I believe... it may be time to raise the gasoline tax

Something that a few people missed me saying over the last few days (see article: Minn Bridge problems Bush fault, no, Clinton! no, Bush!) is that I believe it may be time to raise the gasoline tax in this country (the U.S.A.)

I hate the idea of raising taxes, and hate the idea of paying taxes, and the thought of paying $0.20 - $0.75 more per gallon in gasoline taxes doesn't appeal to me all that much until...   Well, until I start thinking about the crappy roads I have to drive on, and how the road surfaces haven't been replaced, or at least not adequately replaced in many, many years in some cases.

I drive on roads that have seen cracks sealed up numerous times.  Patches have been laid upon patches, and the roadways show their age and the long term wear and abuse that have resulted from years and years of many more vehicles than originally planned for running over them.

Roadways are things that are supposed to be paid for primarily from user fees.  User fees in the form of gasoline taxes and fees levied upon those that drive motor vehicles.  Vehicle registration fees and the like.  Fees that impact directly upon the user, rather than (hopefully) unfairly hitting those that can least afford it.

People that primarily use mass transit don't typically have to concern themselves with gasoline taxes, vehicle registration fees and that sort of stuff because they are not directly using motor vehicles.  They may be riders of buses and such, but generally they aren't directly using the roadways through their own personally owned vehicle, or their own commercial vehicle.

Unfortunately, over the last 20+ years, the cost of doing business has increased many times over, and the cost of building infrastructure has increased accordingly.  What hasn't increased accordingly is the revenue that should be going into building roadways and other infrastructure.  Since gasoline taxes are typically fixed amounts, rather than percentages of the price for a gallon of gasoline, the government has been collecting pennies when it needs to be collecting dollars.  Revenues that used to be adequate for rebuilding and building roadways are now mere percentages of the amounts that are really needed to keep up and try to get ahead of our needs.

So, to be truthful here, I believe it is time to seriously consider raising the gasoline taxes in this country.  Perhaps make them a percentage of the cost for a gallon of gasoline, or, maybe not, since the price of gasoline fluctuates too much.  But, most certainly we need to move from the current point (which, if I recall correctly was somewhere around $0.35 a gallon) to one where we are collecting about 4 times that amount, if not more.  Enough so that we can collect the money we need to sink back into building roads that will last much longer, and into repairing the roadways that we have so that they will last much longer.

I'm sure I'd hate to be paying these increased gasoline taxes, but the alternative is to continue riding on roadways that are getting more unsafe by the minute.  And of course, if the gasoline taxes are raised, perhaps I'll be pushed into buying a vehicle that is much more energy efficient and that will have the side effect of helping to reduce this nation's dependence upon foreign oil for our driving needs.  I'd like nothing better than to leave that many more barrels of oil under the ground in the middle-east while the 'death to America' crowd cries when the great Satan stops buying all of their oil.

5,692 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top
Brother can you spare a few more cents per gallon to cover the transportation needs for yourself?  (not for everyone else, or at least not for that many more people than yourself).
Reply #2 Top
I disagree, terp. The problem we have is funds are not being spent efficiently enough. When the government has a surplus of any tax, they simply appropriate it to an unrelated area.

We don't need higher taxes, we need greater efficiency. And we're not likely to get that by repeatedly signing blank checks for the government!
Reply #3 Top
I disagree, terp. The problem we have is funds are not being spent efficiently enough. When the government has a surplus of any tax, they simply appropriate it to an unrelated area.

We don't need higher taxes, we need greater efficiency. And we're not likely to get that by repeatedly signing blank checks for the government!


Gid and I are in agreement with this one.
Reply #4 Top

The problem we have is funds are not being spent efficiently enough. When the government has a surplus of any tax, they simply appropriate it to an unrelated area.

I wish it was that simple Gid, but I don't think it's just a case of the funds not being spent efficiently enough.

I know that there are plenty of times when the government does things in the most inefficient manner possible.  Believe me, I know of those sorts of things as there are software packages used at my job that the government pays *large* amounts of money for yearly maintenance on.  If they paid for multiple years at one time, they could reduce the per year cost quite significantly.  If they paid for say 5 years worth of maintenance at one time, they'd pay roughly 2 and a half years worth of fees for that service, saving 50% of the costs over time.  The longer they sign up for, the more they can save in fees, and yet they don't.  Because they can't, or because it's too hard to do, and they can't get funding from next year's pool of money to spend this year, or whatever the excuse is.

It costs million$ to continue down that same path, and yet nothing changes despite the best efforts of people tasked with managing the maintenance fees for it all.

That is just an example of a place where money could be saved if the government really wanted it to be done that way, but I don't believe those kinds of examples apply to road building and maintanence.

