Some kind of topology for maps

from GalCiv2 Forums
What I miss in GalCiv games and what makes me go and play from time to time other games like Civilization, is that GalCiv has practically no topological features.

The easiest one to implement would be something like asteroid fields (non-mineable) which can not be passed at all. Then one can make something like black holes that also block a part of space.

I also would like to have something that I can build that changes the topology. Like lay the mines or built a wrap gates or something like railroads of Civ games. Currently we can use military stations for something like that, but they are expensive and rarely used by players or AI. Any comments?
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Not to throw cold water... but I like the way the current game sticks at least somewhat close to realism, with space being mostly empty and easy to cross between star systems and inside planetary systems.

The only "barriers" are areas of effect from military starbases, mobile enemy fleets, and asteroid fields. And even that latter isn't very realistic as something that blocks movement, since asteroids and other debris mostly orbit in one plane in real planetary systems. We've managed to send the Voyager probes out into (almost) interstellar space, twice the distance of Pluto from the Sun, without hitting anything.

I don't like fantasy effects like gas or dust nebulas that cause ships to slow down, or lose sensor range, or any of the other bizarre effects you see in Star Trek episodes. That's just arbitrary and unrealistic, IMO... devices to drive a storyline. Player-built mine fields don't make sense to me either, considering the huge volume of space they'd need to cover.

Maybe I'm just being an old "hard sci-fi" curmudgeon here, but I like the current game design where space is open and easy to cross, unless someone gets in your way and starts shooting at you. Space-based games don't need to copy all the conventions of terrain-based strategy games to be challenging. On the larger and more thinly-populated galaxy maps, just dealing with all that open distance is itself a challenge, until you tech up to faster ships, longer range, and better sensors. Without that feeling of vast emptiness between worlds, it just wouldn't feel like a space game to me.

P.S. on the idea of impassable asteroid fields... I think that can be done with the map editor for a custom scenario, although it does use the mine-able fields. Brad posted this one in an AAR/demo for DA:

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Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"I don't like fantasy effects like gas or dust nebulas that cause ships to slow down,"

Are you sure that wrap drive will work in gas or dust nebulae? It is quite possible that in order to "wrap" the space one needs very clear vacuum, more clear than in the nebulae.

But in any case I am of course more worried about the gameplay.

That, plus I want something like railroad (or wrap-road) which would significantly accelerate the ships, like +5 or times-2 movement.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, you can do that, at least in part, by laying out a string of military starbases with ship speed augmenting modules.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah, I know, but this comes only later in the game and it is not reflected visually on the map.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"I don't like fantasy effects like gas or dust nebulas that cause ships to slow down,"

Are you sure that wrap drive will work in gas or dust nebulae? It is quite possible that in order to "wrap" the space one needs very clear vacuum, more clear than in the nebulae.

But in any case I am of course more worried about the gameplay.


Well, there isn't much actual clear vacuum out there, at least inside a galaxy. Gas molecules and dust are everywhere in very low concentrations (a few molecules per cubic kilometer). We tend to notice the very slightly thicker concentrations when it's close to a star that's energizing and lighting them up with ionization, like the Orion nebula, or reflected light from dust like the Pleiades. But there's plenty of low-density "dark" gas and dust out there that isn't energized or illuminated. A starship would need to deal with it as a normal part of the environment, using a force field, or ablative shield, or just warping into a parallel hyperdrive dimension that isn't affected by matter in normal space. Pick your sci-fi tech.

Anyway, my point is that there just isn't that much difference between the environment of a gas or dust nebula, and what we call open space... which isn't that empty if you're moving through it fast enough. If a starship can transit between star systems at all, then it should be able to fly right through just about anything out there.

That, plus I want something like railroad (or wrap-road) which would significantly accelerate the ships, like +5 or times-2 movement.


That might be interesting, if it wasn't too common. Maybe two or three "spacelanes" per map, with the end-points randomized? I don't know how it would be explained, but then a lot of things in the game are pretty vague about the tech background... like exactly how starbases can speed up movement, or how the Yor manage to magically slow ships down in their area of influence. That one in particular really seems wonky, but I'm not above taking advantage of it when playing the Yor.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top


Anyway, my point is that there just isn't that much difference between the environment of a gas or dust nebula, and what we call open space...


...except one crucial difference - density. If you want to be even more sci-fi-entific, then one can say that the wrap drive capability of "warping" the space is inversely proportional to the density of the matter in the surrounding space. This, by the way, would perfectly explain why it takes only slightly longer time to travel between the stars, where density is lower than to travel between the planets, where density is much higher. So I see quite "realistic" to have some gas nebulae that so significantly slow down the wrap drive powered ship so that it essentially is impassible to go through them.

And imagine the beautiful graphics that can go with it - gas nebula coming out from some star system...


That, plus I want something like railroad (or wrap-road) which would significantly accelerate the ships, like +5 or times-2 movement.


That might be interesting, if it wasn't too common. Maybe two or three "spacelanes" per map, with the end-points randomized? I don't know how it would be explained, but then a lot of things in the game are pretty vague about the tech background... like exactly how starbases can speed up movement, or how the Yor manage to magically slow ships down in their area of influence. That one in particular really seems wonky, but I'm not above taking advantage of it when playing the Yor.


Option #1 you can build it yourself by constructors. The # of wrap lines would be limited by technology level, similar like the number of trade roots. May be even the global amount is limited as well, like special projects, you build it and no one can build it more.

Option #2, if I remember the lore correctly, before the terrans invented the wrap drives, the inter-star travel was done through the gates. So, this could be some kind of faster gate system from ancient civilization.

More over, the wrap anomalies (or what you call it?) are already in the game, but they for some mysterious reason disappear after the explorer travels through them one time.