The ethical war -(suggestions?)

Hello everyone,

I'm recently running into some problems in my games. I often find myself being powerful (top3 in military), however I find that everyone wants to goto war (and does)with me, and will not be persuaded otherwise.

Example, I was playing on a large map, and I had 3 or 4 civ's declare war on me. I attempted to gift 15 planets to each of them for peace (just to see what it would take), and they would not take it. Shortly after it ends up being a gangbang, and even though I'm high in the military scale, I cannot cope with a 7 on 1 for long, as someone will get 1 hull size larger then what I currently have(large or massive hulls), and once that happens, I start to fall quite rapidly.

This does not happen far in the game either (photon/ic torps, maybe first levels of phasors, and barely into barriers for defense with medium hulls being or becoming the galactic norm). I usually do have higher leveled weapons tech as well, so it ends up being aar of attrition. (Large hull with 28 lasers etc//)

This problem, per-se (Challenge is nice for sure but being ganged up on for the past 4 games is getting tiring especially when they won't peace for [my empire -1 planet]), is that this just started happening when I started playing Painful difficulty (I usually did tough), and it as happened with 3 different races (Alt,Drath,Drengin), so I a guessing it must be my playing style.

Any hints or suggestions? I think it has to do with ethics,(although with Drengin I was the only "evil" race left in the galaxy,) I tend to choose the evil choices more, but I do keep an eye on it, and when i can afford to choose good, I do choose it... I'm thinking it has to do with the number of planets I control/population compared to everyone else.. (I'm usually 1st in that regard...)

So while I can understand that the AI might see me as weak/population (regardless of bein 1/2/3 in mil), I am wondering how everyone else copes? I've recently changed my strategies a bit but it only delays the inevitable.

The only success so far has been to bribe people to fight each other to delay things, but this gets very expensive.

I usually play no TechTrade, Large, Common planets (both settings) with anom/asteroids rare, regular research.

Can anyone help provide some insight...maybe some similar situations and what you did, or a small tech tree of how YOU progress during the early/middle game?

Also what does "painful" difficulty provide the AI with bonus wise? Seems to me they get a modest miniaturization boost...but im sure someone knows the values...
7,605 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top
Hmm, that is strange that you are being ganged-up on so often. I don't really know what would cause it. Some ways to avoid war are to have a high military rating, a high diplomacy ability, trade routes, the same alignment, and to give in to demands. You could try doing each of those more, since your first priority in the game is to survive, and worry about domination later. Also, don't annoy the Drath, because they will use their super ability to make others attack you.
Reply #2 Top
I do not know wether that helps, since I only play "tough", but I play with tech-trading enabled. Then I buy others into wars with each other. Especially when I cannot stand a certain faction that threatens me, I pay them to attack the Altarians. Every good party in the game will then attack this one party and usually take it down.

I also never attack anyone except for the ones that are already nearly beaten and disliked by everyone.

And, from time to time, I gift and sell techs though that might give me a disadvantage. But honestly, how much better is Lasers III compared to Lasers II? Benefits in the weapon techs come at very small steps and thus, I pay a small prize (slightly stronger enemy) for a prizeless good (enemy not about to attack me).
Reply #3 Top
That sounds pretty bizarre. Usually I aim to avoid the "red zone" on the Military Timeline (if you're at about 50% of the military strength of another race, you're in for a beating for sure). Military really is a big deal in this game; if you're number one on military you're rated Most Powerful; the only thing that has ever caused another race to declare war on me (other than disgruntled former workers, of course) is their stronger military -- regardless of their alignment. (This latter actually bothers me enormously: why would "good" civilisations suddenly begin threatening, extorting, or just plain bullying less powerful ones? Doesn't sound very good to me...)

So trying to stay at the top with Military is a big priority for me. At a certain point around mid-game my civilisation just begins to snowball and, inevitably, every other civilisation has "Close" Relations with me (ahem.) but by then my military rating is 250, economy is 320, and research is 280, so I can't be sure that it's purely due to my military.

Anyway, there are obviously smaller details (and possibly also greater strategy) that contribute to your problem... I'd be very curious to find out what brings about this situation so consistently!

J.
Reply #4 Top

Hello everyone,

I'm recently running into some problems in my games. I often find myself being powerful (top3 in military), however I find that everyone wants to goto war (and does)with me, and will not be persuaded otherwise.

Example, I was playing on a large map, and I had 3 or 4 civ's declare war on me. I attempted to gift 15 planets to each of them for peace (just to see what it would take), and they would not take it. Shortly after it ends up being a gangbang, and even though I'm high in the military scale, I cannot cope with a 7 on 1 for long, as someone will get 1 hull size larger then what I currently have(large or massive hulls), and once that happens, I start to fall quite rapidly.

This does not happen far in the game either (photon/ic torps, maybe first levels of phasors, and barely into barriers for defense with medium hulls being or becoming the galactic norm). I usually do have higher leveled weapons tech as well, so it ends up being aar of attrition. (Large hull with 28 lasers etc//)

This problem, per-se (Challenge is nice for sure but being ganged up on for the past 4 games is getting tiring especially when they won't peace for [my empire -1 planet]), is that this just started happening when I started playing Painful difficulty (I usually did tough), and it as happened with 3 different races (Alt,Drath,Drengin), so I a guessing it must be my playing style.

