stimulus will never happen.  The money will sit in the bank (or equivalent thereof) and do little or no good.

So why is this stimulus package supposed to be a good thing??

6,672 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top
So why is this stimulus package supposed to be a good thing??
End of quote



When it doubt, throw money at it. Afterall, most of the higher ups are rich, aren't they? They've been throwing money at things for years...why should they stop now?



Also, stimulus package- viagra for the economy. :)

~Zoo
Reply #2 Top
I agree that this is not a great idea. Giving free money to people is never the solution to any problem. But if they do give the money, I will do my part and spend it. I mean it would be silly of me to put it away knowing it will never accomplish it's goal in the bank Most likely clothes, maybe some bikes for the kids that I owe them, or maybe some kind of electronic gadget I know I won't get any time soon. Of course it will be something I can buy without spending more than I get.

None the less I will do my part and spend the money to help "stimulate" the economy and hope it works. I have already done my part with my tax return.
Reply #3 Top
You've made the case as to why people should be all up ons about it, but it's plainly simple why they're not -

We're greedy bastards, and too often we want some good stuff now, rather than wait and get the good stuff later. We give up THE things we want in the future to get A thing we want now.

And we pay the price for it.

It's stupid human nature, plain and simple.
Reply #4 Top

I'm wondering why they don't just get to the meat of the only part of the problem the federal government is reponsible for.. High Taxes.

Cut the gas tax for awhile.  That would give Americans more money, take some pressure off of business, and it wouldn't cost 3 times what it's worth to implement it.

 

Reply #5 Top
I think the cutting of gas tax is a far better idea.  Lets remember why the economy is in this "shaky" period, which has been made worse by the propaganda the media puts out.....

Americans spending more than they make.


Reply #6 Top

Let me spell it out clearly for you. In the hands of the corporations. In the hands of the wealthy. Yeah, we're going to take their money (by not giving them these handouts and by not reducing their tax burdens) and redistribute it out to the poor and middle class. Great idea. And then those people will run out and purchase goods and services that will profit those same people in the end.

The theory is that once it gets into the stream, it will create (or cause not to be lost) jobs.  Which it will in a way.  But as you point out, it will be filtered.  But it is NOT corporate welfare.  Far from it.  In the first case, that does nto exist.  Some (like me) will save it.  (I guess you can argue the big bad banks get it then).

And it is a drop in the bucket.  A better policy would be to encourage job creation directly - without filtering it.  They would get more bang for the buck, and it does not even have to go to "big bad old corporations" mostly, but to just exempting the first X dollars of profit from tax which would apply to small businesses mostly.

We can debate where the money eventually goes and who is benefitting the most.  But if the intent is to get votes, they are doing the exact right thing.  If the intent is to help the economy, it is nothing more than a drop in the bucket. It will help, but not nearly as much as other sounder plans.

Reply #7 Top
Damn, for once we are in complete agreement on an issue.

Be well.
Reply #8 Top

Parated2k said:

Cut the gas tax for awhile. That would give Americans more money, take some pressure off of business, and it wouldn't cost 3 times what it's worth to implement it.

I hate to go back to old arguments, but I really don't think cutting the gas tax is the right idea.  In the end that would just leave the transportation trust fund far short of funds needed to fix the roads that we drive on.

 

Actually, in this particular instance I'm going to probably be seen as far too liberal, but I think perhaps the right idea for a stimulus package may lie in some massive spending on infrastructure needs.  New roads and improvements to roads, shore up some of the bridges that have raised those levels of concern, and you know, perhaps even put a fair amount of money into building some new power generating structures.  Build them and then auction them off to the energy consortiums with a requirement that they must remain producing at say 75% capacity 75% of the time (so they can't pull tricks of taking them out of service too frequently) and add in a requirement that existing power plants must remain operating at the same capacity that they have been over the last 5 years (so those can't be taken off line in the name of generating artificial price hikes).  Build enough of them to add another 10 - 20% power generating capacity and get 'em added to the grid so that we aren't facing power shortages in the future and don't have to deal with more Enron style manipulation of the power system in the name of profits for the corporations.

 

My point in the original article here is that throwing money at consumption is not the best answer.  At least I don't believe that to be the case.  Short term consumption is just too short and in the end it just prolongs the need for true fixes that may have to take place.

Reply #9 Top
My point in the original article here is that throwing money at consumption is not the best answer. At least I don't believe that to be the case. Short term consumption is just too short and in the end it just prolongs the need for true fixes that may have to take place.


Basically, this idea (of the stimulus plan) is a small band aid for a large wound.
Reply #10 Top
I'm going to pay off whatever debt I can with it because when the recession hits I don't want to be paying anything except my mortgage. And I don't really even want to be paying that. Oh well.

Regardless, the less people want my money the more likely I will not lose my house.

I don't think it's a very good idea to throw money at consumers, either. People buy more, businesses expand, then there is a gap in the market because nobody has as much money as they thought we did.
Reply #11 Top

Terp:

I hate to go back to old arguments, but I really don't think cutting the gas tax is the right idea. In the end that would just leave the transportation trust fund far short of funds needed to fix the roads that we drive on.

Very little of the revenue raised by the gas tax goes into infrastructure anyway.  I know here in Wisconsin it is common practice for the Governor raids the federal highway funds, making them part of the general budget.  I'm sure if King Doyle gets away with it, other governors and legislatures do to.

If more federal money is thrown into those coffers, it will only mean more money for the state governments to raid.

 

But at least you are making suggestions that could work... unlike writing a bunch of checks, with no tax cut.

Reply #12 Top
So we're all in bi-partisan agreement, more or less, against a "bi-partisan" plan...interesting. Joeuser history in the making.
Reply #13 Top

Joeuser history in the making.

...and possibly the end of existence.

~Zoo

Reply #14 Top

So we're all in bi-partisan agreement, more or less, against a "bi-partisan" plan...interesting. Joeuser history in the making.

In this case, we are each blindly feeling part of the elephant - the trunk, the legs, the body, the tail - but we all agree it is an elephant.