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IanTyger
IanTyger
Join Date 11/2001
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If it's such a violation of Civil Liberties, why vote Yes?

August 11, 2007 3:41:01 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Ed Morrissey (Who normally blogs at Captain's Quarters) has a piece on Heading Right that makes an interesting point. Why did the Democrats, who control both houses of Congress, and who have made many dire predictions about the NSA's wiretapping program, especially in the hands of that arch-destroy of civil liberties Alberto Gonzalez, pass the new wiretapping legislation? It doesn't look good for the Democrats.
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IanTyger
Locamama
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #1 August 11, 2007 5:54:52 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
There is a difference between wiretapping foreign suspects whose communications come through our country and U.S. citizens.
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IanTyger
Locamama
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Reply #2 August 11, 2007 5:56:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
There is a difference between wiretapping foreign suspects whose communications come through our country and U.S. citizens. There is also a difference between a President secretly instituting a plan that allows wiretapping of citizens wtihout a judge's order and a law that is discussed openly in the legislature and passed by a majority.
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IanTyger
Moderateman
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #3 August 11, 2007 6:57:21 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Because of the Great Power of George {MINDBENDER} Bush, he can bend simple minded people to his will, hence the vote.
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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #4 August 11, 2007 7:29:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
There is a difference between wiretapping foreign suspects whose communications come through our country and U.S. citizens.


Nice reversal, Loca. It's what I expect from Libs. When Republicans held Congress, EVERY Democrat I know said it was unConstitutional. Now suddenly it's all good!

Say what you will about Republicans. For all their failure, they're not as flaky as Dems for the most part.
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IanTyger
Locamama
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Reply #5 August 11, 2007 9:08:13 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Gid, you can't see the difference between GWB instating a secret illegal wiretapping program that targets citizen's communications without a warrant and a law that is open to public scrutiny, debated and passed legally through the Congress that targets foreign nationals and requires a warrant for surveilance of citizens? It is two very different things.

The Dem's can't win. If they hadn't passed this everyone would be crying saying that they don't care about national security.
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IanTyger
ParaTed2k
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Reply #6 August 11, 2007 9:46:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm still trying to figure out why the Democrats were so up in arms about Bush's wiretaps but so supportive of Clinton's "echelon" program.
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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #7 August 11, 2007 9:49:52 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The Dem's can't win. If they hadn't passed this everyone would be crying saying that they don't care about national security.


Not by ME, Loca! I have NEVER made that sort of allegation, and you KNOW it!
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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #8 August 11, 2007 9:51:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Gid, you can't see the difference between GWB instating a secret illegal wiretapping program that targets citizen's communications without a warrant and a law that is open to public scrutiny, debated and passed legally through the Congress that targets foreign nationals and requires a warrant for surveilance of citizens? It is two very different things.


So, what you're saying is that you think Human rights are CONDITIONAL! I'm saying I think human rights are INALIENABLE! And that is the position I have taken from the beginning!
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IanTyger
danielost
Join Date 07/2003
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Reply #9 August 11, 2007 10:00:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Gid, you can't see the difference between GWB instating a secret illegal wiretapping program that targets citizen's communications without a warrant and a law that is open to public scrutiny, debated and passed legally through the Congress that targets foreign nationals and requires a warrant for surveilance of citizens? It is two very different things.


bush didn't do this.


bush did this


wiretapping foreign suspects whose communications come through our country

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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #10 August 11, 2007 10:03:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Don't confuse her with the facts, danielost. The liberals can only teach her so many talking points at a time!
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IanTyger
danielost
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Reply #11 August 11, 2007 10:11:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
i only used her words
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IanTyger
IanTyger
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Reply #12 August 12, 2007 11:47:05 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I was reasonably sure that the vote essentially authorized EVERYTHING that the NSA was doing, both the foreign-to-foreign calls that pass through US switches, and the single-foreign-party calls that the NSA certifies invole a "person of interest". IE - the difference between before-bill and after-bill is that Congress signed off on it. We'll see what happens in 6 months.
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IanTyger
ParaTed2k
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Reply #13 August 12, 2007 11:54:39 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
So the Dems were so mad about how unconstitutional it was that they passed a law authorizing it? That doesn't change the US Constitution at all! So what is it Dems, was in Unconstitutional before this law, or did you just pass a law authorizing the president to do something unconstitutional?

Either way, anyone who protested Prs. Bush's actions, then voted Yea on this bill was lying in their protest.
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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #14 August 12, 2007 12:00:46 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Either way, anyone who protested Prs. Bush's actions, then voted Yea on this bill was lying in their protest.


EXACTLY!
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IanTyger
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #15 August 13, 2007 5:24:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Gid, you can't see the difference between GWB instating a secret illegal wiretapping program that targets citizen's communications without a warrant and a law that is open to public scrutiny, debated and passed legally through the Congress that targets foreign nationals and requires a warrant for surveilance of citizens? It is two very different things.

First, there has never been proof of any crime, just allegations.  And a lot of them just useless ones.

But second and most importantly, you dodged Ian's question.  WHY - if what you allege is true - would they then vote to give Bush and Gonzalez that power again?

If it was bad when the republicans passed it, why is it now ok (with the same administration in the white house) that the dems have passed it?

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IanTyger
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #16 August 13, 2007 5:30:42 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Liberals don't answer questions, Dr. She has to wait till she goes back to her Sunday cult gathering to get more talking points from her leader. Give her a break!
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IanTyger
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #17 August 16, 2007 12:13:40 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Gid, you can't see the difference between GWB instating a secret illegal wiretapping program that targets


That's the whole point. It wasn't illegal. If it had been GW would be in the middle of an impeachment in front of the senate.
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