About that Map Tool...

from Sins Forums
I want to know if the Map tool will allow us to make custom planet entries for a particular map,

Right now, you can make a map whereby people have a unique homeworld, like say a Terran with 10 resource asteroids, or a Pirate Base... but to do so you need to mod the actual game files, not just create a new map file.

This is annoying as it means that anyone who wants to play such a map will need to Mod their entire game to do so, meaning theyd need to uninstall to play regular online games, whereas if the editor combines this into the map file...

you could play regular games without worry, and play the special map with those who have the map in question.

I just would like to know if the editor will do this now so I can start planning if I need to make a 'planet variety' mod.
modding
10,324 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Well, hopefully the promised Mod Manager will be of use if you can't do that via the map editor -- but I think there are ways to modify maps so that you have extra asteroids, I've seen another map with it before, I believe.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
There's a default scenario map that starts off your homeworld with 4 rocks, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is..

So assuming we get pretty much the same map editor Ironclad has been using, it should be doable within the map without having to modify the core files.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Well, hopefully the promised Mod Manager will be of use if you can't do that via the map editor -- but I think there are ways to modify maps so that you have extra asteroids, I've seen another map with it before, I believe.


Nope, not possible.

If they don't change the .galaxy files considerably (and a I doubt they will, with that little time remaining until release) it will only be possible by moding the planet files themselves.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah there are a few existing variable Home Worlds... but the map you are thinking of Ron is probablly my old one... I experimented and made over a dozen different asteroid worlds and a random entry for them, which gives the game way more variety...

But you have to mod the game files for that map to work instead of just the map. Its a pain and at the moment its pretty bland... if youve seen one volcanic planet youve seen them all.

If this doesn't change I will work on a map makers mod that includes lots and lots of different planet entries, if we make it a standardized package then we can make a ton of cool maps without having to have each one Be its own mod.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
For example will I be able to use the map maker to do this without modding the game files:




Thats a Player Homeworld in a map I made.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I think what will end up happening is that you will have to modify the planet files to change the characteristics of the planets (such as how many resources/asteroids, upgrade levels etc) but that the mod system will allow you to distribute these easily without uninstalling etc.

This isn't the final word, but that's how it looks at the moment.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Well if that pans out that would be splendid...

Thanks for the 'possible' heads up.

It suggests I will have to start working on more planet entries now...

A comprehensive standard pack for map makers...

Each Planet type with 0-7 resource asteroids (excluding dead asteroids and Gas Giants)
is 40 new entries alone, add on top of that copies of every one of those possibilities that A. Forces a 'Pourous Core' B. Forces a 'Heavy Core' (for people who want games with smaller or larger G-Wells)

Thats 120 Entries. Now say we add a Home World of each planet type that 'acts' just like the standard homeworld, that way you can have fair standard games, but the visual pleasantness of a Ice HW, thats another ... including Pirate world.. 6, add unto that custom HWs of each type that are say 'heavy' as in expandedly nice thats another 6, then add unto that a unique HW that doesnt make the HW equate to standard and you get another 6.

So 138 and counting. Now I need to include Variants of the anomalies;

There are 4 anomaly abilities, I would need to put in entries for a version of each anomaly planet (Ion/Magnetic/Gas Giant/A-Field) that replicates each ability, IE Gas Giants that have solar regen instead of explosives. Thats 12 entries, now for mixture versions that have 2 abilities... combinations of anti-fighter and anti-antimatter, anti-antimatter and Explosive, and anti-fighter and explosive. As well as anti-fighter and Regen, regen and explosive, Thats five types by 4 anomalies. Thats an additional 20 and +4 for versions with NO abilities.

174

Now For a version of the Stars that, (4 Star Types Right?)

A. No Ability
B. Solar +AA
C. Solar +AF
D. Solar +Ex
E. Ex
F. AA
G. AF
H. AA-AF
I. AF-Ex
J. AA-Ex

Thats 40 more entries...

214

OH and each Planet Type needs to not only vary the number of Resource Asteroids, but the TYPE on it, so lets just say another 40.

Thats 254

Now I need entries for fun stuff, like asteroids that force Pirate Loot, Planets that are pre-inhabited by pirates and require bombardment, planets with tougher militia forces, Worlds with particular Artifacts. Worlds with more than 7 resource asteroids...

And of course stuff that might not work, making NEW planet types like Jungle, Barren, Oceanic. And converting a new resource asteroid into a moon model; and Nebulas with NEW abilities. Not to mention whatever addons the release version requires me to rethink, like extra or new planetary abilities, like the ion storm.

Thats AT LEAST 300-350 Entries for a comprehensive inclusive map maker's mod. That is only the RAW planet entries, on top of that I have to make random generator entries for all the planets and asteroids and storms...

I don't even want to think about that math.

I Need Help don't I?
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I Need Help don't I?


