WWIII --> a possibility?

will it happen?

Simply, is the third world war a possiblity?

Theoretically, if one country luanches (sp?) a nuke, will the world be destroyed by the splitting of atoms?

In my mind, it's more of a fantasy, even though I know that it is very possible. Would it really only take one terrorist group, or country, to launch a nuke and start it?

I wonder who would start the war? My bets are on the USA since, in 10 years our economy will completly collapse and we will become a third world country, probably dominated by cristain society, and we already have an INSANE, STUPID, president as it is, + we also have a stash of nukes somewhere.

I guess the question is more of, when it happen than will it.
63,255 views 63 replies
Reply #1 Top
luanches...
Launches - Marriam-Webster is your friend.

Yes, a third WW is a possibility - as is a fourth or a fifth...

Christian, not - cristain.


I agree - it is more of when, than if.
Reply #2 Top
The third world war will be fought with tanks and nukes.
The fourth will be fought with stones and clubs.
Reply #3 Top
Simply, is the third world war a possiblity?


Yes, son, it is. So is an asteroid on a collison course for the planet. We need to continue to improve our watchfulness for both. For the next 20 years or so, I'd say the probabilities are about equal, but both are such catastrophic events that they need to be reasonably provisioned against. So study history, and REAL science, and try to pay attention world events and economics and to what motivates people beyond the reach of U.S. cable TV. Try to choose leaders grounded in reality, with a demonstrated knowledge of the world and its peoples.

Theoretically, if one country luanches (sp?) a nuke, will the world be destroyed by the splitting of atoms?

In my mind, it's more of a fantasy, even though I know that it is very possible. Would it really only take one terrorist group, or country, to launch a nuke and start it?


In my mind, highly, highly unlikely. The major nuclear powers leadership are pretty sophisicated about the risks of high intensity war, and the differences between national actions and rougue actions. Even the destruction of a major city, even a major power capital by a single nuclear event would be treated as an incident, not a war trigger, unless it was clearly conducted by a major power. Now there would be a highly emotional period of blaming, and an absolute requirement for hunt down and reprisal that would brook little interference or obstruction. In that period, attempts to shelter apparently guilty parties, or or deny reprisal, COULD lead to percieved threats to national sovereignty and to legitimate rights-of-nations, and escalate into a nation level conflict. But even then, in this age of instant communications and 4-hour trans-oceanic diplomatic flights, a serious nation level confrontation would be more likely to result in something like a renewed Cold War than a hot WWIII. With some pretty serious regional conflicts around the edges.

I wonder who would start the war? My bets are on the USA since, in 10 years our economy will completly collapse and we will become a third world country, probably dominated by cristain society, and we already have an INSANE, STUPID, president as it is, + we also have a stash of nukes somewhere.


If you want to contribute to avoiding major war in your time, you should start by trying to be a realistic as possible about the prospects and leadership of your own nation.

a) The US economy is not going to collapse in 10 years. We may not be the monolithic engine of the world economy that we have been in recent decades, and we may have severe competition with other world regions for petrochemical energy in particular, but we will still be, at the very least, one of the 2 largest and strongest national economies on Earth. Now, it is likely that we will pass through a recession in the next 10 years, but just like every recession since the Great Depression, it will be part of a rolling global recession, and we'll recover from it. Part of the nature of recessionary periods is that the short term bad effects (sometimes unfortunately felt very strongly by certain groups of people) tend to set up the conditions for economic recovery and expansion (industries invest internally, reduce workforce, become more efficient, financial institutions build up reserves, managements change, etc).

BTW, it is a pretty well known sociological effect that younger people tend to see economic slowdowns as much worse than their real impact on the long term economy. Its believed to be just because they haven't experienced and coped with the normal variability of the economy; basically if you are 20 years old right now, you can't help but think of "good times" as "normal". By the time a person is 45, they have seen the economy go up and down 3 times as adults, and "the waves don't look as big".

b) "...probably dominated by cristain (sic) society...". Got news for you; the US has been dominated by Christian society for 231+ years. And I'm not being facietious. Christian, or in some views Judeo-Christian (Protestant), values, virtues, and failings are thouroughly integrated into all our institutions...including the ones that honor the rights of individuals to choose their way of thought. Over the last 25 years there has been a very vocal political activist surge by fundamentalist Christian segements who thought that their particular beliefs were being underrepresented in the national governance process, but it is hardly the 1st time. And in general that particular factional surge is fading, not out of existance, but becoming more of a bold thread in the cultural fabric rather than a dominant color. Hey, it happened to the free love, hippy, liberalism of the 60's, 70's, too. Not sure, but planet-care and environmentalism may be the next wave.

