Vote or shut UP!

I don't vote. (Mainly because I'm a resident alien, and not a citizen of the US.) But I see what you say. I hate that people say that I don't have any say because their government won't let me vote.

It annoys me, but what can I say?

I tried to enbed this but it didn't work. Here is a link to South Park's Vote or Die. Funny stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXc7_7DAoIk

Tough position to take but I fully respect it

I tried to enbed this but it didn't work.

I watched. I'm still wiping away the laughter tears. God, I love South Park.

Thanks, LM

I agree with the voting sentiments, I also have not voted in the last two Genral Elections. I will vote if I think the candidate will do a good job representing me. I will not vote for a power crazed idiot, thats a waste, and promotes apauling Political candidates.

The main Parties do this because they know the majority will vote by Party allegence, not candidate credibility. That makes controlling the internal party "canon-fodder" much easier. Until we send a message thats unacceptable, it will continue. The only way to be rid of self interest, is to hit them where it hurts and not vote for clowns who only have their career as a priority.

for clowns who only have their career as a priority.

Is that not ALL of them? Seems to me, it is.

I have never voted in my life. First because I just didn't care for politics before. I had no interest in it. Last elections was because I didn't register ontime and was unaware I could have voted anyways. But I kinda feel the same way, I feel that voting for these current candidates (Republican or Democrat) is like picking the lesser of the bad guys. They all suck, they are all only interested in getting elected. I can not agree on voting for a candidate who spends more time pointing out the cons of their competition and hardly any time on what they will really do once elected.

Will I vote come 2008? I guess it all depends. I may vote just to spite the opposing party. But I still question that decision because I will feel like I will be responsible for any stupidity done by the next President.

Instead of not voting, throw your vote away on an Independent. If they get enough votes, maybe they'll start taking themselves seriously enough to win someday. Of course, if they did that, they'd start selling out to corporate America... I think we need to suprise one of them into office so they don't have time to sell out.

I disagree about not voting. As much as I understand the sentiment, that does nothing to change things.

Ever thought about turning in a blank ballot? Write ins? Running for office yourself? There are a lot of valid ways to make your dissatisfaction known without voting for a scumbag.

I disagree about not voting. As much as I understand the sentiment, that does nothing to change things.

Voting doesn't seem to get changes either Gid. I always vote. I'm really disillusion as I'm sure are a lot of other citizens. I can't blame Ockham for what he says, heck, I hear it a lot these days!

Blank ballot is effectively the same thing as not voting, although I acknowledge the formal nature of the count of blank ballots. Write ins would be effective if they believed we would do something to change them if they didnt change, they dont believe that, so they wont.

As for being one, frankly I doubt I would have the patience and accumin to be one. For all our mumblings about them, you have to be a particular type of individual to put up with all the garbage that flys around, and still take the party whip on central issues with a straight face   

Not true, zydor. If you don't vote, nobody cares. You cannot possibly hurt a politician by not voting. However, if you turn in a blank ballot (not my favorite option, but an option), and it is done in large enough numbers, you've at least shown that you care about the direction of your (city, state, country). And a write in IS effective, at least to show that you're fed up with the way things are. If an election had 70% voter turnout, and 30% write in votes, I GUARANTEE the media would take notice.

Even in my own race, with the 15% I received, I've seen a change in my opponent. Before 2006, he had had 18 years of total security. Nobody had dared challenge him. After my quixotic run (which yielded historic numbers for a third party candidate, btw), he has modified his voting record substantially. I can't help but feel I mayhave influenced that somewhat.

Being an out-of-state military dependent I have found it next to impossible to even REGISTER to vote.

That is frustrating.

i hope to hell this one loses traction before it's discovered by all those brave iraqis who literally risked their very lives, the lives of their families, extended families, tribal kin, friends, casual acquaintances, etc. to participate in the electoral process.

how are they gonna get their fabric-wrapped-and-draped heads around an article in which americans proudly & publicly proselytize dat ol sunni show-em-by-snubbin-em strategy dey knows so well?

can't hardly blame em should they mutter vile presumptions about your forebears or rudely tug their beards as it suddenly becomes clear such cavalier disdain can only mean one thing: we hate them for their freedom.--the freedom to go into a polling place, dip their digit into indelible purple ink and select candidates deemed uniquely worthy to hold office by none other than allah the most merciful who hips em to the chosen slate with a lil help from his imams.

whatta shock!



someone please call 911. i gotta be defibrillated immediately.