They have pills for that.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
                      

MY emotional ups and downs considering the work I must now undertake... but if I dont... each 'cool' or rather unique map will require a different mod for it, which which is just so... disorganized. Maybe the forge tools will make it easier on me than copying and pasting until my eyes boil away into their sockets and drip out scalding my face.

  
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
my eyes boil away into their sockets and drip out scalding my face.


Picture!

On second thought, maybe not.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I suggest learning yourself a scripting language (Perl, Python, Ruby, Lua, ...) and making a program that iterates over all the possible combinations and auto-generates these files for you. Less work in the long run.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I suggest learning yourself a scripting language (Perl, Python, Ruby, Lua, ...) and making a program that iterates over all the possible combinations and auto-generates these files for you. Less work in the long run.


Yeah, probably. Except it might just be a lot more work to learn, then write, the program than to just do the work. Of course, if he then needs to change something... yeah, learning a scripting program would be helpful!
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, probably. Except it might just be a lot more work to learn, then write, the program than to just do the work. Of course, if he then needs to change something... yeah, learning a scripting program would be helpful!


Nah, changing the amount of asteroids in the planet files takes about 5 seconds, renaming the files and adding it to the definition file takes much more time then that.

Planets that are pre-inhabited by pirates and require bombardment, planets with tougher militia forces,


Actually you can set this stuff in the .galaxy file.

And of course stuff that might not work, making NEW planet types like Jungle, Barren, Oceanic. And converting a new resource asteroid into a moon model; and Nebulas with NEW abilities. Not to mention whatever addons the release version requires me to rethink, like extra or new planetary abilities, like the ion storm.


Making new planet types is as easy as making a good looking mesh with corresponding textures. So... yeah.. well...

If you're still at this after the game's released (not much sense in trying something like this before release) I would volunteer to help. So don't worry about your sanity.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah Vandenburg, I know you have to alter it in the Game.ini

How else did I make that picture with a pirate base and 5 resource asteroids? I've already made a few entries back in the day for experimentation, all of what I said above is possible, and the fact that you'd be willing to help (After release of course!) would be extremely useful!

Bah I refuse to learn any such scripting. So good old fashioned work it is!

Something that might not be possible- Special Planets that yield minerals from themselves. Could be a cool feature for volcanic.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
@Gauntlet

Sorry, I didn't want to imply that you don't know how to do it. It was more meant as a general remark and about the difficulty of making planetary textures (which I'm currently unable to do decently) .

Something that might not be possible- Special Planets that yield minerals from themselves. Could be a cool feature for volcanic.


We could probably force that by making a new planet bonus that generates resources and then force the planet to have that ability by using requiredPlanetBonusesCount 0. Unfortunately such a planet probably would have then only one bonus, since else it would still be by chance, but better then nothing, I guess.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Acutally you can force a particular bonus, and allow it to still have random bonuses, I've done that, its fun!

There are lines in planet definitions for 'required bonuses' (pirate planets Loot)

and for random bonuses.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I'd suggest not doing any mass-production work on the files before the final release as they are likely to change.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah I just did actually- merely for the sake of proving the concept of randomizing and variable numbers of resource asteroids...

But I'll wait until release to really get going, this is only 25 new planets, and 5 Random Entries,

I made a random entry for any true planet, one for true planets but not Ice, one for any asteroid, one for 50/50 chance of any asteroid and any anomaly (I counted Gas Giants as such) and finally a PURE random entry that equally favors any class of planet or anomaly, but allows for variants (200 type count on that entry lol)

Only took 2 Hours


LONG POST:

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entityDefName "-PlanetDesert1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetDesert1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetDesert1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetDesert1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetDesert1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid1M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid1M2C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M0C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid3M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid3M2C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
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entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
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entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "-PlanetAsteroid2M1C"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
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entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetMagneticCloud"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetPlasmaStorm"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetAsteroidBelt"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetGasGiant"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
entityDefName "PlanetDeadAsteroid"
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
There are lines in planet definitions for 'required bonuses' (pirate planets Loot)


Wohoo!

Must have overlooked that. Silly me. Opens up quite some concepts.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Read above- all those entries I suggested for planet which force Heavy or Pourous cores...

this means we CAN change a given maps average gravity well size! You see what I am saying? depending on how that editor works, we may or maynot have to create a enourmous library of planet types, if we compile a huge enough chunk into one mod, this will allow us to have one mod for literally dozens-hundreds of maps with very unique lay outs and tactics. For example, we could have maps where the planet in the middle is always a heavy core Volcanic, with 9 metal asteroids, you could even set the levels of planet tactical points... the great middile has NONE!

See that would change an entire game, the middile would be very appealing to own, but REQUIRE a constant fleet present to defend, as well as being a large enough Gwell for some big multi-fleet movements...