c) C',mon. I didn't vote for the guy, but the current president is neither insane nor stupid. On the second point first, he was smart enough to get himself elected president, wasn't he (and I WON'T get into whether the unique 1st electoral situation was "right", because it was constitutionally "correct" and practical, and it was a game that only smart people could play). The conduct of the early Afghanistan Initiative was brilliant; it will probably be studied by strategic scholars for centuries, and the president gets to take credit, he had the con. On the subject of insanity, while he is very fixed to his view of the world, and how the US should act within it, it is not an insane position to believe that it his mission in his presidency, under its circumstances, to present a face of stern strength to the world to the very end. We can argue about whether it is the most effective stance, and about whether the the outcomes of major actions were judged well (hell, I'll argue about a lot of them) but even bad misjudgements are not insanity (Remember, in the beginning 70% of Americans were IN FAVOR of the policy they are most against right now.)

A last point on the subject of the current leadership. By the very nature of your question, you should be thinking more about what the NEXT shift coming into the US corridors of power will be inclined to risk and do, and choosing accordingly. I don't see anyone with a likely chance at the US top job in the next round that I fear would start a rash conflict or toss nukes lightly.

d) Yes, we have a "stash" of nukes. (Actually, a very carefully managed nuclear force structure.) The most likely time for any of them to be rashly used was in 2003, against a numerically superior force with a demonstrated willingness to employ WMD themselves. Didn't happen. Not even a little tiny one when we were trying to nail Saddam. The US is not going to start a throwing nukes for anything less than a major WMD assault upon us. We invented the damn things, we're the only ones who have ever used them, and we are the ones who cleaned up after; the folks who control the US nuke force know better than anyone else (except a few physicists and climatologists) just how much they can ruin a pretty good world.

So, will there be a WWIII? Probably, sometime, - history is a long time - when the right power factions develop and develop uncompromisable positions.

Will it be in the next 10 years? I hardly think so - see the conditions above.

Will it be in the next 20 years? See last answer.

Will there be conflicts involving US national forces over the next 2 decades (current involvments taken as givens)? Almost certainly. We have a lot of interests around the world to provide triggers. Plus we have the most finely honed, flexible military that a modern nation has ever had; its hard to not use your best tools. We're also the big dog for now, and usually leashed; foolish boys will want to poke sticks and step on the grass.

drrider
Reply #4 Top
WW3 I think the closest we are going to see it is in the next few years but it wont actually happen. Nukes are a deterrant against action not to be used as a weapon. No head of government in any country would ever launch a weapon of mass destruction. The problem is, is that Russia is now flying their bombers because the States is now putting anti missile missiles in Europe. It is also the States that will cause a weapon rebuilding project in many countries with their missile defence program. They have been warned about it but continue to work on it. As for the strongest economy in the world, I am not sure but I believe the States is running a deficit at the moment. That will change over the next few years I believe however. Now this is just my opinion and like an Ahole everyone has one.
Reply #5 Top
There are a LOT of situations that COULD start WWIII: Pakistani and Indian tensions could flare up, Iran invading Isreal might also set the world ablaze, North Korea doing pretty much anything could also be very bad, and there hundreds of others. Of course, some of these situations are more proboble than others. That's my two cents.
Reply #6 Top
As for the strongest economy in the world, I am not sure but I believe the States is running a deficit at the moment.


You shouldn't confuse the budget of a national government with the national economy. And governments sometimes go into debt for different reasons than individuals do...sometimes to help maintain the strength of the economy (i.e. avoid printing more money and devaluing).
(Though mostly they do it just because the Powers That Be can't agree upon, or daren't risk, spending cuts.)

drrider
Reply #7 Top
There are a LOT of situations that COULD start WWIII: Pakistani and Indian tensions could flare up, Iran invading Isreal might also set the world ablaze, North Korea doing pretty much anything could also be very bad, and there hundreds of others. Of course, some of these situations are more proboble than others. That's my two cents.


