Idea for resources in Gal Civ 3

Before I get to my idea, I just want to say that I put a lot of thought into this. Also remember that, if you think this is too complicated, that this idea can always be simplified, and likely will be simplified, if it ever is implemented. I also am not suggesting that the space resources be removed, unless, of course, Stardock wants to go that route.

At its simplest form, my idea is to add tradable resources on planets. Of course it is more complex than that, so please bear with me.

This idea was initially inspired by the resource system in Civilization IV. In that game, you can claim recourses that give you bonuses or allow you to build certain units, and these resources are tradable. I should make clear that I have no intention of suggesting a direct clone of the Civilization IV resource system. (I will explain more later)

These resources will be located on planets, instead of in space. They would appear not just on habitable planets, but also on class 0 planets, finally giving them some usefulness. Resources on habitable planets are obtained by colonizing them, while those on class 0 planets can be hooked up with a space miner (or a new unit, if you so desire, although I personally prefer the space miner option). If you want to make things more interesting, you can have class 0 planets also have different environments, and these planets cannot be mined until you have the basic colonization tech. (For this system to work most effectively, the game needs to distinguish between rocky and gas planets)

Once you have one these resources, they will do one of a variety of things. The most interesting would be weapon resources, which allows you to research and use better weapons. Unlike oil in Civilization IV, there should not be a be-all end-all resource. Each resource is tied to a specific side-branch located along one of the main weapon technology lines. (They would not branch out at the beginning of the tech tree. At the earliest, they would branch our after plasma weapons, harpoon, and singularity drivers. The final locations would have to be determined through lots of testing and would undergo a lot of corrections for balance) These weapons are more significantly expensive to research and build, but also do more damage. If you do not have the needed resources, you can still research up the main tech lines. Since these weapons are much cheaper to research and build, a skilled player can still compete militarily by out researching or out producing his or her opponents.

There are other resources that can do a large number of other things. Some can unlock certain buildings, increase stats (like the space resources). If the game makes the distinction between gas and rocky planets, there can be resources that can only be found on gas giants. Let your imagination run wild! The main idea, though, is that there should be no one resource that you MUST have. They should be carefully balanced so it is still possible to win even if you have no resources at all, in the same way it is possible to win without any of the space resources we have right know: it is difficult and undesirable, but it can be done.

Another idea is that, like in Civilization IV, some of these resources are not visible until you research a certain technology. This would especially be true of weapons technologies. Essentially, when the resource becomes visible represents when that civilization realizes that resource has value. In addition, these resources could stack, increasing in effect the more you have. With weapon and building resources, the weapon or building connected to the resource will be cheaper to research and build. Of course, if this is too complex, both of these ideas can be scraped.

If you loose a resource, you loose any stat-boosting effects, and can no longer build or research anything connected to that resource. However, anything you already built (ships, buildings, ext.) will work as normal)

Another major point of my idea is that these resources should be tradable, which can open up some interesting dynamics. Most importantly, these resources these resources should be rare enough that it is simply impossible to have them all without trading. Some resources, like the weapon-related resources, would be impossible to obtain. Unless you are close/in an alliance, and even then it is very expensive. In addition, trading resources, especially weapon-related resources, with a civ will anger that civ’s enemies, and will result in a drop in relations.

It would take a lot of work with the AI to get the trading system working without making it an exploit. This is one of the reasons I do not expect to see anything remotely similar to this until at least Gal Civ 3. But I think it will add some interesting dynamics to the game.

I would like to hear you’re thought on this. Especially, I would like to hear your ideas on additional resource effects. Remember, however, that this idea can always be simplified as desired, so please don’t simply complain about how this is "too complicated." Tell me how you want to see this simplified. I want to know.
16,139 views 22 replies
Reply #1 Top
I do like the idea of galactic resources being found on class 0 Planets, but I'm not sure I like the idea of them being able to be traded or found on normal planets: special tiles are not enough? Instead, I think I'd like to be able to use a survey ship to survey class 0 worlds for special resources, and then using constructors to build "mining colonies" that act like resource starbases in GC 3. In other words, you don't see resources on the star map, you need to find them on class 0 planets before you can mine them. Just a thought.
Reply #2 Top
I do like the idea of galactic resources being found on class 0 Planets, but I'm not sure I like the idea of them being able to be traded or found on normal planets: special tiles are not enough? Instead, I think I'd like to be able to use a survey ship to survey class 0 worlds for special resources, and then using constructors to build "mining colonies" that act like resource starbases in GC 3. In other words, you don't see resources on the star map, you need to find them on class 0 planets before you can mine them. Just a thought.


Finding resources like that is a perfect good idea.

As for resources on habitable planets: the way I imagin this, the distribution would be completely random, with the class 0 planets being more heavily weighted. So, while there are some resources on habitable planets, the majority are on class 0 planets.
Reply #3 Top
So lets say there a toxic class 2 planet hanging about. well if you put a colony with a mining base (I'll get to the mining base improvement in a minute) on that planet you can use that resource.