Consider again how much the costs of most things have gone up over the last several years.  Exclude computers (which seem to continue to buck the trend of always getting more expensive) and most consumer electronics items, and look at homes where inflation has meant a home that cost $200,000 some years ago is now $800,000 or more.  Even a simple mobile home has gone from being a $30,000 purchase to being a $130,000 purchase.

Things cost more now than they did back when $0.35 (give or take) per gallon could fund the transportation trust fund and keep us going on and on with it.  The people that build roadways now get paid a lot more for their work so that they can pay for their cars and their houses, for their children to go to school, for their health care, etc.  But the pool that funds their work hasn't really grown exponentially like all of these other costs have.

I want money to be spent right, but I also want to know that there is enough there to do the building that has to be done.  States have ignored the road ways (for the most part) over the last several years because they were busy spending the money they had on other things (like schools as an example, an area where I truly believe we have been terribly inefficient) and the Feds have not been much better.

Sure there have been money for some pork-barrel projects (bridges to no-where in Alaska anyone?), but again, the amount of money that has been tossed back into road building hasn't been near what it should be, and I believe that has more to do with a lack of revenue coming into the transportation trust fund coffers more than anything else.

There are lots of other issues involved to, including many NIMBY types that refuse to let new roadways be built in their area, or environmental types that are more worried about protecting some lizards, or birds, or insects of some sort, or perhaps protecting some land that occassionally could be considered wet-lands, but again, when push comes to shove, I think it comes down to not enough money to handle the road building needs.

Want a bit of proof?  Look at Virginia and their whacky plan to impose 'abuser' fees so that they can raise million$ to spend on road building.  Look at Maryland where the state finds itself in a structural deficit of $1.5 billion.  Look at lots of states.  Heck, look at the bridge that just fell in Minnesota.

Look at the roads you drive on and tell me you really don't think they need resurfacing soon?  That a few of the bridges around you don't need to be looked at and possibly replaced sooner rather than later.

Then tell me again that you don't think the problem is money and a lack of enough of it?

Reply #5 Top
Terp,

What was the Gas Tax originally for?
Reply #6 Top
When I see Caltrans {the California Government} on the side of the road 'fixing things here is what I see, One man or woman with a sign at either end of the construction using the sign to stop or slow traffic, wage for this 18 Plus per hour, then I see a guy sitting in a piece of heavy machinery on the side of the road doing nothing yet, wage for this? 65 to 95 an hour. then there are at least 2 white hats, supervisors they are, what they make or what they are doing there I have no Idea. then there is four or five laborerers of which 3 are scratching their balls, one is scratching his ass and one is sweating breaking his ass working, starting wages for these guys start at 18 per hour.
Reply #7 Top
disagree, terp. The problem we have is funds are not being spent efficiently enough. When the government has a surplus of any tax, they simply appropriate it to an unrelated area.

We don't need higher taxes, we need greater efficiency. And we're not likely to get that by repeatedly signing blank checks for the government!


Gid and I are in agreement with this one.


ditto here too
Reply #8 Top
Terp,

What was the Gas Tax originally for?


to repair and build roads period.
Reply #9 Top
to repair and build roads period.


Department of Transportation Secretary Mary Peters said billions of dollars were available for road and bridge repairs.

The politicizing of this is bordering absurd.
Reply #10 Top

I disagree, terp. The problem we have is funds are not being spent efficiently enough. When the government has a surplus of any tax, they simply appropriate it to an unrelated area.

We don't need higher taxes, we need greater efficiency. And we're not likely to get that by repeatedly signing blank checks for the government!

Beat me to it!  My thoughts exactly.

Reply #11 Top

Department of Transportation Secretary Mary Peters said billions of dollars were available for road and bridge repairs.

The only problem is that billion$ don't buy nearly what they used to.

I remember distinctly when a roads bill was being lobbied for very hard back in the Reagan era.  That bill involved billion$ in funding for road projects that would cover a span of a few years.  Back then -- which, oh, yeah, by the way, was over 20 years ago, billion$ was a lot of money and bought a lot of road construction, a lot of materials for building roadways, and paid for a lot of labor to get it all done.

Billion$ needs to be hundreds of billion$ now, not just tens of billion$.  That money has to come from somewhere, and I believe that the fairest place to get it from is from the people that use the roadways (like me).

The politicizing of this is bordering absurd.

That is utter garbage.

If you don't know it, I'm one of the more conservative individuals here at JoeUser.  I don't like taxes, and don't like tax hikes for the taxes we do have to pay.  I know that we waste a lot of money with giveaways to people that don't really need the tax money, but I'll be damned if that waste is even going to come close to what it would take to do the types of road building that are facing all of us here in the U.S.A.

