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Exploding Two Conservative Myths

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Exploding Two Conservative Myths

from JoeUser Forums


When I listened to Ron Paul being interviewed on Meet the Press and while watching the Republican debates, two of the most fundamental conservative axioms we hear from Republicans were shown to be fabrications.

First is an individual make better spending choices then government.

Second is that government spending is ineffective and wasteful.

Spending Choices

Does anyone believe that if all or most spending choices were made by individuals that they would say I need to spend money to help replace that tank the 1st Armored Division needs? I will repair the section of I95 between, mile marker X and Y in George. Baby Carol Smith needs formula today and I will buy it for her. We need another border guard to stop illegals and possibly terrorists from crossing into the U.S.

The truth is none of those and many other choices that are essential for our country to survive and prosper would be made by individuals. The spending choices must be made by BOTH individuals to provide for individual needs but the needs of our society and to insure our security and to facilitate commerce, banking, law enforcement and many other items must be made collectively by government.

That is not to say that some spending choices by government, like to build the bridge in Alaska where about 50 people lived, are the best choices. However if the choice were to repair a bridge that enabled tens of thousands to get to work each day that spending choice would be sound and could be essential.

Government spending is Wasteful

In most cases when the government spends tax dollars that money returns to the economy and helps individuals and business. If the Federal Government buys that tank the 1st Armored Division needs, Americans are put to work and the companies that make the tank earn a profit. That helps the people who own the stock of the companies who make and assemble that tank. It also provides something we NEED to protect our freedom. If the Federal government adds that Border Guard, that person spends the salary they are paid from taxes and that helps the economy. An expenditure the government makes that does not help our people is the interest on the debt that is paid to foreign investors. That tax money does not return to our economy.

If an individual takes their tax cut and invests it in a business that employs people outside the U.S. that investment takes money from our economy. In that case the spending choice by an individual harms the economy. Thus these two GOP axioms above are not true and it is time the American Voters understand the true nature of Federal spending. We do need to pay for our spending and STOP deficit spending! The GOP is supporting political ideas that are NOT in agreement with the majority of Americans. As a Republican I can not understand HOW the GOP got so far from the mainstream of the American People. Most Republicans can not complete a sentence without using the word “Conservative”. The majority of Americans are NOT Conservatives.
politics
51,851 views 186 replies
Reply #176 from JoeUser Forums Top
We have showed you a hundred times how to do this.  It's just crazy to think giving the federal government more money will reduce anything.

Get rid of all of the social programs, that will wipe billions and billions off the budget to start!


Reply #177 from JoeUser Forums Top

All you do is keep making excuses for why taxes should be increased without dealing with the actual problem.
End of quote

That's because Gene has no accountability.

What incentive does he have to educate himself on the issues when it's other people who have to pay for his beliefs?

What incentive does Gene have to argue to cut spending when he is advocating that other people should take care of his family and pay in more?

What Gene and his ilk never realize (not that it matters, he's powerless) is that only those who produce things have true control over their own destinies.  He is clueless to this because he's never been a producer. 

Gene has obviously never even bothered to work through exactly what would happen if you raise taxes on the rich. What precisely, does he think the effect would be? He never works out the obvious consequenes.

There's only really three scenarios:

1) You increase the taxes on "the rich". The rich are greedy and selfish (according to Gene). Now they don't have as much wealth that they get to keep. So they fire some employees so that they can maintain their greedy and selfish lifestyle.

2) You increase the taxes on "the rich". The rich aren't greedy and selfish but they run companies that have to compete in a global market. Now their costs have gone up which makes it harder for them to compete. If they raise prices, they could lose sales. The other option is to cut costs which invariably means laying people off.

3) You increase the taes on "the rich". The rich aren't greedy and selfish and they aren't willing to lay anyone off just because their costs have gone up.  In time, the company goes out of business and eveyrone loses their jobs.

At the macro level, taxes are simply another cost to a business much like energy, cost of goods sold, etc. 