So if you have the toxic gas resource, you can use the gas warfare invasion tactic.

A mining base improvement would simply give you the ability to mine one of the planets resources (depending on how many it has), so, either there's a different mining base for each of the different resources, or you can only mine one resource per mining base.

I don't think you could just give the other civ mining base when its on your planet, so maybe you could "share the resource", i.e. he gets so much % of the bonus your resource provides.
Reply #4 Top
I only said that you cannot access resources on harsh environment planets without the basic colonization tech for that environment. The class, or the type of envirionment, have no effect on the resources available (unless, of course, this is a direction you wish to go).


Also, I never said anything about handing over the base. "Share the resource," as you said, is exactly what I was talking about. Trading the resource would have the same effect as having the resource itself. (For a simplified version, see the resource system in Civilization IV) If you want to go that route, you could have multiples of a resource have a stacking effect, so the things they unlock become cheaper and/or more effective.

Finally, either a single mining base will grant access to all resources on a planet, or there can never be two or more resources on a planet. I personally favore the latter. Also, with habitable plenets, building a mine is not needed. You jest need to colonize.


The idea of resources opening up invasion tactics is something I find interesting, by the way.
Reply #5 Top
OK. so forget the mining bases.

But I was thinking...
Instead of Xiniuthum hull plating, you could just have a resource called Xiniuthum that raises your HP levels and makes your singularity drivers more powerful...

What if you could mine something on a star, like, heck, I don't know... but what if you could mine stuff on a star?

Plus, It would make sense to put more resources on those class zero planets, it make all those empty star systems way more useful.
Reply #6 Top
I like your idea   I think its better than the abstract resources we have now. I dont think there is any reason why one couldn't find special resources anywhere, whether on a colonised planet, a class 0 planet or in an asteroid. Perhaps each special resource is only seeded in a certain environment. I think this system could completely replace the current one. Its a good'un.
Reply #7 Top
Good idea. Have the resources mined with mining colonies built with constructors. Although with a mining colony you don't have homes for people you don't need colonizing technologies to claim them. At the basic level, you could claim the planet by sending a constructor on it. That woud be a basic mining colony.

Like a few domes and people in space suits with lots of equipment to drill for a little of the resource which is then sent in large cargo ships to the nearest planet. As you want to increase mining you need to have more miners and equipment then what can be provided by a few domes and small biospheres. You want to make a sizable portion of the planet haitable. At most the planet can be class 2 at top technological level. One factory and starport. No planetary capital. Resources like Xinathium would be mined and then sent to a Xinathium Steel Mill which would give your ships extra hit points.

Or you could mine Teovium, a fusable particle that can produce a nuclear fusion reaction with little to no radiation output. Which could increase production. You have a Teovium resource. You can build Teovium Power plants which increase production. The more you mine the resource the more Teovium power plants you can build.

Or Itomin which is a special crystal which can magnify an energy beam passing through it by 50%. So your beam weapon ships with 10 beam attack would get 5 beam attack bonus. Or something which is resistance to energy bursts improving my sheild defence by 50%.

Or something like that.

Just my 0.02$.

-Scot

Reply #8 Top
I love your ideas.

I have some more suggestions if you will.

I love the mining base and planet claming thing but I think they should have differents rules when it comes to planetary invasion.

Dunno if anyone of you played Europa Universalis 3, but in that game, if you have a colony (wherever), and a nation with which you are at war against send troops there the colony flip automatically (w/o the need for a peace treaty) if you win the combat there, if any, of course. The point is, you should be able to just invade a colony w/o using troops transport or at least w/o using them up. What do you need 1B people to invade a mining colony with at most 10 000 people for?

Also, they would have to abide by the same rules for cultural loyalty as Asteroids mining base.

For colonizable worlds, in fact for all worlds (the mining base is some sort of colonization after all.), the special resources should be linked with the planet as the ring and moons are right now (I.E.: Show in the statistics window and not on the planet itself) thus, you could colonize an habitable planet and build more mining station on it to increase the output of the said resource (I.E: increase the value in % of the boost that the resource give, a little like the mining modules on the starbase now) thus opening more choices as to what to do with a planet. (Ex.: Wow, just colonize a PQ20 world, Oh it has that great resource on it... Damn, I need an Industrial world! Do I Mine or do I Industrialize?)

Finally, I think there should still be space mining done. Perhaps not in the same general way it's done now, but still resources should exist in space, at least in nebulae (which are probably to be implemented in GC3).
Reply #9 Top
ShadowWorrior, perhaps their could be a Xiniuthum resource, but there would have to be a new glactic acheivement to replace it.

"Perhaps each special resource is only seeded in a certain environment." (AdelaideBread)
Since a new jovian environment will need to be added, I see no reason for other class-0 only environments to be added as well.