I think the Pakistan / India confrontation is the current greatest risk of a nuclear conflict, but perhaps surprisingly I don't think it would be a world war trigger. An ugly, bloody, radioactive, destructive, stability shattering nuclear regional war, yes, but I don't think a world war. I don't think there would be enough factionalism lining up other nations on each respective 'side', plus I think the general attitude of the world toward both sides would be shock, horror, and condemnation. Also, I think the sheer size of the 2 nations, without them being superpower bloc leaders, operates in this case to allow other nations to distance themselves from the bi-lateral confrontation.

Somewhat likewise, North Korea might go nuts enough to toss (or smuggle) some nukes into play, and recieve the long warned retaliation, but I think the situation would even then remain a regionally contained one, with general condemnation of the initiator. China would, of course, still not stand for a US total subjugation of the North, and they might carve out a piece for themselves, but I think there would be a lot more talking than shooting between the concerned superpowers (including regional and economic superpower Japan).

Iran and/or some coalition vs Israel supported at least somewhat by the US is probably the most likely trigger for a world war, but I also believe that it is the one least likely to get out of hand (beyond the chronic variable intensity skimishing) in the near future. Its just so WATCHED, and a lot of the no-so-sympathetic neighbors of Israel are regardles of politices not very thrilled by the idea of nuclear ping-pong in their own very narrow part of the world. It would be a lot more (nuclear) dangerous if Iran had any direct land access to Israel, or a tested nuclear arsenal of a dozen warheads or so. Also, I'm not entirely convinced that WE would ramp up to nuclear reprisal on Iran (more than perhaps vaporizing an isolated reactor facility) for the sake of Israel, even if ther had been a suitcase bomb in Tel Aviv...and I think that's what it would take to snowball things to a world war.

drrider

Reply #8 Top
It's not a possibiliy, but a guarantee. The question is when? Resources are getting low and global warming causing crazy weather patterns. Every year thre are a lot more humans, but the amount of land space remains pretty much the same.

For me, I think No big nukes for WWIII, too dirty, destroys valuable intrastructure.
Use bioweapons, with an off switch or chemical weapons for better containment in a region. Perhaps a tiny nuke aim at dense military structures. If you have enough money to reasearch nukes...why not spend it on bioweapons. Cheaper to grow bacteria/viruses.

Man is not an Angel and probably has to die before he becomes one. Man wouldn't be man if he wasn't killing another man.
Reply #9 Top
For the most part, i do not think greed and power are relevant to war anymore, because anyone who is greedy or power hungry will not want nukes dropped on them.

Fear, desperation and fanatacism however will be our downfall sooner or later because neither of these three things bring logic along for the ride.
Reply #10 Top
For the most part, i do not think greed and power are relevant to war anymore, because anyone who is greedy or power hungry will not want nukes dropped on them.


We have not exactly been a Planet of peace and love since nukes were invented   

They are effective in preventing major conflict, but there will always be wars, nukes or no nukes. No one is going to let loose a nuke because of a Regional conflict - unless you are a fanatic who has got their hands on one. The latter being a Major threat for sometime to come.

Power & Greed always started wars, have been responsible for every war in recorded time, always will be.
Reply #11 Top
Run how a India-Pakistan conflict would spark WWIII by me agian.
The UN would just butt in. If they would be refused then trade embargo. End of story. How world war III?

-Scot
Reply #12 Top
Run how a India-Pakistan conflict would spark WWIII by me agian.
The UN would just butt in. If they would be refused then trade embargo. End of story. How world war III?




right body wrong country
Reply #13 Top
Yes, we have a "stash" of nukes. (Actually, a very carefully managed nuclear force structure.) The most likely time for any of them to be rashly used was in 2003, against a numerically superior force with a demonstrated willingness to employ WMD themselves. Didn't happen. Not even a little tiny one when we were trying to nail Saddam. The US is not going to start a throwing nukes for anything less than a major WMD assault upon us. We invented the damn things, we're the only ones who have ever used them, and we are the ones who cleaned up after; the folks who control the US nuke force know better than anyone else (except a few physicists and climatologists) just how much they can ruin a pretty good world.



Typical americans, always taking credit. You made the first nuke, yes. Americans didn't theorize it. USA didn't have anything to do do with making the nuclear-bomb carrying "missiles". Nuclear enrichment wasn't a proscess the US made. "Heavy water" wasnt first created by the US. The idea was brought from germany. The V2 is german. Nuclear enrichment and "Heavy Water" were both german concepts. Einstein was german too. A non-Nazi german, but a german none the less. Einstein sent Roosevelt the theory behind a Nuclear weapon. All you did was stall the germans in Norway in conjuction with the British and steal their ideas.

