Apart from Global Warming

from JoeUser Forums
The argument human activity is causing global warming is rather difficult to deny or accept in a whimsical planet driven by geological time. What is certain is the population and industrial explosion worldwide taxing the natural balancing act of the globe because humans—and there are more of them coming—make greater demands on the planet’s resources and stripping it of sensible and necessary conservation. Back in the ’50s and ’60s California, in particular the major cities, it was blanketed in smog that probably had contributed somewhat to global warming, but more importantly it degraded the quality of living, aesthetically and medically. Harassing the auto manufacturers then surely was the impetus for catalytic converters and unleaded gas so that Californians and the rest of us could breathe again. So high emissions are not pretty apart from global warming and the planet’s stability. Granted such entries as “Inconvenient Truth” and its ilk of melodramatics ticks off those of us who don’t want to change our stubborn ways of consuming—big cars, big homes, abundance of appliances and gadgets—upsetting our convenient truths, we should nonetheless acknowledge that there isn’t an either/or crisis, but surely a reasonable tempered-between in a growing industrialized globe that could possibly cause a meltdown in the future. It wouldn’t hurt for all of us to stop and think at least for posterity’s sake.
politics
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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

such entries as “Inconvenient Truth” and its ilk of melodramatics ticks off those of us who don’t want to change our stubborn ways of consuming—big cars, big homes, abundance of appliances and gadgets—upsetting our convenient truths,

See, that is not the major objection to the new religious propaganda offerings.  My objection, and many like me, comes in is in 2 parts.

First, while we do not deny that global warming exists, we have yet to see any empiracle data to suggest that it is caused by man.  Pollution is a problem, and should be dealt with because of its inherant ill effects.  but that does not mean it is causing global warming.  You are old enough to remember the rage of Global Cooling 30 years ago.

Second, and it follows from the first, since we do not know what is causing global warming, trying to "fix" it may make the problem worse. It is akin to a surgeon not knowing why a patient is not feeling well, so he goes in to do a kidney transplant.  Bad news.  Sometimes it is better to do nothing when you do not understand the problem or what you are doing.

if this period of global warming is a natural one, and we somehow effect a climate change to stop or reverse it, then what happens when the earth goes through another period of global cooling (which some climatologist claim will happen in about 15 years)?  Instead of having cold winters, we might have cold summers as well!

Quite frankly, the data showing man is responsible for global warming is fatally flawed. it requires the interpreter to ignore key decades, and squint to see relationships that have not been proven to be cause and effect, and indeed are better suited to be effect and cause.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
The argument human activity is causing global warming is rather difficult to deny or accept in a whimsical planet driven by geological time. What is certain is the population and industrial explosion worldwide taxing the natural balancing act of the globe because humans—and there are more of them coming—make greater demands on the planet’s resources and stripping it of sensible and necessary conservation. Back in the ’50s and ’60s California, in particular the major cities, it was blanketed in smog that probably had contributed somewhat to global warming, but more importantly it degraded the quality of living, aesthetically and medically. Harassing the auto manufacturers then surely was the impetus for catalytic converters and unleaded gas so that Californians and the rest of us could breathe again. So high emissions are not pretty apart from global warming and the planet’s stability. Granted such entries as “Inconvenient Truth” and its ilk of melodramatics ticks off those of us who don’t want to change our stubborn ways of consuming—big cars, big homes, abundance of appliances and gadgets—upsetting our convenient truths, we should nonetheless acknowledge that there isn’t an either/or crisis, but surely a reasonable tempered-between in a growing industrialized globe that could possibly cause a meltdown in the future. It wouldn’t hurt for all of us to stop and think at least for posterity’s sake.


I understand what you say but I have to say that I believe we are stopping and thinking about it since we are creating technology that is better, more efficient and less dangerous to the environment. Sure we are not rushing to trade in out smog creating cars for solar or electrically powered cars but our cars today are much less contaminents than they were years ago, even the SUV's. And there are many hybrids already. I can admit the pace at which we are moving towards a more efficient and less polluting future is slow but at least we are moving in the right direction. We must keep in mind that finance plays a big role in this. People can't just drop their cars for more eco-friendly ones at the drop of a hat.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
can't just drop their cars for more eco-friendly ones at the drop of a hat.
Besides some bloke is going to buy the guzzlers.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

the data showing man is responsible for global warming is fatally flawed
I don't go that far but certainly more fact checking is needed. But this doesn't mean we are to sit on hands.

