The Poor Have the Highest Rate of Return

A man gives his servants different amounts of money to invest. To one, he gives 50,000. To the second, 20,000. And to the third, 10,000.

He leaves for a couple years, and comes back. The one he gave 50k now has 100k. He says, woohoo.
The one he gave 20k now has 40k. He says, great job.
The third had still 10k, because he buried it in a mayonaisse jar in the back yard.

So, he takes 20k from the first, 10k from the second, and gives 5k to the third. The remaining 25k is given to the high fructose corn syrup industry.

At least, that's what the government would do.

In the Bible version, the 10k was taken away from the servant and given to the richest.

This is pretty powerful proof that entitlements and welfare are not the way to go. Redistribution of wealth is great, as long as it's taking from those who do not know what to do with it and given to those who can handle it well.

Note that nothing was taken from or given to the middle servant.

We can't get rid of taxes altogether, because they are needed to take the money of many and pool it to solve common problems and provide for common needs. But that is ALL a government should be doing.

Giving money to people who can't handle it properly is bad news. It's already biting us in the butt. Often it's not even spent on food or housing, and goes to something else instead. If you give money to people for nothing, they will continue to give you nothing. It's the best return on investment ever. I give you nothing, and you give me something, is an infinite rate of return.

I think we need to make those on welfare do something for their food and housing, and give them food and housing instead of money. Community service hours springs to mind. I'm sure there are those who are able to work, but don't. If they had to do community service in exchange for living in a really bad place to live, perhaps they would rather get a job, so they could afford a better place.

Welfare for those who cannot work is still needed, but I think private charity can pick up the slack there, by doing their hours for them or some other way.

It should always be worse to be on welfare than to work, and it should always be worse to have additional children in this situation.

Currently we don't have the ability to put this system into place.

Please, let me know the pitfalls of this idea.
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Reply #1 Top
I think we need to make those on welfare do something for their food and housing, and give them food and housing instead of money. Community service hours springs to mind. I'm sure there are those who are able to work, but don't. If they had to do community service in exchange for living in a really bad place to live, perhaps they would rather get a job, so they could afford a better place.


If these people are able to do community service for their welfare, then they are able to go out and get a job.  Welfare needs to end or be severely overhauled.
Reply #2 Top
Exactly, they should go out and get a job. But if there is nobody hiring, we can't just let them starve.
Reply #3 Top
I think we need to make those on welfare do something for their food and housing, and give them food and housing instead of money. Community service hours springs to mind. I'm sure there are those who are able to work, but don't. If they had to do community service in exchange for living in a really bad place to live, perhaps they would rather get a job, so they could afford a better place.


Where I live our safe house (ie homeless shelter) has rules to stay there. It isn't a facility to just be a bum. I know many in the area are appalled in their dealings but I see more good then cons.

- They have to be actively working with a career counselor looking for a job.
- They must shower and learn proper hygiene.
- No drugs and no alcohol. One can loose their privilege of staying there as a result if alcohol is even smelled on them. This was put into place to help protect the children staying there.
- They receive a voucher to buy decent clothes at the Volunteers of America Thrift store.
- They are close to the Manna Soup kitchen where they can get one free hot meal per day.

This system allows those who are trying to start all over that chance to get started. I'm not sure the exact numbers of their success rate but I know it is working.

You can only help those who are willing to make the effort to better themselves.
Reply #4 Top
Exactly, they should go out and get a job. But if there is nobody hiring, we can't just let them starve.


Someone is always hiring.  The notion that people can't find a job anywhwere is complete nonsense.  The problem is it's not the job they "want" to do.


Reply #5 Top
But if there is nobody hiring

Someone is always hiring. The notion that people can't find a job anywhere is complete nonsense. The problem is it's not the job they "want" to do.

With unemployment at historic lows, it's very unlikely that there are no jobs in any field. You can always get a job in retail, telemarketing, or food service. Don't be like Cousin Eddie from the Vacation films -- don't "hold out for a management position".
Reply #6 Top
I agree with LW's point on poorhouses, for sure. I also think A-D's safe house is good, too.

As for people being able to find jobs, some people are absolutely unable to hold jobs. They need to be taught how. While that is going on, let them work on public projects. Hey, I hear they're going to need some people to build a wall pretty soon, let's take all the homeless and get them working!
Reply #7 Top
As for people being able to find jobs, some people are absolutely unable to hold jobs. They need to be taught how.


How do you teach someone to "hold" a job?  Show up on time, do your job, go home.  It's not that hard.
Reply #8 Top
Yeah, some people can't seem to figure that out.
Reply #9 Top
some people are absolutely unable to hold jobs. They need to be taught how.


Ok, I'll take the hard line. No they don't. They need to die off. Right away.

Mike Judge made a movie that had this as its basic premise. The undereducated, underpriveleged are breeding like rabbits. The more educated, more priveleged are waiting because they don't like the state of things. In 500 years of this, what you get is a world full of abject morons. Provided we can last another 500 years. Which I doubt. For some reason.