I'm not saying I love germany or Nazi germany but dont let national pride make you think you invented the damn things.

Btw, my country fought the germans in WWII so dont think I love them. Besides, nazism died a long time ago.

-Scot

P.S Please dont start flaming me and say I'm a nazi fan or anything like that.
Reply #14 Top
Simply, is the third world war a possiblity?

Theoretically, if one country luanches (sp?) a nuke, will the world be destroyed by the splitting of atoms?

In my mind, it's more of a fantasy, even though I know that it is very possible. Would it really only take one terrorist group, or country, to launch a nuke and start it?

I wonder who would start the war? My bets are on the USA since, in 10 years our economy will completly collapse and we will become a third world country, probably dominated by cristain society, and we already have an INSANE, STUPID, president as it is, + we also have a stash of nukes somewhere.

I guess the question is more of, when it happen than will it.


Well I don't agree with anything you said. But as far as starting a war I don't think the US will be starting any wars. However they will be finishing them that I have no doubt. But you could be right about an economic crisis within 10 years if the Democrats come to power and give away our country to the illegal immigrants.
As far as the President goes he was right to invade Iraq and take out Saddam but apparently people seem to love a bloodthirsty dictator and prefer to keep him in power. It amazes me that these same people who opposed the Iraq war know little about how evil Saddam was to his people. Anyway our president has made some bad calls too which I don’t agree with but you know it could be worst. Al Gore could have been president and the whole country would have gone to hell in a hand basket. What worries me is if that Dragon lady, Hillary Clinton being gets into power. If that happens ‘Game over man! Game over!’


Reply #15 Top
Sounds like TP Scot has a unreasonable anger at the US. Is it because we really dont care a fig about what the rest of the world thinks? That the US should be run by some non elected government drones from Brussels? If you really dont like someone why in the world would you tell them that. Learn from Genghis Khan. "Never speak before you strike."

Or maybe he just believes what the media says or is a green.

Duh
Reply #16 Top
Yes, we have a "stash" of nukes. (Actually, a very carefully managed nuclear force structure.) The most likely time for any of them to be rashly used was in 2003, against a numerically superior force with a demonstrated willingness to employ WMD themselves. Didn't happen. Not even a little tiny one when we were trying to nail Saddam. The US is not going to start a throwing nukes for anything less than a major WMD assault upon us. We invented the damn things, we're the only ones who have ever used them, and we are the ones who cleaned up after; the folks who control the US nuke force know better than anyone else (except a few physicists and climatologists) just how much they can ruin a pretty good world.



Typical americans, always taking credit. You made the first nuke, yes. Americans didn't theorize it. USA didn't have anything to do do with making the nuclear-bomb carrying "missiles". Nuclear enrichment wasn't a proscess the US made. "Heavy water" wasnt first created by the US. The idea was brought from germany. The V2 is german. Nuclear enrichment and "Heavy Water" were both german concepts. Einstein was german too. A non-Nazi german, but a german none the less. Einstein sent Roosevelt the theory behind a Nuclear weapon. All you did was stall the germans in Norway in conjuction with the British and steal their ideas.

I'm not saying I love germany or Nazi germany but dont let national pride make you think you invented the damn things.

Btw, my country fought the germans in WWII so dont think I love them. Besides, nazism died a long time ago.

-Scot

P.S Please dont start flaming me and say I'm a nazi fan or anything like that.


We are a melting pot of nationalities. And yes the concept of nuclear power did come from a german mind but it was America that developed the weapon first. Those germans that worked on the project were Americans. They may not have been born Americans but they did become American citizens. And in my book once your a citizen then your an American.

Reply #17 Top
"We have not exactly been a Planet of peace and love since nukes were invented"

This planet has never been one of peace and love. The high point was probably the Roman Empire or the Bitish Empire. And they were neither the peace an love types.

Peace and love types only exist when rough men await to do there bidding while they sleep soundly in beds.

Duh
"History beats politics"
Reply #18 Top
As somebody posted before, "history is a long time". Of course there will be another world war at some point, but that doesnt mean it will actually happen in our lifetime. It could be 10 years from now, 100 years, or 1000 years. With the current geo-political situation, I dont see a feasible way that would make such a conflict likely in the near future (10-20 years). There is the possibility for some significant regional conflicts, such as Pakistan and India, although the development of nukes by both those countries lessens the chance of a sustained and comitted conflict. With nukes, there is just too much to loss-potential for either side involved, and if there was a nuclear exchange, it would stay limited to the region. Same story for North Korea. I also dont believe they will give up nukes now that they have them.