"Good idea. Have the resources mined with mining colonies built with constructors. Although with a mining colony you don't have homes for people you don't need colonizing technologies to claim them. At the basic level, you could claim the planet by sending a constructor on it. That woud be a basic mining colony." (TP Scot)
That's is basically what is it, but I would perfer mining ships over constructors, and you would need the first environment technology to mine planets with that environment.


"Or you could mine Teovium, a fusable particle that can produce a nuclear fusion reaction with little to no radiation output. Which could increase production. You have a Teovium resource. You can build Teovium Power plants which increase production. The more you mine the resource the more Teovium power plants you can build." (TP Scot)
In my original idea, before needed to research a new technology before you could fully utilize a resource. All of these new technologies would be near the begining of the technology tree, but the more powerful resources will be more expensive to research. The more resources you have, the cheaper it is to research the technology and build the attatched buildings, and the buildings would be more powerful.


"Or Itomin which is a special crystal which can magnify an energy beam passing through it by 50%. So your beam weapon ships with 10 beam attack would get 5 beam attack bonus. Or something which is resistance to energy bursts improving my sheild defence by 50%." (TP Scot)
That's something to consider, although 50% might be a bit high. These resources are designed to stack.


"Finally, I think there should still be space mining done. Perhaps not in the same general way it's done now, but still resources should exist in space, at least in nebulae (which are probably to be implemented in GC3)." (Alexender000)
There can be resources in asteroids.
Reply #10 Top
Or Itomin


How about Tiberium! Like in C&C 1!

It would just boost your economy because it's worth a load of $$!

So lets see here...
Teovium: boost production bonuses for each power plant. (common)
Itonim: boosts laser attacks. (uncommon)
Detonim: boosts shield defense. (uncommon)
Orecrim: boosts MD attacks. (uncommon)
Dekicrim: boosts armor Defense. (uncommon)
quesine: boosts missile attacks. (uncommon)
anti-quesine: boosts point defense. (uncommon)
Tiberium: boosts economy. (common)
Power crystals: boosts speed. (rare)
Yonanium: boosts research. (common)
Valibrium: boosts morale. (common)
Toxic gases or other dangerous materials: boosts soldiering ability. (rare)
Rocks: useless... (Abundant!)

Just a list of what could be used.

just my 3 cents!  
Reply #11 Top
How about Tiberium! Like in C&C 1!


You pretty much have never heard of copyright law as a force in the world, right?

drrider
Reply #12 Top
One of my old threads discusses something that would be a nice change in resources for Galciv2. (Or atleastone of them anyway)

Food should be stockable
Reply #15 Top
Thank's for all the support. Hopefully, stardock will pick up on this. Unfortunantly, I only just realized something that may prove to be a problem: the AI. Stardock almost never adds a feature is they cannot get the AI to use it properly, so these changes would entail a lot of AI work. This is partly why I do not expect to see this until GalCiv3, which will certainly be several years from now. Fortunantly, this idea can easily be simplified if needed, depending on what the AI can and can't handle. For examply, if the AI cannot handle new reseach lines opening (and closing, if they loose a resource), than that feature can be removed.
Reply #16 Top
The only resource that the AI (or you for that matter) are using effectively or correctly in the game is... bc! The AI has never traded any of the current resources, (I play DL still), if I ask them for a mining base that is mining a research resource, it doesn't matter if I offer them my whole fu**ing empire, they will sit there and reject it.

bc should be used to manage resources, not actually be one itself.
Reply #18 Top
I should clarifiy that in this approach, trading resources does not mean trading mining bases. Look at the CIV IV resources for a rough idea. (Although I do NOT want a clone pf the CIV IV system. See the first post)
Reply #19 Top
Exactly. For each resource, there could be a set number of other empires it could supply, and you would give access to that resource via. the diplomacy window by making deals in exchange for whatever you wanted, or simply for profit. It would be neat if trade routes with empires with which you were trading resources generated more or less income depending on what you were selling or buying to simulate the actual buying and selling of the resource on a regular basis. You might even need a trade route in order to benifit from buying/selling at all.
Reply #20 Top
First off, Great ideas TOV! Right now trade can pretty much be ignored, but I think your ideas have a lot of promise. I generally don't spend much time on trade unless I really, really need money, but this could help add a whole new depth to trade and make it an essential and enjoyable part of the game.

As far as your concerns about getting the behavior for all this into the AI, I'm not sure it would be a difficult as you might think. I don't know any specifics about the AI, but I do have a math degree and I know how those types of problems get solved. Depending on how it was implemented and what kind of tolerance there was for strategies that weren't the most optimal, it might not even be too computationally expensive.
Reply #21 Top
haha by bc, I thought you meant bull cr_p!


The proper way to put that is BS (Bullsh*t)  
Reply #22 Top
"Exactly. For each resource, there could be a set number of other empires it could supply"
Ah! That makes perfect sense. However, the way I envisioned this, a single resource cannot be tradded a second time. It is either used by your civilization, or traded with one race.