I hate to be an asshole, but if I have to, I have to. Love thy neighbor falls painfully short when your neighbor doesn't care enough about you to be productive. It's not hard. There are far too many ways for lazy people to claim that they don't have the skills to do a job (as was referenced earlier - meaning a job they *want*) and to then suck the teat of the American public dry because their 12th kid is starving. I'm sick to death of it, and I only see one way out. Let them die.

Harsh? Yeah. It is. Sorry. But once even two or three of them die, you're gonna see some hard-working mofos come crawling out of the woodwork. And about time.
Reply #10 Top
Show up on time, do your job, go home. It's not that hard.


You're right, of course, I_D. But it's a concept that escapes some people, strangely enough.

I believe that the environment of a poorhouse would offer adequate incentive to get off of one's rump, personally.
Reply #11 Top
Harsh? Yeah. It is. Sorry. But once even two or three of them die, you're gonna see some hard-working mofos come crawling out of the woodwork. And about time.


Love it.
Reply #12 Top
What if 50 k dude lost everything in the dot com bust? What if 20k dude decided to invest in subprime loans? Would Mr. safety be such a bad guy then? Do you think those that double their money are smarter than other people or just luckier?

As far as working instead of being on welfare are you going to provide childcare for the single mothers to volunteer? I think childcare is a huge issue to address when talking about getting people from welfare to work. Yes, I know poor people should not be allowed to reproduce but there it is. The same people who think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet have no problem condemning the poor who chose to carry their fetuses to term.

This is pretty powerful proof that entitlements and welfare are not the way to go.


How is this powerful proof? It is an imaginary scenario.


Ok, I'll take the hard line. No they don't. They need to die off. Right away.


Shame on you, Ock. I am really hoping you had your tongue in your cheek when you were writing this. I have no problem with taking away their cigarettes and cable TV but death - that's more than harsh.

Reply #13 Top
What if 50 k dude lost everything in the dot com bust? What if 20k dude decided to invest in subprime loans? Would Mr. safety be such a bad guy then? Do you think those that double their money are smarter than other people or just luckier?


And I thought I had a lot of questions. I guess you can say I consider myself the king of analyzing everything. I over analyze everything to the point of changing my mind several times before I make a decision. But these questions are just way too over analyzed even for me. There's always a little bit of luck in everything but many times smarts can also be an ingredient. In the end it doesn't matter, those who doubled their money be it by smarts or luck at least made the effort to double their money and succeeded thru either or both routes, which is what really matters, compared to those who won't even try. There's this story I use to hear in Puerto Rico, I'll try to translate:

There was a man who prayed to God every day and every night to win the lottery but would never win. You know why? Because he never bought a lottery ticket.

He always wanted something but never actually tried to get it himself. There is also a saying in Puerto Rico: Help yourself and God will help you.

As far as working instead of being on welfare are you going to provide childcare for the single mothers to volunteer? I think childcare is a huge issue to address when talking about getting people from welfare to work. Yes, I know poor people should not be allowed to reproduce but there it is. The same people who think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet have no problem condemning the poor who chose to carry their fetuses to term.


Why is it that you think everyone deserves some kind of help in order to make progress? Why can't they do it on their own? I have 2 kids, one in summer camp and the other in daycare. My wife started working about 6 to 8 months ago, we have had our kids either in daycare or in school and being picked up by a friend after school while we work. We pay around $150 a week between both, that's $600 a month on average. I was making $11 and my wife $9. I am now up to $13 thanks to being hired permanently and then getting a promotion a few days ago. I don't get any Gov't help, I don't get any family help. I work and I pay for my services. Why is this so hard for any family or single parent? My mom did it just fine as well. This whole idea of having to give someone help just because we "think" they need it as oppose to expecting them to do it on their own is something I would expect to do with children, not adults. How can we expect people to learn to survive when all we keep doing is teaching them to depend on others? Almost the entire animal kingdom parental system is based on teaching their offspring or them being born with the knowledge to survive on their own. How is it that we being the "smart" ones can't even grasp this concept?
Reply #14 Top
The same people who think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet have no problem condemning the poor who chose to carry their fetuses to term.


I hate that about Liberals. They catch people making fools of themselves. Liberals are not supposed to be able to think or catch things like that. you are supposed to discuss what is being said NOW, why do you bring what was said before? You are an elite liberal for sure. ooooh nooo. liberals dont know how to research, analyze, or do any of that mental work.

.... i dont know what you are loca. Just say Amen. ok?
Reply #15 Top
.... i dont know what you are loca. Just say Amen. ok?


amen
Reply #16 Top
The same people who think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet have no problem condemning the poor who chose to carry their fetuses to term.


Isn't this country great when 2 people can see the same situation 2 differnt ways? Where you see condemnation, I see responsability. You see in the end this debate is easily ended, the woman should have never gotten pregnant (not by rape) in the first place. But what people like you want is to create a system designed to help the idiots of this society while not calling them idiots, because they have rights, right? The right to be idiots.

