Raising gasoline taxes to fund transportation would cost?

I'm sure my numbers are off and that 18MPG for an average vehicle is not correct.  I could be way under, or way over.  I'd hazzard a guess that the average "poor" person drives an econo-box (unless they're riding around in a welfare-caddy!) {sorry to stereotype here, but you know someone will say something similar} and if so, they are likely getting more like 22 - 25MPG, if not much more.

I know that the average Dodge Charger driver is getting about 17MPG, worse if they have the Hemi.  The average Ford Explorer driver is getting about 17MPG in most cases.  Average Dodge mini-van driver about 21MPG if they are lucky.

You should get the idea I'm pointing towards.  There is little or no room for poor people to bitch about paying more in gasoline taxes here because you know what, they'll be paying much less than do the people driving around in the guzzlers.  The guy driving the 12 - 15MPG Chevy Suburban is going to feel it, but again, to what effect?

Lets look at the same equations with a 10MPG estimate.  Hmm, just over $60 a year in increased taxes if the gasoline tax is raised by $0.05.  Please tell me again how that would really impact someone's bottom line?

By the way, if the econo-box driver gets about 30MPG, they'd be paying about $20 more a year in increased gas taxes.

One more point to raise here -- personally, if the gasoline tax is going to be raised, I'd rather have it done NOW while the cost of a gallon of gasoline has been falling.  Gasoline has been quietly (thankfully!) falling in price over the last several weeks.  From well up over $3.20 per gallon back down to about $2.70 a gallon where I fill up at.

If the gasoline tax was magically raised over night and immediately went into effect, I'd be seeing prices right back where they had been only a week or so ago and I'd probably never know the difference on what caused the increase.

I would damned sure hope to know the difference a few years out though when there would hopefully be a flood of new road construction to repair existing roadways, build new ones, and help make sure that the roads we all drive on are able to handle the traffic we are asking them to carry.

There are some economic factors that you failed to consider here. When these taxes are raised it's not just on gasoline but also on diesel fuel.

Most rigs average around 5.5 mpg and some much less, so let's say 5 mpg. A rig averages about 110,000 miles per year (conservatively), and team operated rigs double that figure so let's just call it 150,000 miles per year as there are more solos than teams.

So that's 150,000 miles/5 mpg. That's 30,000 gallons of fuel per year. That's an additional $1,500 per year added to that truck's operating expense. Multiply that by the millions of trucks in operation and that starts to become a significant figure.

Every single consumer in America, whether they drive a car or not, will be impacted by this increase every time they purchase anything. The real impact of the nickel increase actually amounts to more than your figures would indicate as they would not only pay it at the pumps but at the grocery, clothing store, and everywhere else.

There are some economic factors that you failed to consider here. When these taxes are raised it's not just on gasoline but also on diesel fuel. Most rigs average around 5.5 mpg and some much less, so let's say 5 mpg. A rig averages about 110,000 miles per year (conservatively), and team operated rigs double that figure so let's just call it 150,000 miles per year as there are more solos than teams.

There is absolutely nothing that says that diesel fuel has to see the same increases that gasoline does.  While it might help a little to raise taxes on diesel a bit, perhaps the raise on diesel comes through at something closer to $0.01 or $0.02 per gallon or something similar.  If that is the case, then costs to the trucking industry are still not that harsh by comparison.

Finally, your example mentions that every single consumer in the country would see increased prices.  That is true, as would also be true when goods produced in the U.S.A. are sold over-seas.  I'm well aware that the money for paying for transportation will have to come from somewhere, and that costs will be passed along, but if that is the case, then what is the real impact to the truckers?  Not that much, no?  Because they will definitely pass the costs along and force someone else to pay them.

If that really happens, then again, we are likely talking about tens of dollars per person at most.  Totals of under $100 a year in indirect costs that are passed along to the consumers.  For a family of four, the total hit -- including their own average driving costs -- would be under $500 a year.  Not an inconsequential amount, but an amount that should be manageable.  Roughly $10 per week.  10 fewer dollar deals at Mickey-D's, 2 or 3 fewer Starbucks drinks per weeks, etc.

Given a choice, would consumers really rather not pay the $10 per week to help make the roads better?  Help pay for more mass transit?  Build new roadways to help take traffic off over burden roads?

I can tell you that for me the choice would be fairly easy.  

Given a choice, would consumers really rather not pay the $10 per week to help make the roads better? Help pay for more mass transit? Build new roadways to help take traffic off over burden roads?

I have to say that I still don't know how you get the $10/week estimate, but even IF that was accurate....I've been at the point where $10 a week was a big deal. For $10 a week per person I'd expect to see a heck of a lot done....

