TA killed my RAM

>.<

Odd...during my last large game (gigantic with 4 oppentents + myself) Due to the holidays I was playing it on and off over the course of 3 days and never once turned it off. While playing on the 3rd day the video card seemed to crash and the screen went black. Shutting the game down seemed it fix it.

Maybe you should look into the possibility of adding another case fan or two, and possibly a way to help cool the ram directly.

I imagine I would've been fine if only I hadn't gone for immense. I've played other size maps without any issue, but I really enjoy the largest possible so I can get as deeply into the tech trees and colonize as much as possible before facing the AI. Random events always kill the heck out of me on small maps - or did on GalCiv 1, anyway.



I am doing this, although not today. I'm looking into fans when I get my replacement RAM this week (hopefully).

I do monitor the temperature, and I've never had heat problems before. I was surprised to get it from TA when Hellgate has run smoothly at fairly high settings. Prior to the crash, there was no lag or other signs of instability, so it was a surprise when it happened.

You sir got some broken hardware. No amount of exception reports will fix it.

That's "ma'am," and I wasn't expecting the exception reports to fix anything. I posted that I had sent an exception report so that I wouldn't be advised to send one. Sort of like explaining to tech support that "yes, I have already tried powering down and restarting the computer, and yes, I did make sure it was plugged in" when you first call.

I gotta agree with Raknor. I don't believe it was TA per se that fried your RAM, but only a matter of time until something would have happened, TA or not.

On another note, I wonder what the gender ratio is for persons playing TA?

It might've been anything, but TA did it, damn your eyes. Just like that one time Freedom Force killed my ancient CD-ROM! :p

I imagine the gender ratio is heavily weighted toward men.

Indeed. Killing billions of weird space aliens and conquering the galaxy is not a passtime you would tend to associate with a stereotypical female.

As for killing hardware, I found out that CD-ROMs tend to get unhappy when you put things that arn't CDs in them.

That's true, but Freedom Force was totally a CD.

I'd only had the thing for 9 years. If it worked for 9 years, why not 9 more?

I am getting some really long load times with GalCiv 2 now - I haven't tried TA, just DA. I suspect it's due to having 1 gig of RAM instead of 2, but I miss the almost instant game starts...why can't Best Buy open right now?

And yeah - I love science fiction 4X games. I played MoO2 right up until GalCiv 1 came out (and MoO3 was so lackluster), but got tired of things like the AI spawning 100 death stars every turn from its last three worlds. While GalCiv's AI isn't perfect, it doesn't do anything like that. I blame growing up with a lot of Risk.

TA did not Kill the RAM !! but Ram is funny sometimes !! not all sticks work well together as i found out i have 4x 512mb ram DDR
and can only run 2 sticks 1gb ram instead of 2gb but the thing is
the game stop crashing!! is it the games fault for trying to use the ram and crashing no it`s the rams fault for not working together.
I found out by running a test on the ram when it crash the PC,.. so after taking 2 sticks out and running the test again without crashing i left it that way.The game work after that !!!

BTW it was DA when i was having all my issue's !!

TA totally killed the RAM. It might have been ready to die, but TA was in the room right when I found the knife in the RAM's back. However, I was more posting about crashing in an immense galaxy, which is of course a known thing. The RAM dying on top of that was just gravy.

To be honest, this RAM has been working fine for two years. Now, I have been playing a lot of high-performance games lately (Hellgate: London, for example), so there was probably some stress already there, or something else was going on.

Of course, now GCII is strangely jerky, rather than smooth, when displaying graphics.

Edit: Whoops, jerkiness is because my secondary drive - which has my swap file - switched from ATA to PIO. Fixed!

A game will not kill ram. Period.

A game can put a stress on the system, to be sure. And, to be sure, GalCiv does this because of the intense AI. But the ram (or any other component) will not fail unless it is weak or faulty to begin with, or has inadequate cooling.

I have a fairly decent system, even though it is an HP and not built by myself.
GalCiv runs pretty smoothly and basically without fault. I do, however, have the random crash - as I do with any other intense program that I run.

Software is, well ... software!
It is designed to work within certain parameters, but sometimes falls short - either because of the softwares' programmers or the hardware's limitations, or other factors between the two parties communication between one another.


When I first got this game in early 2006, I noticed certain things.
One was that my CPU ran very hot while running GalCiv2.
Another was that my video chipset also ran very hot when in-game.

