KFC Kickin For Christ KFC Kickin For Christ

This is a Values Test

This is a Values Test

Well here you go for those who didn't see this op-ed in the NY Times. It's the beginning of organizing the evangelical vote at a meeting in Salt Lake City. The purpose was to discuss what would happen if Giuliani or another GOP candidate who doesn't represent them is elected to be the nominee. It was titled "The Values Test."

by James C. Dobson, Ph.D., founder and chairman

Dr. Dobson says winning an election is important, but not at the expense of our core beliefs.

Reports have surfaced in the press about a meeting that occurred last Saturday in Salt Lake City involving more than 50 pro-family leaders. The purpose of the gathering was to discuss our response if both the Democratic and Republican Parties nominate standard-bearers who are supportive of abortion. Although I was neither the convener nor the moderator of the meeting, I’d like to offer several brief clarifications about its outcome and implications.

After two hours of deliberation, we voted on a resolution that can be summarized as follows: If neither of the two major political parties nominates an individual who pledges himself or herself to the sanctity of human life, we will join others in voting for a minor-party candidate. Those agreeing with the proposition were invited to stand. The result was almost unanimous.

The other issue discussed at length concerned the advisability of creating a third party if Democrats and Republicans do indeed abandon the sanctity of human life and other traditional family values. Though there was some support for the proposal, no consensus emerged.

Speaking personally, and not for the organization I represent or the other leaders gathered in Salt Lake City, I firmly believe that the selection of a president should begin with a recommitment to traditional moral values and beliefs. Those include the sanctity of human life, the institution of marriage, and other inviolable pro-family principles. Only after that determination is made can the acceptability of a nominee be assessed.

The other approach, which I find problematic, is to choose a candidate according to the likelihood of electoral success or failure. Polls don’t measure right and wrong; voting according to the possibility of winning or losing can lead directly to the compromise of one’s principles. In the present political climate, it could result in the abandonment of cherished beliefs that conservative Christians have promoted and defended for decades. Winning the presidential election is vitally important, but not at the expense of what we hold most dear.

One other clarification is germane, even though unrelated to the meeting in Salt Lake City. The secular news media has been reporting in recent months that the conservative Christian movement is hopelessly fractured and internally antagonistic. The Los Angeles Times reported on Monday, for example, that supporters of traditional family values are rapidly “splintering.” That is not true. The near unanimity in Salt Lake City is evidence of much greater harmony than supposed. Admittedly, differences of opinion exist among us about our choices for president.

That divergence is entirely reasonable, now just over a year before the national election. It is hardly indicative of a “splintering” of old alliances. If the major political parties decide to abandon conservative principles, the cohesion of pro-family advocates will be all too apparent in 2008.


10,177 views 36 replies
Reply #26 Top
With a DEMOCRAT Congress, KFC? Nope. If she has a Democratic majority, she'll be able to pass everything she wants to.


Yes, but again that is if she even gets in (I doubt she will) and second of all how many seats will be up for grabs in the next year?

You call yourself pro-life, KFC, and I believe you. But what about the lives of those children raised by Hillary's "village" because their parents couldn't afford to pay the electric bill?


I can't answer this question Gid. I am not aware of the numbers in the foster care system, now and say 10 years ago without doing some HW. I do know that we have loving parents around us that are involved in foster care. Two families here in my chuch have adopted at least 3 of these children. They are very fortunate children who in very good homes.

Yup. There's that condescension again.


You say condescension...I say encouragement. We say that around here alot. Where's your faith? To help wake us up to remember who/what to focus on. Christians are to encourage one another; spur each other on. It's not said in a negative tone. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Sooooo exactly how empty is that glass Gid.....  ?

You just confirmed it. You're secretly hoping Hillary ushers in Armageddon. Good show.


not necessarily. I mean if it happens it happens. God is in control. Whether we vote for Hillary or not. God has a predetermined time when the end will be the end and he will not be a second late. It has nothing to do with our voting practice. It's clear by scripture that it is he who sets the kings upon their thrones. He will allow or disallow according to his plan, not ours.

Besides all this? I am totally convinced the "right wing" is NOT going to get Rudy elected. That's why I keep saying I think Huckabee is the guy. I really DON'T think it will be Rudy anyway. He has too much baggage. Time will tell. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But right now, I just can't see or believe it.









Reply #27 Top
Well, all she needs to do is introduce legislation that basically creates a relationship between the US and EU member nations similar to what the EU member nations already has, and we will have lost national sovereignty.


oh, please. I haven't seen 1 EU nation actually loosing their sovereignty. And such agreement would have to be ratified on a scale never seen before by many legislation in the USA.

I see a lot of "fear spreading" about Mrs Clinton over here, a lot based on simple propaganda. I mean, she can't do worst than Bush did.

After all, what Bush declared BEFORE his presidency and what he did DURING it are two different things. Why it wouldn't be the same with Clinton?
Reply #28 Top
I see a lot of "fear spreading" about Mrs Clinton over here, a lot based on simple propaganda. I mean, she can't do worst than Bush did.