Any hints or suggestions? I think it has to do with ethics,(although with Drengin I was the only "evil" race left in the galaxy,) I tend to choose the evil choices more, but I do keep an eye on it, and when i can afford to choose good, I do choose it... I'm thinking it has to do with the number of planets I control/population compared to everyone else.. (I'm usually 1st in that regard...)

So while I can understand that the AI might see me as weak/population (regardless of bein 1/2/3 in mil), I am wondering how everyone else copes? I've recently changed my strategies a bit but it only delays the inevitable.

The only success so far has been to bribe people to fight each other to delay things, but this gets very expensive.

I usually play no TechTrade, Large, Common planets (both settings) with anom/asteroids rare, regular research.

Can anyone help provide some insight...maybe some similar situations and what you did, or a small tech tree of how YOU progress during the early/middle game?

Also what does "painful" difficulty provide the AI with bonus wise? Seems to me they get a modest miniaturization boost...but im sure someone knows the values...


The Painful AI gets a 5-10%(not sure exactly) boost to economy and production. Only the Yor and Thalans get boosts to miniaturization.

Anyway, your problem seems to have been caused by the Drath. Their super ability has turned the galaxy on you(As it had done to me a few games ago). Instead of asking for peace, try to get your enemies to attack the Drath and Altarians especially(or any Super Manipulator/Organizer). Study the treaties screen to find civs which have low(Cool, Wary, Hostile) relations with each other and strike wars between these races. The worse relations two races have, the cheaper it is to invoke war between them. Even better if you're a Super Manipulator or Super Diplomat.

Also, bribing other civs to attack each other is MUCH easier with tech trading on. Lousy techs like Laser 3 or Titanium Armor 2 tend to take big chunks out of the cost of the bribe. Once you've got 2 civs into war with each other two times, it deteriorates relations between them for a very long time and makes them much easier to bribe. Yellow techs like Xeno Comm, Universal Translator, Diplomatic Relations, Advanced/Expert Diplomacy, Majesty, Total Majesty, Xeno Ethics, Good & Evil, Concepts, Interstellar Governments, Alliances, Interstellar Republic, Star Democracy and Star Federation all give you a diplomacy boost, making bribes, peace agreements and tech trades easier.

Yes, being Evil does make the AI races more likely to attack you. But it's not enough to justify the mega-bonuses of the Psyonic Beam, the Mind Control Center, the Artificial Slave Center, the No-Mercy Invasion Center, etc.

To prevent the AI from ganging up on you, send them lots of trade routes, give in to their demands, give them small gifts, ethically align yourself with them, research those diplomacy techs, and build the Spin-Control Center ASAP! The Spin-Control Center magnifies the power of the ships orbiting it by 5 times - giving you a mega-military rating and an instant ++ in relations with everyone.

If your military does get destroyed or severely outnumbered, build unarmed cargo hulls with lots of engines and sensors, and use these cargo hulls to guide small-hulled 'Interceptors'(lots of engines, 1 of your top weapon, and a few defense pieces) to destroy inbound transports/spores. The Interceptors themselves are better as Smalls since the AI sometimes arms their transports or fleets them with lightly-armed 'Escorts'. If the enemy's heavier warships try to destroy your sensor ships and interceptors, outrun them. The Super-Sensor/Interceptor combo works better for Super Isolationists(less engines required, so you can have more defenses) and Super Warriors(no defenses required, so you can have more weapons).
Reply #5 Top
What your describing is what you should expect if the galaxy is otherwise stable. There will be war sooner or later no matter how you play. The trap you fallen into is allowing you to be the one that they declare war on. You must be actively encouraging war elsewhere, preferably two well balanced empires as far apart from each other as possible. that way they keep busy, keep using up resources, and yet neither is likely to actually win.

You should be using this time to grow your empire by picking off the weak empires until you are too strong to be stopped. i know it will be expensive to bride such wars, but its more expensive not too.
Reply #6 Top
First of all, try and remember if the AI is being "PAID" to take care of you. Because as Nullspace replied in reply #1, The Drath will manipulate others into attacking you. Also what Notger writes in reply #2 about getting others to attack the Altarians, use that all the time, and keeps hostile AI off your butt for a while.
Reply #7 Top
Introducing a custom Evil Super Organizer and a Neutral one will give you 3 targets to make other civs fight against for practice. The Evil one would be the greatest, since they'll rally the Drengin, Korath, Yor and Korx to fight for them. This could also happen if the Altarians get the ethics-reversal event and turn evil. Being a Super Organizer yourself would also(for obvious reasons) help in this case.
Reply #8 Top
Thanks for the advice everyone, please feel free to keep adding or discussing the AI.
Reply #9 Top
Sounds like the Drath are causing the problem. In one of my games I had 8 or 9 races declare war within a couple turns because of them. That's why I always either ally with them or kill them first.