Conclusion - this game stresses my system, so if I want to run it efficiently I would have do do some upgrading.

I went from 2GB of ram to 3GB. Which meant trying one brand, and replacing it when it was not compatible with my current ram. (and from a well known dependable brand to a lesser known one, I may add)

I replaced the stock CPU heatsink/fan to a Zalman unit - one of the top rated, I may add. And it reduced my CPU temps by ~ 20 degrees.

Replacing my Nvidia 6150LE piece of garbage video card to an Nvidia 6800GS SW CO card - which has a decent fan and a pure copper heatsink.

Other factors come in as well, like - have you excluded the GalCiv folders (both in Program Files and in My Documents...) from real-time virus scanning? Because filtering all the files accessed while playing the game through a virus scanner can lead to slowdowns - if not crashes.

As well as eliminating any other background processes/programs that may interfere with the game. (as in, anything not essential to the smooth running of my computer on an on-going basis)

Moosetek13,


Hmmm - I don't think I totally agree with this statement, this might be splitting hairs but ...

Hardware components (RAM, CPU, GPU etc.) are all designed and manufactured to run within certain tolerances. Generally those tolerances are chosen based on "normal operating conditions" + a bit of head room.

Manufacturing processes churn out chips whose actual operational tolerances will vary from chip to chip, testing and sampling techniques during manufacture will ensure that those accepted and sold will almost all (statistically) have tolerances within the chosen ones.

Now, suppose you got a chip which was just within the tolerance levels - still "perfect" as per design. Now suppose that a game stressed a machine beyond the chosen tolerances - there is a chance that it will over-stress the chip.

If you are thinking that the above is highly unlikely then have a search on the forum's right here - early versions of GC2 had a slight problem whereby they were generating too many frames per second and graphics cards were overheating - do that too often to a graphics card and you can start to do damage. A patch to allow the frame rate to be throttled back was quickly released to solve the problem.

It could be argued that the GPU's were "weak", or the RAM in this case, but I'd doubt you would get a manufacturer to accept that.

I agree with everything else you're saying - systems need to built such that all components are working together efficiently and you need to minimize the "clutter" running on them.

On the subject of "clutter" I am almost always horrified when I look at anyone else's system these days by the amount of rubbish left running. A quick look at the icons in the taskbar tray almost always shows it stretching far across to the left with sometimes dozens of useless rubbish - and if you ask they wont have a clue what most of them are. IMHO there's no need for more than about 6 (give or take 2). Any more and ask yourself what they are and if you are using them. And don't get me started on Startup items ...

Moosetek13,

I'm wondering if I need to put up a sign that says "comments about killing RAM are tongue-in-cheek," because, seriously... Okay, I am pretty certain that TA dealt the killing blow here, even if it was in bad shape - and it could've been in bad shape. But I'm with WebReg here, if software can't harm hardware, why do gaming rigs need so much cooling? What's the harm in letting it run hot? Note, I'm not excusing running without cooling - my CPU and video card are both kept pretty cool.

Thanks for the advice - most of it is stuff I've already done. I know how to close down programs (even those few icons in the taskbar) when I'm going to run a game. Even though my motherboard and CPU are a bit dated (hence limited to 2 gb of RAM ), most everything else is pretty much up to date, except perhaps for fans aimed at the RAM itself. I don't run anti-virus at all when I'm gaming, only when I'm not using my system.

I have 11 running in my system tray. So, maybe, 10 - give or take 2.

lol

But I do keep track of what is running as background tasks.

As to...
"Hardware components (RAM, CPU, GPU etc.) are all designed and manufactured to run within certain tolerances. Generally those tolerances are chosen based on "normal operating conditions" + a bit of head room."

Well, that all depends on the manufacturer, and what their intended 'audience' is.
And then, you must define "normal operating conditions". Does GalCiv2 fall within "normal"?
?
Why, or why not?

Some are out only to make money, while some are out to provide a quality product under [U]every [/U]condition.

For software to directly, and be the sole cause of, hardware damage, it would have to be written by an incompetant idiot - and/or be written with malicious intent, even then you have to work at it to cause significant damage. Stardock certainly is not in that category. Like many others I have played Immense with no issues (given a few BETA bugs being zapped over time) for hours/days, there has to be other causes.