I'm not going to do the research for you, but the numbers are available.  Check what we spend in a year on transportation costs, and then do a little more research on how much money is sitting in the so-called transportation trust fund.  The numbers don't add up.

I'll stop now, because if I continue, I'll probably be writing a chapter for the Clueless Old Liberal's next book and I really don't want to do that.

Suffice it to say that as a proud Republican I don't like the thought of raising taxes at all, but given the numbers of vehicles that ride the highways, and the deficit when it comes to highway miles that are needed -- highway miles being the road surfaces that are needed -- anyone that wants to be short sighted and turn their back on the thought that we need to be pro-active on road building is being pretty foolish.

If you want to go get the money from farm subsidies, welfare, medicare, medicaid, and so on, have fun, but I'd point out that getting money out of most of those programs isn't easy.  Many have tried, and failed.  Reagan included.

And to get back on point, the gas tax should be the primary source of funding for roads and transportation.  Not other miscellaneous items.  And that funding seems to me to be no where near where it should be to cover the costs that we are facing in the future.

We can deficit spend on the issue if people want, but if we do heaven help us all as the Clueless One bleets out yet more 'the sky is falling' messages because of that deficit spending.

Let the transportation trust fund get back to paying for what it is supposed to, in it's entireity, and and lets get away from having to postpone repair work, and new road building until well into the future when it will wind up costing many times more than it could have thanks to inflationary pressures.

Reply #12 Top
this was 6 years ago in utah. but one mile of roadway cost one million dollars. don't know if that includes bridges.
Reply #13 Top
That is utter garbage.


Terp, I believe you misunderstood me. I was referring to the politicizing of this event. How somehow this is Bush's fault. I wasn't talking about you. My bad for the confusion.
Reply #14 Top

Terp, I believe you misunderstood me. I was referring to the politicizing of this event. How somehow this is Bush's fault. I wasn't talking about you. My bad for the confusion.

Thanks for the clarification.

I do understand your concerns on the politicizing of this tragedy.  That is the thing that first torqued me off about the situation and the bleeting of the clueless one, but, I have to say, there is a very tiny grain of truth in what I noticed as one of the headlines that appeared in the sidebar recently -- that being that the infrastructure needs in this country haven't been adequately met.

With all due respect to my libertarian friend, and Dr. Guy, etc., I think an honest review of the situation would find that we just haven't been spending enough on our roadways, and/or haven't been collecting enough money to spend on them.

I am well aware that the clowns in the Virginia legislature, along with the Democrats that have been governors there recently, have had no end of grief in finding solutions to the transportation problems that have faced Northern Virginia.  They just haven't had the money to build the roadways that they need.  It hasn't been a case of NIMBYs blocking the roadways (that has been more the case in Maryland, where the NIMBY's have worked hard to stop the Inter-County Connector that would help get traffic off the Beltway, and help move people into and out of Northern Virginia, Montgomery County, etc.) but instead has been a case of a legislature that hasn't been able to fund road projects while also taking care of the other needs of the residents of the state.

As I noted above, Maryland is facing a $1.5 billion structural deficit.  I refuse to believe that deficit is the fault of Bush, the GOP controlled congress, or even the now Democrat controlled congress.  We had a Republican governor in Maryland (first time in 40 years) and the clowns that controlled the legislature here -- quite specifically the speaker of the clowns, Michael Busch -- worked hard to keep that poor man from passing a slots/casino gambling bill that would have helped fund some of the required spending in the state, and would have helped eliminate some of that structural deficit.

Can a state spend money on roadways when it can't afford (supposedly) to educate it's youngsters?  When it can't afford to handle the health care needs of it's residents and those that are in the state illegally (again, thanks in large part to liberals that refused to actually enforce immigration laws, and refuses to work towards deporting and discourgaging illegals from coming to the state), can the state handle many millions, if not hundreds of millions in roadway building?

I don't know.  I doubt it, but I just don't know.

 

As to this:

this was 6 years ago in utah. but one mile of roadway cost one million dollars. don't know if that includes bridges.

I wouldn't be surprised at those numbers or numbers even higher.

Again, I'm not going to sit here and write a book for the clueless one, or write a chapter in what would become one of his worthless tomes.  I'd rather see individuals that are reading my thoughts do their own research and really think about the situation.  If they did, I think they'd see I'm not crazy and that we have a serious need that should be addressed sooner, rather than later.

Reply #15 Top

Oh, hell, I did do a little research here for everyone.

Danielost (and others) - check out these numbers: http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-14011-28076--F,00.html

How much does it cost to build a new highway?

Answer:

A mile of freeway through an urban area costs approximately $39 million, while a mile of freeway through a rural area costs approximately $8 million.