Sure, close Gitmo because of what happened years ago, but leave Iraqis to be tortured and beheaded by the terrorists. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But did they commit a crime, daiwa? That's been my point all along.

Now, I'll buy the point that because of the sensitive nature of this particular situation, some form of due process other than our standard court procedure may be in order. God knows all we need is Achmed sending subtle attack messages on Court TV. But due process SHOULD be given these detainees, in some form or the other. Holding them indefinitely without trial is against everything we stand for and believe.

Hand them over to the government in Afghanistan?

Afghanistan has the death penalty for treason, I am sure.

No I didn't miss that part, danielost. Don't project your own lack of reading comprehension skills onto me.

What constitutes an act of war, though? If they're defending THEIR sovereign nation, how can they be construed to be waging war on us?

Look, I'm perfectly willing to believe that everyone detained in Gitmo is guilty of war crimes. I have no problem with that possibility. ALL I am asking is to allow due process to present the evidence and to allow the detainees to call witnesses in their favor. And while I believe that the rights we hold dear in our Constitution were meant to apply to ALL humans, our court system was not.

I would be happy with military tribunals, personally. I would be happy with the international equivalent of a court martial. I am NOT happy with indefinite detention and unsupported allegations.

We're supposed to blindly trust that the government is right on this one. The same government thaat shot Sammy Weaver in the back. The same government thaat incinerated Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas. Our government has proved unworthy of our trust, danielost, and has proven conclusively that not only is it our RIGHT to oversee their actions, but our patriotic DUTY.

Sorry Gid...but don't you consider shooting, blowing up and outright killing of Americans and our soldiers too, to be a crime?

"Why" should we allow them these rights? Did they afford these rights to the American civilians they beheaded? They were caught in fact on a battlefield shooting at our soldiers in a country where most of those detained do not even reside.

This rationale makes us no better than them, drmiler.

Now, you seem to miss my point. It is possible that EVERY detainee in Gitmo performed these acts that you are describing. But IF THEY DID, we need to PROVE IT! Not detain these people on spurious allegations, not cloud the issue in rhetoric and emotional appeals, but provide a legal standard of proof in a court of law in an appropriate jurisdiction.

Why should we allow them these rights? Because we are Americans and because we hold the sanctity of human life and human rights dear. Because even if THEY do not, we DO believe that people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. The disgusting irony of the right is that they will demand rights for the baby in utero but deny them to adults who have been convicted of no crime (the disgusting irony of the left is the reverse).

Do you know who it was that taught me that Soviet gulags were deplorable, drmiler? It was the right. Do you know who it was that taught me that we were the greatest nation on earth because we treated people with respect even if they weren't born under the banner of Old Glory? It was the right. Do you know who it was that taught me that the system of capitalism where everyone has equal opportunity is superior to that of socialism where the masses suffer equally? Yep, you guessed it. The right. Now the right is demanding that torture, indefinite detention without trial or legal representation, and secrecy in a "free" society are noble traits. I'm sorry, I can't buy that bill of goods, and I won't.

Am I demanding these people be released? HEAVENS NO! Am I declaring them innocent? AGAIN, NO! All I am asking is that our government treat them with the dignity that represents our national greatness, that our government grant them due process and the right to call witnesses in their favor in a court of law, and that our government return those who are found to be innocent.

Every one of the Gitmo detainees may be guilty. What I am asking the government to do is PROVE IT! Anything less is blatantly un-American!

i didn't say any of them were guilty of war crimes

but we did declare war so they were participating in an act of war against us.

and most of the people in gizmo are not afghanistanies. they are people recruited by AL quid to become suicide bombers.

oh and by the way the taliban are not afghanistanies. they are from Pakistan