Drrider, I am impressed by your grasp of the issues, and if you had not written, my post would have had to be a lot longer, but you said most of what I was already thinking. I will disagree about the intelligence of our current president though. I think he has some very skilled political operatives around him, so he probably has a knack for picking such people, but the man himself is seriously lacking in IQ. I've heard him speak too many times to conclude otherwise. The copious amounts of booze & cocaine probably did not help his brain cells either. I dont think he had much to do with forming the plan for Afghanistan. Its much more likely that he told his advisors what he wanted to achieve, and they came up with the actual plan of implementation.

Sentient species taste better... Sentient species taste better...
Reply #19 Top
The third world war will be fought with tanks and nukes.
The fourth will be fought with stones and clubs.


nahhhh. The fourth will be fought with spears and semi-automatic weapons. Think the game Fallout. Some high technology will remain, but many will resort to low tech means like spears and stones. It would be much easier to pick up a lead pipe and beat people with it than trying to locate a functional M-16 after the the major cities are radioactive pits. Some will travel by horse and have a machine gun strapped on their shoulder. I am fairly certain that cars would no longer be possible. People will go back to traveling by horseback.
Reply #20 Top
Power & Greed always started wars, have been responsible for every war in recorded time, always will be.


Huh? so that means you are saying that Hate, racism, desperation, fear or fanaticism have not started any wars in recorded history??
Reply #21 Top
I agree with your last post mystikmind. Now, if I could just get you to accept that we won't all be insulin deficient    
Reply #22 Top
I agree with your last post mystikmind. Now, if I could just get you to accept that we won't all be insulin deficient


Please, don't drag that thread in here!! lol
Reply #23 Top
I will disagree about the intelligence of our current president though.


I am suprised to see so many people think bush is an idiot? He gives me the impression of being very smart.

Also i must say that he did win my affection with such slips of the toungue as
"it will take some time to restore kaos", i mean kmo'n guys that has to be about the funniest thing any president has ever said rite? Bush is a legend!
Reply #24 Top
Simply, is the third world war a possiblity?


I'm going to say yes. The U.S. is all busy making up lame excuses for invading Iran, and Iran is right smacking next to Russia. China's wary about our presence on their left flank, too, and they're already eyeing Taiwan. If the U.S. overstretches themselves.... If China gets pissed off at U.S. and takes over Taiwan, 2/3 of our semiconductors in the U.S. are manufactured in Taiwan. Say bye-bye to U.S.'s technological edge.
Reply #25 Top
I would consider the chance of a WWIII happening very unlikely. First of all, a country led by a dictator for life has a prevalent weakness: the dictator himself. You see, often, such a person won't care that much for his own population but he does care for his own well-being up to the point it dominates national policy. Recall that North-Korea was brought to the negotiation table in record time not by an general embargo that hurt his people but by blocking luxury commodities that he liked.

The only countries I see capable of using nuclear weapons are those with a highly significant religious powerbase (and those with their backs to the wall but we're talking about those taking the initiative here) because they don't need a rational explanation (sp?) to do things. Those countries, however, are usually isolated in international politics because of their dogmatic and uncompromising view. So, if they manage to lob a nuke somehow, it would certainly spark a retaliation but it won't start a world war.

That said, there are some sources of tension but I doubt it would spark a world war either. One is the increasing tension between Russia and the United States, but that will probably change when a new president gets elected.

Another is the rise of China and its military growth but I doubt it would get out of hand to the degree of a world war. China might flex its muscles and even test the willingness of the US to protect Taiwan but I'm not sure whether the two will exchange bullets over it.

And lastly, the India-Pakistan tension is slowly decreasing I believe. Besides, if it were to escalate somehow, it would probably stay a local conflict (whether or not the region will be glowing in the dark when the dust settles is a different matter).

The US will probably get involved in many more conventional fights and wars over time but I suppose that's only normal: they don't have a legacy of being diplomatic or even having a very good grasp of the mindset of other countries but they do have an impressive military force with only China coming closer to them. So, if all you've got is a big hammer, every problem looks like a nail.