You took out a RAM stick and it appeared to run fine from your description - is it still ok? If so there is either a bad RAM stick, incompatible RAM stick or it was seated incorrectly - they can work slightly loose over time with heating and cooling, and often just reseating them can resolve things. It may be a separately bought stick and is slightly incompatible re timings - that can often not surface until you run an application that uses hardware to the full. A single stick can cause issues, most motherboards require sticks to be bought in matched pairs.

Run a temperature monitor, there are zillions out there on the Web, and check - in particular - cpu and motherboard temperatures. I had an issue once (not via GC2) where I was cursing away blaming this that and the other, whilst my PC constantly tripped out and rebooted. Then it dawned on me I had not checked the cpu/cooling for a while, and had become a bit lazy with the pc housekeeping routine. I opened up the case and the top of the cpu/cpu fan was encased in matted dust. It was badly overheating, and constantly tripped out as a safety measure to stop the thing burning out. A clean up with an airbrush of the cpu, fans and psu fans soon sorted that, leaving me an embarassed but wiser person having relearnt yet again an age old lesson re pc's and housekeeping.

If its still misbehaving maybe you could give a "blow by blow" account of whats happening, someone out there will have come acoss it before, and know the solution. Its very rare the latter is not the case. In any event, dont blame the software for such reoccuring faults, GC2 is way past the Stage where even benign bugs will cause such constant rebooting - 99.999999% certain its a hardware fault.

Regards
Zy

I do, but I exclude certain things from the real-time scanning engine - such as GalCiv.
I just make sure I run a full scan now and then, just in case something has slipped in.

Sorry my last cross posted with yours - I am not the fastest typer in the world  :LOL: 

They need cooling in the same way that a car needs a good cooling system. The faster you run a car, the hotter it gets as it has to work harder for its living over an equivalent period of time. The cooling system needs to be good to get rid of the heat produced as you go faster, if the system is a weak one, you overheat - think of the onset of a very hot Summer, side of the road is littered with overheated cars, the additional external heat finished them off as the internal cooling system performed badly.

Same with a PC. As a program demands more and more of its resource over an equivalent period of time, more and more of the internal circuits are used with less time for periodic cooling. If there is not an efficient cooling/fan system, it can fall over. It matters, not only because of the obvious trip outs, but because over time the constant heating to near maximum design limits - or even over design limits - stresses out the material used in the circuit boards.

Constant heating and cooling beyond design limits will degrade the metal in the circuits carrying the data, eventually they will degrade to the point of not being able to carry the data, or even melt to the point where some circuits have a physical break in them. The latter happens when you "Fry" the motherboard - ie it is constantly stressed beyond design limits, and eventually it gives up like the car on the side of the road. As you get near to that point, you get wierd symptoms happening, which are a tap on the shoulder to do something. Motherboard issues as described are actually rare these days, but still do occur, particularly when badly cooled, or early symptoms are ignored.

Dont jump to "doom and gloom" conclusions on your issues, I am sure its less draconian, the above is only in response to your highlighted questions.

Regards
Zy

Well, you definitely need to get rid of a few
It really boils down to this (for each icon):
- do you know what they are and what they do?
- are they serving either an essential or useful purpose at this time?
If the answer to either of the above questions is "no" then they should not be there.

Almost all PC's are, sadly, bought with little or no knowledge of the components being used in them. At most the purchaser will know:
- the CPU model
- what graphics card
- how much RAM
- how much disk space
and only a small percentage of purchasers will understand the implications of even the above scant information.

... and it does depend on the manufacturer ...

Take my own machine. I count myself as an expert - mostly on the software side but I certainly know my way round the innards of a system. I've never gone as far as building my own machine but the concept doesn't frighten me. Actually I probably have, now that I think about it, I just haven't done it in one go - the dustman's broom.

Anyway - a year ago I decided to push the boat out and bought myself a "gaming rig" - pre-built by a largish on-line supplier (MESH - for UK readers) that was cutting edge - but not bleeding edge (I'm not totally daft). This was, allegedly, built using "the best components, configured for maximum performance".

What do I find when I get it?

Among other things:

- the RAM was set on default timings - which were grossly under-utilising it
- the SATA disks were also set on inadequate default setting.

Net result after fixing those two items - 20+% performance boost by benchmarks and a much punchier system in real use.