It's nice to know I have the attention of some people on this site. God forbid I wouldn't want you to reply about anyone else's comments. I love the attention.



I not that lucky. Just because you have the word king in your name doesn't mean people will do as you say. At least you tried to be funny for once.

Seems to me we bonded together as NOTA members...oh...about 4 years ago, as I recall, LW I actually thought about that when I posted this.

I pretty strongly disagree with the entire sentiment.  Because you don't like the strucutre, you take your ball and go home.  And then complain that the system doesn't represent you.  It's this kind of apathetic, defeatist attitude that has gotten us where we are today.  We don't like the system, so we expect the system to change to draw us back in, until then we're going to sit here on the sideline, complain, ridicule and deride, and dismiss it as not being "My Government"  (not the exact words here, but it's the general argument I've heard from many many people since 2000).

Well here's an eye-opener for you folks as well: The system has no incentive or reason to change on its own to attract you back in.  Why?  Because it works for those in power.  You incent change in elected officials by challenging their safety, by letting them know they can't just do whatever they want.

Yes, people are fed up with the system as it stands, but instead of working to change it, they want to take it easy and wait for others to do the hard work for them.  If even half of the disillusioned folks in the country who simply choose not to participate, jumped in and voted for a third party, or did something else to show they actually still care, things would change in a hurry.  Politicians and the system as a whole ignore you because you've proven to them you're completely unimportant.  It's a harsh statement, but those who refuse to participate in the system are completely useless to it and will be discarded and ignored as irrellevant.

In the end, yes you do give up some degree of justification to complain when you refuse to vote.  It doesn't matter if it's a throw-away vote on a candidate who doesn't have a shot in hell.  It doesn't matter if it's a blank ballot, or a random write-in.  You've made your displeasure known.  You've taken part and fulfilled your half of the bargain.  Failing to do that you're really just pulling the equivalent of "I'm going to hold my breath until you do what I say!"

Think the system is broken? Then DO something instead of sitting around, doing nothing and just complaining.

If you only consider your vote to be meaningful if the candidates you're voting for is everything you want them to be, then you are missing the point completely.

There are several ways we can use our voice in a free society, voting is merely one of them.  If we choose not to vote, we are voluntarily surrendering our voice in that part of the system.

But I also agree with you.  If the only part of your voice you are using is your vote, you're surrendering all the other parts of your voice. 

Too many people vote without knowing a thing about the candidates are issues on the ballot.  To me, that is actually worse than taking yourself out of the system.  They are using their voice but saying nothing.  They are affecting the outcome, with no idea what they are saying.  They are like a referee of a game that just likes to blow the whistle, having no idea what the whistle means.

Interesting debate.  I like Zoomba and Ted's answers.  I understand Ock's point. But think Ted and Mike have an answer for it.

those who refuse to participate in the system are completely useless to it and will be discarded and ignored as irrellevant.

DO something instead of sitting around, doing nothing and just complaining

Well said Zoomba.



There is no free lunch. You cant get anything (i.e. change) by doing "nothing". This kind of attitude that this post describes is what got us where we are in the first place.

"I have never voted in my life. First because I just didn't care for politics before. I had no interest in it. Last elections was because I didn't register ontime and was unaware I could have voted anyways."

That's nobody's fault but your own.

"I feel that voting for these current candidates (Republican or Democrat) is like picking the lesser of the bad guys. They all suck, they are all only interested in getting elected."

You aren't alone I share your feeling and your insight there. Whats sad is it's mostly factual.

"Too many people vote without knowing a thing about the candidates are issues on the ballot. "

Really? I thought the age limits were supposed to prevent the teenager crowd from making an uninformed decision.

You guys who are sick of voting, have to decide if making your vote count is more important to you then not voting. If letting other people decide for you what the course of events is to be, without your participation then you really do have little if anything to cry about if it doesn't work out how you like. Even if you do vote, you will lose some of the time, duh. But you will have at least taken part, and added your count to the masses, set an example for your neighbors and co workers, as well as children and continue to propagate democratic life.