I think the effects would have a greater consequense than that...shipping costs are a big part of the retail cost of items.

I have to say that I still don't know how you get the $10/week estimate, but even IF that was accurate....I've been at the point where $10 a week was a big deal. For $10 a week per person I'd expect to see a heck of a lot done....

Simple math = $500 year / 52 weeks in the year = less than $10 per week.

Would that hurt?  Perhaps, but then again the Congress just handed people at the lower end of the economy an increase in their wages, no?  And are we not already paying more, or going to be paying more for milk (as it shoots up thanks to increased transportation costs and increased costs of food for milk cows) and meats (as we again pay more for meat because the feed for beef cattle has gone up in price).

Everything goes up in price.  It has for many, many, many years.  Everything that is except for the gasoline taxes which have remained stagnant for many, many, many years.

And by the way, to follow-up here again, if the increased costs for everything along the way wind up being approx. $100 per year per person, then even single drivers would be looking at costs of approximately $150 - $200 for their own individual costs.  If that is the case, do the math again and just how much is any one person looking at?  (As the $10 per week that I estimated above would be an approximation for the hit on a family of four, not for an individual).

If the higher of this figures was used ($200), then the cost per week for an individual is $3.85 (rounded up).   Less than the cost of a pack of cigarettes, or the cost of a meal at McDonalds, etc.

Let's say for the sake of argument that all your figures are correct.  So what?

It is the same thing that the democrats preach in Washington - "It is only X dollars! - The cost of a pizza (or insert your own item)."  This is true.

Now add on that to the following:

Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
Social Security Tax
Medicare Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
School Tax

Sales Taxes (State and Local)

Real Estate Tax
Property Tax
Building Permit Tax
Well Permit Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Utility Taxes
Severence Tax

Corporate Income Tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Privilege Tax
Inventory Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax

Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense
Capital Gains Tax
IRS Penalties
IRS Interest Charges

Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax
Service Charge Taxes

Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax

Vehicle Sales Tax
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Trailer registration tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Watercraft registration Tax

Gasoline Tax

Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)

Dog License Tax
Fishing License Tax
Hunting License Tax
Cigarette Tax

None of these taxes (with a few exceptions) are "that big a deal". Just a couple of bucks a week, month or year.  But added up and it is a burden that would blow away most people.  And that is how politicians get away with it.  Just a nickle here, a dime there, so you do not squeal too loudly.  Until 100% of your money is taken in taxes (with of course a stipend coming back to you so you can thank the government for their generoisty).

it is not for a lack of money that roads and bridges are falling down.  It is for a lack of accountability and competance that they are.  And I do not want a nother nickle or dime to go to them, until they stop wasting the trillions they are getting on pork and other feather bedding, and start using it for what our government was designed to do.

With the age of technology, everything has gotten cheaper as we have used technology to build it cheaper and faster.  Everything that is except Government - which is defying the law of technology and of the trends of society as a whole.  That is not an exception to the rule, that is just fraud and waste.

And I for one am not going to vote to give them more money to waste or line their pockets with. period.

Dr. Guy, I am firmly on the side of eliminating and/or reducing a lot of those other taxes you have listed because typically they are funding nothing but the bureaucracy that is taking in the taxes.  I would dearly love to see lower taxes in most places, and reduced burden on the citizens of this country.  Taxes on Satellite TV service make absolutely no sense to me, since the resources that are providing my service are up in the sky (except for the electricity to power my receivers, which I already pay taxes and fees on).

Taxes on phone service are out of hand and should definitely be reduced.  We collect millions in fees to help provide -- supposedly -- service to rural areas despite the fact that there are very few un-wired areas left in the country, and those that are still un-wired, or under-served can obtain service from alternatives like satellite internet, cellular phone service, etc.

The big difference to me, when it comes to the gasoline tax, is what it pays for.  It pays for something just about everyone in this country uses, and it involves public safety at the same time.

I'd be incredibly happy to see a lot of other taxes reduced to help offset the costs of raising the gasoline taxes.  That would make perfect sense to me, though like you, I'm cynical enough to expect that no tax that has ever existed will be reduced or eliminated by congress.  At least not a Democratic led/controlled congress.

the bad news is it isn't all being used for that.

"We collect millions in fees to help provide -- supposedly -- service to rural areas despite the fact that there are very few un-wired areas left in the country"

One cannot sustain a local telephone exchange in some places without these subsidies, which would lead to them being unwired. A company that loses its subsidies will most likely fold within a year, completely out of cash, as the regulators choose the rates they can charge, and that doesn't change when you lose the subsidies.