Knowledge is the key - without it your going to be limited to an "adequate" system.

It's not the immense galaxy. I ran an immense galaxy on my laptop (1GB RAM and a terrible video card) without problems. It got a little jerky after a few hours of play, but a simple restart of the game or the whole machine fixed it. Though, it could be that I was playing on immense with rare habitable planets...?

*high fives the other girl gamer*
I followed almost your exact path to this game... MoO, MoO2, Galactic Imperium, MoO3 (Blargh!), GalCiv, and GalCiv2. I love 4X games, and probably will be getting Sins of a Solar Empire too if the demo looks good.

Zydor,


I agree with the "sole cause of" bit but not the "incompetent idiot" etc. bit.
Software is designed, implemented and tested on only a small sub-set of possible system configurations (both hardware and software configurations).
Those possible configurations are also expanding hourly as new hardware and software hits the streets, even after your software is released.
Add to this the fact most software is implemented using tools written by third parties, often distributed and installed by other third party software, all which you have no direct control over or real knowledge of how well it does its job.

The above facts of life lead to a very fluid operating environment for software and conditions under which mutual incompatibilities can and do lead to unforeseen problems. 99.999% of the time these will be limited to runtime issues and simple "bugs". But you can't say that in the other, more serious, cases that the software engineers must have been incompetent or deliberately trying to cause damage.

In a software sense true - bugs happen, as always, its life, no way can any software be guaranteed to run perfectly in all scenarios, never happen.

However in a hardware sense you do have to be a serious clown to release software that frys hardware, simple Alpha/Beta testing resolves that. Are mistakes made at machine code level when programming bios or registers or compilers? Of course there are. However even programming at that level, for released versions to hit the streets that contain bugs that fry hardware, is a wholely avoidable scenario and equates literally to the henious crime of putting diesel in a petrol tank or visa versa.

Game software works at a different layer, above machine code level - albeit at times direct addressing is used - and it is true to say that its incompetance or malicious for a software writer to have code released above machine code level that frys hardware. You have to work seriously hard at doing it above machine code level, and have a particularly crazy QA system that allowed it through.

No way is Stardock in the latter category - hence the attempt to concentrate on real world issues for her hardware, not a one in infinity chance of doom and gloom.

we know GCII ,DL,DA,TA use allot of Ram the later is better on using it then DL is !! so I have some GEIL RAM !! 4 sticks that are 512
MB PC3500(433MHZ)Ultra Duel Channel So Yes Sold in Pairs!!!
Not Over Clock Running @ 400MHZ Not 433 Paired together NO GOOD!!!(4X 512 MB) Single Pair ( 2X 512 MB) OK no TROUBLE !! so is it the RAM or the MOTHER BOARD ??? The Geil Ram is suppose to be good gaming ram !!?? but as i found out 2 sticks and not 4 work well together. could be ram,motherboard = chip set,Slots,Setup.

My point is the game crash when i was trying to play it .

the computer ran ok as long as i did not play the game!!

but after the game crashing and not being able to play I started checking things out. I found it to be the RAM
Now the Game is about 95% crash free,... it still does when you are Beta testing new expansion pack

Your quite right to concentrate on the most probable cause of her problem - and try to help out with that. She has already stated that her "blaming" the game was largely tongue in cheek - it was just the last thing to touch it when it went - if it has in fact gone. But I got a little off topic there - sorry.

But I still take issue with calling people clowns and idiots (and no, it's never happened to me in 25+ years of software engineering) for issues that can and do happen which are largely outwith their control.

Alpha/Beta testing can never test all possible configurations - not in a finite amount of time. That threshold was crossed decades ago. All you can do is reduce the likelihood of catastrophic failure to a statistically insignificant improbability. In point of fact, I doubt most software engineers outwith the device driver fraternity have ever had to concern themselves with that possibility - I certainly haven't since the mid-80s - so I'm waffling about massively improbable hypothetical situations.

Yes - maliciousness or incompetence could cause it - but so could
- pure bad luck, or
- time - old games running on new hardware can't have been tested on that hardware.

I'll stop waffling now and go and do something much more constructive ...

For some reason this sounds like the name of a song to me.. ;p

From these posts it really seems that 2GB mem is the minimum for Galciv II?

I have only 1.5 GB RAM and DA runs reasonably well. I do play gigantic, but play with a largely empty galaxy.