I hate that about Liberals. They catch people making fools of themselves. Liberals are not supposed to be able to think or catch things like that. you are supposed to discuss what is being said NOW, why do you bring what was said before? You are an elite liberal for sure. ooooh nooo. liberals dont know how to research, analyze, or do any of that mental work.

.... i dont know what you are loca. Just say Amen. ok?


LOL, this right here proves Draginols article, witty replies used as a substitute for a coherent argument for their position.
Reply #17 Top
Man, we have a whole thread which I really don't want to point anyone to discussing how great women are and what they can do, even when they're pregnant. So, I'm sure they can take care of their kids AND do community service. They don't need childcare. The kids can work! And if there's a baby, I'm sure Mommy can put him in a wrap and carry him around as she works, too.

That's assuming the father isn't around, though. If he is, he should be carrying a kid, too. Family community service time!
Reply #18 Top
Nah, it's not bad enough that we have women paying strangers minimum-wage to raise their children in daycare centers while they trade their motherhood for the almighty dollar. We now expect government to provide it 'free of charge.'


Here's a not so hypothetical situation.

Father works a full time plus job. Mom has three babies and plans on attending school to complete her education that was put on hold to have children before the biological clock stopped ticking. Childcare cost is $1200.00 a month. School is no longer an option.

For our family to get better childcare assistance is a must have. I would be on the streets without WIC. Our formula alone is over $800 a month.

We aren't poor. We are strapped and trying to forge a better life. Should we not avail ourselves to these programs if they are there and we qualify?

I understand that someone who doesn't work and can't wait for the first of the month is different but if these sorts of programs didn't exist, I don't have any idea how we would make it.
Reply #19 Top
Oh, I was being serious, LW. Put that baby in a wrap and get working. My kid would love to run around the park as we're cleaning it. Heck, he'd probably even (try to) help.

As for just john, take advantage of them. But, it's not going to get any better as you start making more money. In fact, there's a hole where your lifestyle will get worse if you make too much money yourself. That's the real problem with the system. It does not encourage bettering oneself at a certain point.

Good luck, man!
Reply #20 Top
Teach abstinence? (pfft, kids are gonna screw anyway. Liberals NEVER wonder why our parents and grandparents and all those generations who went before them managed to wait until marriage before having children, though. It does not matter to them.)


Yes, in the good ol' days every bride was a virgin on her wedding night. Nope, the difference was that if a woman got pregnant it was unacceptable to have a child out of wedlock and keep it. Either they went to Aunt Tilly's for a visit and gave the baby up for adoption or they got married in a big hurry.

God forbid we wait till we're married, educated, and financially stable before bringing new life into the world. It's just not FAIR to expect people to do that.


Yep, that would be great but we're not talking about the world how it should be. We're talking about the reality of how it is.
Reply #21 Top
Oh, and by the way - they managed because only the men worked. Moms were free childcare. When women joined the workforce, it created the dual-income family. Not only did it remove that childcare, but it also raised the cost of living to a point where it's extremely hard to just be starting out with a single income. It's not impossible, just harder. If every family had a single income, it would bring prices back down, and it would be a lot easier financially to live off one income.
Because of the rise in divorce, there are more single income families, so that will keep the prices from continuing their ascent. If people have more money to spend, they demand more, and the price goes up. Dual-income families have more money. That simple.

So here I am, with my entry-level job, with someone in the family having to get a night job to hopefully pay off enough stuff that we can be in the black from week to week.

If the health insurance we DID have had paid for the health care we wanted, ie, the $3,000 midwife they didn't pay a dime for, while we paid $250 per month premiums for however many months, we might have had that leeway now. But you know, why would health insurance want to cover your care? That might cost them money. At least they covered the hospital stay for her.
Reply #22 Top
Are you both making more than $14,400 a year working? If not, economically, it makes more sense for one of you to stay home and be with the children. (Oh heaven forbid I make another statement saying a woman shouldn't be out in the workplace, how sexist!) Hey, and without all that extra income, maybe you can qualify for more benefits from the government!
Reply #23 Top
The same people who think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet have no problem condemning the poor who chose to carry their fetuses to term.


i don' t think abortion is the most evil thing on the planet. i think mass murder like Saddam, Hitler, Stalin and Manson have done is the most evil.


not even sure it is evil at all. but it is wrong
Reply #24 Top
it makes more sense for one of you to stay home and be with the children.


i agree with this one but with the income tax and economy as it is and has been for 16 years or more you have to have two incomes for a family usually
Reply #25 Top
Well, if the cost of childcare is higher than the revenue stream from your job, it is costing you money to work. However, it is up to each individual to value

1. Their sanity that's lost staying home with the kids.
2. The value of being the one with your kids every day.

My family finds number 2 very important, so even if it made financial sense for my wife to work I don't think she would. By 'work' I mean be away from the kids and get childcare for them that is not me. Like, full time day job. What she does now, while it is definitely work, involves her continued mothering of our children, and therefore does not violate #2, but it also causes the loss of sanity to be higher than normal. Ah, nannying. So glad that's not what I do.