The added amount paid by Americans because BIG OIL manipulates the supplies amounts to MORE then the 5 Cent Federal tax increase. They have increased prices 40 per gallon this summer alone! That increase does NOTHINFG to help rebuild our roads and bridges!

One cannot sustain a local telephone exchange in some places without these subsidies, which would lead to them being unwired. A company that loses its subsidies will most likely fold within a year, completely out of cash, as the regulators choose the rates they can charge, and that doesn't change when you lose the subsidies.

That argument is crap.

If the laws aren't saying so (and I would be surprised if they aren't), the state and local governments, along with the feds can require that if you provide utility service in a state you must provide utility service *everywhere* in the state.  There are, in many cases, anti-cherry picking laws that stop this stuff from happening now.

Take away those subsidies and perhaps you would have these companies raising prices to cover the 'true costs' of their service, but more likely not a damned thing would happen because of competition in other service areas that would keep these companies from being able to gouge customers.

I'd be incredibly happy to see a lot of other taxes reduced to help offset the costs of raising the gasoline taxes. That would make perfect sense to me, though like you, I'm cynical enough to expect that no tax that has ever existed will be reduced or eliminated by congress. At least not a Democratic led/controlled congress.

Then lets make it dollar for dollar.  If they want to raise taxes on gas, cut it some where else.  In the end it is all just an accounting gimmick anyway.  All the money goes into the same pot and it is only politicians that say "this is for x".  In the end, it all comes from the same place.  Our pockets.

No new taxes until they eliminate or reduce existing taxes.

I will add to that, no new taxes until the government cuts the waste.  No reason to give them more money that won't solve anything.

[quote]I will add to that, no new taxes until the government cuts the waste. No reason to give them more money that won't solve anything.

i agree

Good thing they don't need the people to vote for a tax increase, or else they might need to curb their spending for once.

HOW do you Curb spending on repairing the crumbling infrastructure? I agree we need to cut the pork and earmarks. That alone will not solve this issue!

gene and the rest of you promoting higher taxes no matter what. why don't you just donate the money to rebuild that bridge.

There's a lot of spending not in pork and earmarks that needs to be cut, too, that only serve to support the collection of those taxes. Cut out all that big government beaurocracy and you'll find there's plenty of money for roads.

The Clueless Old Liberal farted and out came the following:

HOW do you Curb spending on repairing the crumbling infrastructure? I agree we need to cut the pork and earmarks. That alone will not solve this issue!

Gene, I would dearly love to see you list the pork and earmarks that *you* specifically are for cutting, and would love to know just what the total amounts of that spending would be.

I have a feeling you'd have a hard time finding places that you would actually cut since you definitely have never been in favor of cutting taxes or keeping the tax-cuts that are currently in place and should have resulted in cuts in wasteful spending over the last several years.

In fact, I seem to recall you complaining long and loud that not enough revenue has been collected to meet obligations, so again, what obligations would *you* cut oh Clueless One.

Except for history . They never just add to gasoline, it's both gasoline and diesel. In fact the taxes on diesel are already higher than they are on gasoline and another 5 cents would add a great deal to the cost of operation.

While it's true that those costs do eventually get passed to the consumer, there is a lag. And it's that lag that hurts the truckers and causes a good many to lose their trucks. Trucking is highly competitive and the margins aren't nearly as big as some people think they are, and operating at close to a loss for even a few months can put a small outfit out of business.

I am still not convinced that these taxes even need to be raised and won't be until the billions in waste and the misplaced priorities are cut out or at least severely reduced.

Actually, I drive a Chevy Suburban. I get twenty.

A 12-15 MPG Suburban is either poorly tuned or poorly operated, one of the two.

Actually, I drive a Chevy Suburban. I get twenty. A 12-15 MPG Suburban is either poorly tuned or poorly operated, one of the two.

What kind of driving are you doing?  Short haul?  Speeds?

A friend had one of the big Chevy SUVs which had the little dashboard computer display that showed time/temp/fuel mileage/distance travelled type stuff.  It was painful to sit in the passenger seat seeing the fuel mileage (efficiency or lack there of) displayed.  I think it topped at an estimate of 15MPG when he was driving through the parking lot, and went down to the 12MPG range when he got out on the roads on our work campus doing the posted 25MPH limit.

The Explorer I drove for a while got me about 17 - 19MPG when I was using it, and actually darned close to 20MPG when I took the whole family down to Orlando on a Disney bound vacation.  For that trip I made heavy use of the cruise control and tried to keep my speed somewhat reasonable so I could avoid having to pay any entry/exit fees in the form of traffic citations along the way.