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Reply #178 from JoeUser Forums Top
gene, brad and I are at the extreme opposite ends of the financial picture. brad is rich. i am on disability. now why in the world do you think that i agree with him.
Reply #179 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Island DogPosted: Monday, January 07, 2008We have showed you a hundred times how to do this. It's just crazy to think giving the federal government more money will reduce anything.Get rid of all of the social programs, that will wipe billions and billions off the budget to start!


That is not going to happen and most Americans would not support such cuts! That is especially true to protect the tax cuts for the wealthy. If the choice is to ask the wealthy to pay a little more in taxes or cut welfare or social Security/Medicare, there is no question the VAST MAJORITY will opt for increasing the tax rates for the wealthy. I believe the Conservatives do not support that but they are not in the majority!


2) You increase the taxes on "the rich". The rich aren't greedy and selfish but they run companies that have to compete in a global market. Now their costs have gone up which makes it harder for them to compete. If they raise prices, they could lose sales. The other option is to cut costs which invariably means laying people off.



That is not the result of returning to the tax rates of the 1990's. The PROOF is that people were NOT laid off when the rich did pay a little more in taxes.

This argument is like if we do not act we will see mushroom clouds over American Cities! LIES to scare people!!!!!!
Reply #180 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: danielostPosted: Monday, January 07, 2008gene, brad and I are at the extreme opposite ends of the financial picture. brad is rich. i am on disability. now why in the world do you think that i agree with him.


Anyone at the low end of the income scale that agrees with the Bush/Conservative agenda shows their lack of understanding as to the consequences of the Bush/Conservative economic policies on the low and middle income!!!!!
Reply #181 from JoeUser Forums Top
Anyone at the low end of the income scale that agrees with the Bush/Conservative agenda shows their lack of understanding as to the consequences of the Bush/Conservative economic policies on the low and middle income!!!!!
End of quote




or more likely they show their complete understanding of how things really work.


the democrat party does not care any more about the middle or lower class than the republicans.


those people in Washington are not going to pass any laws that will take money out of their own pockets.

why do you think that they classify the rich at 200,000. it is because their pay for being in the congress is less than the 200,000.
Reply #182 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is not going to happen and most Americans would not support such cuts!
End of quote


Well first of all, poll numbers do not control these cuts.  Secondly, if you think Americans woudl uphold welfare and food stamps by a great majority you are sadly mistaken.


That is not the result of returning to the tax rates of the 1990's. The PROOF is that people were NOT laid off when the rich did pay a little more in taxes.
End of quote


It's not the 90's gene, things have changed, get over it.  The "90's" also brought us recession.


This argument is like if we do not act we will see mushroom clouds over American Cities! LIES to scare people!!!!!!
End of quote


Just like global warming propaganda?


Anyone at the low end of the income scale that agrees with the Bush/Conservative agenda shows their lack of understanding as to the consequences of the Bush/Conservative economic policies on the low and middle income!!!!!
End of quote


If they are on the low end of income scale, it's much more than politics they don't understand.  You keep advocating for a nanny state where people who don't produce anything should get a free pass from the federal government.
Reply #183 from JoeUser Forums Top
If they are on the low end of income scale, it's much more than politics they don't understand.
End of quote



sorry but no sometimes it has to do with personality. at least in my case. I have never cared about money that much. just enough to get by. I know that makes me lazy.
Reply #184 from JoeUser Forums Top

That is not the result of returning to the tax rates of the 1990's. The PROOF is that people were NOT laid off when the rich did pay a little more in taxes.
End of quote

That's idiotic.  When the tax rates were lowered, companies hired more people.  If you put taxes back to where they were in the 1990s you will simply have those companies get rid of the employees they wouldn't hvae hired in the 1990s.

Your line of thinking is akin to saying that someone making $50k can do fine on $30k because back in the 1990s they made $30k and were "fine".  When taxes went down, companies hired more people.

As you may recall, JoeUser got built by employees who were hired due to the tax cuts.

Reply #185 from JoeUser Forums Top
As you may recall, JoeUser got built by employees who were hired due to the tax cuts.
End of quote


I notice he can never address this.  I guess the reality of tax cuts is too much maybe?


Reply #186 from JoeUser Forums Top
He's just clueless is the problem.  His greed keeps him from looking at the logical progression of his desires.