See, that's another rationale that I consider mindboggling. "She can't leave a bigger mess than Bush did so let's just elect her".

The truth is, cikomyr, I view George W. Bush as one of our worst presidents ever, if not THE worst. I don't view an alternative as acceptable simply because they can't do worse. You're going to have to do better than that!

KFC,

If all of the conservative Christians "take a walk" as Dobson has suggested, then the Democrats will win IN A LANDSLIDE because the vote is split. I honestly believe that is exactly what Dobson wants, and every pamphlet, book, or tape I have from his organization is now headed for the landfill.
Reply #29 Top
The truth is, cikomyr, I view George W. Bush as one of our worst presidents ever, if not THE worst. I don't view an alternative as acceptable simply because they can't do worse. You're going to have to do better than that!


Not my point. I mean, many people here are describing her as the worst thing that can happen to the USA, which IS mindboggling, to say the truth, as they just come out of one of the worst administration to run this country. The worst thing that can happen already happened. Tell me HOW the USA could have been (rationnaly) even weaker now than they actually are?

Hillary Clinton seems to be a pretty decent administrator, and she manages to lead in good ways. She also probably will have both house under her, and a possible filibuster-breaker majority in Senate, making the governement the most united ever in the past 50 years.
Reply #30 Top
She also probably will have both house under her, and a possible filibuster-breaker majority in Senate, making the governement the most united ever in the past 50 years.


Meaning that the politics of ONE political persuasion will dominate. That's never a good thing, cikomyr. Ever.

I am a firm believer that one reason Bill Clinton's administration enjoyed such success was because the President and the Congress were controlled by different parties. This meant there had to be negotiation to get anything past the table. It started out rough, but most people agree it worked rather effectively.

While I am admitting to the hyperbolic nature of this illustration up front, cikomyr, I will say Hitler was a good administrator. The point I am making in saying this is not to equate Hillary with Hitler, but to say that a good administrator does not necessarily mean that the end result is a government we desire.

Tell me HOW the USA could have been (rationnaly) even weaker now than they actually are?


Easy. By continuing with an abyssmally failed foreign policy (Ms. Clinton, for your information, has rubber stamped virtually every foreign policy decision of this administration!), and implementing an equally disastrous domestic policy. By continuing the push towards censorship (HILLARY has been leading the charge towards censorship against video games, and one need look no further than Jena to see that free speech is pretty much on the outs in this country, and the Dems are at the helm of the ship driving it out!) as well as making criminals out of those who do not carry health insurance (yes, that is the Hillary "plan"; she is the largest recipient of money from the health care lobby by FAR), Hillary can very well make things, not only worse, but MUCH more so.

But I suppose you'll just call that spreading fear and half truth. After all, you are the expert on US government, are you not?
Reply #31 Top
Not my point. I mean, many people here are describing her as the worst thing that can happen to the USA, which IS mindboggling, to say the truth,


I think you are over generalizing. She is not the worst thing that can happen to the US and I have not seen anyone say that. For a Nuclear war, or a rogue comet would be far worse and no one is arguing that.

But as far as candidates go, she is the worst. Of all the candidates, I see them as beleiving in America and what it stands for (thank god Kerry is not running). SHe only believes in herself and power. She has a lot in common with tin plated dictators around the world, hardly anything with any great statesmen tho.
Reply #32 Top
Easy. By continuing with an abyssmally failed foreign policy (Ms. Clinton, for your information, has rubber stamped virtually every foreign policy decision of this administration!),


Yup, but on the other hand, Bush so-called "good" foreign policy has alienated the USA at unprecedent level worldwide, even your allies are less sure about following you into new military ventures now. NATO is less eager to send troops along yours.

Now forgetting that the USA Army's infantry power is critically overused and underavailable. If a pandemic was to be declared in the USA (like the Avian Flu), a quick scramble of manpower would be necessary to control it (like in "Executive Order", nice little book). The USA are not ready anymore to face that kind of treath that would require a large amount of manpower.

So... I don'T really see how the USA are in anyway STRONGER now than they were before the Bush administration, either diplomaticly or on a military level. Say what you can about the Clinton's administration, but they left the country in a ready-state, and with stronger allies than Bush can ever hope to.

But I suppose you'll just call that spreading fear and half truth. After all, you are the expert on US government, are you not?


Not really. And no, I won't call that spreading fear and half-trugh, because in that case, you are right about your facts.

Reply #33 Top
It's going to be a tough one. They say you should never vote with your heart--you should vote with your mind.I'm an outsider but I'm betting on a Clinton.
Reply #34 Top
Whether I vote for her or against her, she's probably going to win my state anyway. My voice can only count to make a third party a reality in the next election. If I throw my vote to a candidate I don't like anyway, I AM throwing my vote away.

But before I do that I will look more closely at the voting record around here to make sure we're really a blue state, and not one of those wishy-washy states. Haven't been here that long.
Reply #35 Top
I'm an outsider but I'm betting on a Clinton.


Betting she is going to win? Or hoping she does?
Reply #36 Top
I can't think of any major candidate more totalitarianistic than Hillary. That is why she is so dangerous for the US.