Those are real benefits, even though you maybe be voting for the least bad of the bunch, consider that those guys had to be assholes to get up to that point. Past the primary, past the 5-10% barrier. On the national stage guess what, they are all assholes, that will smile, shake your hand, take your money, and work the crowd whether you are there or not. Thats what they do. They also lie, they cheat, they take advantages nobody would in the rest of society against opponents, and they do what they need to do to get elected. The system allows them to do that because they tweak the system to stay in power.

On the local level it's quite a bit different, you can actually meet someone, have a lunch, voice your concerns, explain your position, have an effect, if it gets you so pissed, you can even run and stand a chance to win. Whats important is taking part, because when you don't you can cry and complain just as if you had voted, but you'll know you didn't do anything except cry and complain when your number was up.

Learn how to register.
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm

Learn the candidates. Spend 15 min researching, it's not that hard, they all have websites with nice little kittens and some dumb shit campaign slogan.

Learn where to vote, and go do it!

Ok now you can tell me to shut up.

"Our system is broken and does not represent or reflect my choices."

Then run for office. Nobody and nothing prevents you from being eligible right?

"I have the desire to turn our electoral system on its ear but have no idea where to start."

"...I am contributing to society using my BEST skills and abilities..."
You sound like an excellent candidate.

" but in reality, today's Americans (in general) are the "all about me" generation that EXPECTS to be given whatever he/she wants because he/she wants it."

Really, is that the same generation that went rushing up into the towers on 9/11? How about the crowd on flight 93? What about those choosing to re-enlist time and time again in a military to fight a war which is fast losing popular support, because they believe in it.

"This generation expects to be listened to because they are the EXPERTS on whatever topic they choose."

They certainly are more educated than previous generations. I'll stand by my statement that if it bothers you to the degree that you can't stand it, run for office. You might get elected.

I have to admit that while I share OckhamsRazor sentiments on this article, I agree with Zoomba and ParaTed2k about how we should not just sit there and do nothing. I guess I should take my own advice when I'm the first one to scream about people sitting there caring more about American Idol and Deadliest catch and less about voting, who to vote for and the issues. As i said before I did not have much interest in politics and never really cared much what happened till about 3 maybe 4 years ago, after Bush's second win. I wanted to vote in these recent elections but failed to send the registration on time, I was also unaware that I could have voted anyways.



I don't believe I was blaming anyone but myself. I have mentioned before how I take responsibilities for my own actions and don't go around blaming the Gov't for everything I do wrong.



I know, though sometimes it does feel like one is alone because, as Ted said we should voice ourselves more but we don't.

Not to steal Mari's thunder while she's on a roll, and not to change the subject, but I believe there is justification for her saying Americans are largely reactionary right here in this very thread! Namely in most of the responses that completely missed my point. I'll take the hit for that one. I think in more than 2 dimensions, and there's only 2 to write in. Getting my thoughts to page has always been my achille's heal.

Anyway, what I'm trying to convey, is that voting, blank ballots, write in ballots, or votes for actual candidates have no more affect on changing anything than not voting does. The people get in office, and then they do whatever the hell they want to.

Oh but Ock! Then you vote them out, and they're threatened by your voting power! No they aren't. Then they write their memoirs and go on Oprah. Or they become meat puppets on some local or internationally syndicated commentary show so they can tell the rest of the US what to think. Or they travel around to Universities giving speeches. Or they do all of the above.

As long as the current system is in place, every politician that makes it into office for even one term has a secure life in selling thought for the rest of their lives.

As far as doing something to change it, some of you would find my suggestions abhorrent, and I also find them to be quite impossible to make happen, so I'll not subject myself to ridicule by stating my radical ideas to reactionaries.

Many of you basically see our democracy as an enclosed system that is self-sustaining based on everyone doing their civic duty and casting that vote. What *I* was trying to say wasn't that me voting in that enclosed bullet-proof system wouldn't have any effect, but that the system is NOT bullet proof, it's NOT enclosed, and looks to to have more holes in it than a big slice of swiss cheese.

If you take THAT model into consideration, maybe it makes more sense to you that I will ever only use my vote to try to keep someone OUT of office (which is the only time I ever did vote). I don't foresee that situation ever happening again because the line of altruism is so frigging far away from all of them, it just doesn't matter.