 

 

 

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't go that far but certainly more fact checking is needed. But this doesn't mean we are to sit on hands.

Second, and it follows from the first, since we do not know what is causing global warming, trying to "fix" it may make the problem worse.

Until we know what the hell we are doing, doing "something" may only make the problem worse.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Did anyone pay attention to Brads article that showed that the information that was used by the 'world is ending doomsayers' was flawed? That NASA corrected it and showed that the 1930's were warmer than today? of course not, because this goes against the MSM and the LIBERAL loons that want everyone to conserve, except them. As soon as The Ultra rich Liberals stop flying their private jets to come and tell me I have to conserve, then I MIGHT start taking them serious.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
My modest point is that conservation would help our planet regardless of all the hyper about global warming.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
My modest point is that conservation would help our planet regardless of all the hyper about global warming.


And you are right, of course. Conservation is wise.

I also appreciate you taking the left to task over the "carbon credits" nonsense. About time someone to the left of center took them to task for their crap!
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

My modest point is that conservation would help our planet regardless of all the hyper about global warming.

And that I totally agree with and do support - in a non-radical way.  Living in caves and beating bear skins into clothes is a bit overboard for me however.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: stevendedalusPosted: Saturday, September 08, 2007
My modest point is that conservation would help our planet regardless of all the hyper about global warming.

agreed, I live in cali, where recycling is a way if life, I do my part by having the 10 year light bulbs that use 27 watts but kick out 75 watts of light, I keep my thermostat at 69-70 in winter and 76-77 in summer. I drive a car that gets 30 plus mpg and Colleen has a hybrid that averages 44 to 46 MPG Colleen and WE do what WE can. But I do not want someone with an electric bill that in one month is bigger than mine all years telling me I have to conserve, while he or she drives away in their hummer to the airport to take their private jet to their next speaking appearance.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
if this period of global warming is a natural one, and we somehow effect a climate change to stop or reverse it, then what happens when the earth goes through another period of global cooling (which some climatologist claim will happen in about 15 years)? Instead of having cold winters, we might have cold summers as well!


The climate is like an engine; I can make very minute changes to an engine that affects its efficiency and output. Humans affect the climate. Whether it’s enough to cause serious problems down the road is the only thing in question. Jet airliners introduce smaller particles than exist naturally that allow smaller water droplets to form changing the structure of clouds, causing then to reflect more sunlight back into space. We deforest hundreds of thousands of square miles of an essential part or the climate engine. We have a great deal of power over the environment, like you say Dr. Guy if we’re not careful we might even accidentally cause an ice age. I think we could cause global warming without even trying.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
global warming is happening

man is having an effect on it.


the question is how much of an effect.


i am thinking 1 to 10% and that is probable high. but maybe 1% in the country and 10% in the big cities. but not due to pollution but due to concrete
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
if this period of global warming is a natural one, and we somehow effect a climate change to stop or reverse it, then what happens when the earth goes through another period of global cooling (which some climatologist claim will happen in about 15 years)? Instead of having cold winters, we might have cold summers as well!


You can rest easy on that score. The most we can do is the equivalent of pissing in the ocean compared to the scale of the external and internal forces shaping our environment over time.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
The most we can do is the equivalent of pissing in the ocean compared to the scale of the external and internal forces shaping our environment over time.


I agree with you, and my fear has less to do with what we can do to the global climate (I used that to make the point), than what we can do with the quality of life of man. We have great potential to destroy the economies of the world, and in so doing, make sure that "the poorest of the poor" is not limited to third world nations any longer.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Living in caves and beating bear skins into clothes is a bit overboard for me however.
Aw, shucks, you're too modest. Did you try out for the new show?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I also appreciate you taking the left to task over the "carbon credits" nonsense. About time someone to the left of center took them to task for their crap!
Wow, a compliment from Gideon!!!
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow, a compliment from Gideon!!!


LOL...you know I respect your work, steven...even if you are a soulless lib...lol!

The truth is, nobody's looking out for the best interests of the nation or the world.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
The truth is, nobody's looking out for the best interests of the nation or the world.




then gid there is your campaign stand.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
No, I've decided my new motto is "let's give ourselves the government our GRANDCHILDREN deserve!"

More on that later
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
"let's give ourselves the government our GRANDCHILDREN deserve!"
And without our debts!!