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Suggestion for a metaverse "league"

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Suggestion for a metaverse "league"

from GalCiv2 Forums
I've been giving some thought to the Metaverse scores, specifically with regard to empires.

A popular empire with hundreds of members can handily beat a small one with only a few players, regardless of how good those few players are. It becomes a popularity contest, essentially, with empires competing for number of recruits rather than good scores.

So I've been thinking of ways that competition could be made more meaningful. Namely, how about setting up a league system?

Here's how I envision this:

A) Assign an impartial league administrator
B) Create twelve "teams" -- essentially, empires -- each named after one of the twelve major races, maybe varied slightly for fun (The Drengin Dodgers, for example)
C) Admin assigns each participating player randomly onto one of the twelve teams, making sure that all teams have an equal number of players. The skill of those players will be irrelevant for the purpose of team placement.
D) Teams select one player to act as their team captain, who will be responsible for actually inviting players (since the league admin would not have the requisite access).

So, basically you'll have a sports league type setup where relatively equal teams compete against each other. You could have one-on-one weekly competitions between two empires, trade players between teams, major league baseball sized salaries... okay, maybe not that one.

We would need to have enough players interested in joining, such that the initial twelve teams are, say, about five or six players each, so at least 60 players would need to sign up right from the start.

Does this sound interesting to anyone? Any ideas on how to enhance this idea?

Please note that this would not require people to ditch their current empires. To play in this league, you would only need to provide one of your three characters (only one, though).

I'm leaving for a week after tomorrow, so might not be able to respond to this thread until I get back, but I'll leave it to all of you to hash it out, should there be sufficient interest. Thanks for reading.
metaverse
59,275 views 97 replies
Reply #76 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wow, a lot has transpired since Tuesday. I must admit that I haven't even been able to read it all yet. I pretty much go along with Neilo's suggestions. For my two cents I’d add the following.

To me the potential fun in this is in a large extent in participating in the game playing part and in staying out of the league administration part of it. To that extent I think that anyone that participates owes the single commissioner (Neilo) some slack for his willingness to take all of this on by himself. If everything is not exactly to your immediate liking then certainly feel free to voice your opinion about how things could be improved but at the same time give Neilo some time to work out the kinks.

As commissioner, Neilo will simply set the rules that he sees as best based on the input we’ve all given him, but his decision is final. Also Neilo can play as a normal player without anyone being concerned about potential misuse of power. I personally would prefer if Neilo would set up the teams himself in what he sees as a balanced way. Also he would be free to reassign the teams if perhaps one team was shown to be running away with it. The goal of the commissioner is to support a fair and balanced league. To accomplish this he is free to change any of the rules at any time. He could also change them and then decide to change them back.

People need to be a little tolerant and patient. If you overall like the concept of this league but some particular aspect bothers you then let everyone know about it but don’t storm off saying you won’t play anymore. Everyone here is reasonable and I’m sure we’ll all do everything possible to accommodate any reasonable request, it just might not be instantaneous.

The only other point I’d like to make is about characters. My main character is pretty much dedicated to my current empire and to gigantic galaxy abundant all military wins. So I will not be using that character for these smaller type games. I personally have two free characters, one of which I will dedicate to this purpose. By that I mean every game this character plays will be a league game and only this character will be used for league play. For the record I will use Toshiro Mifune for league play.

I do see the potential conflict of using multiple characters. Someone could play the same game on different characters and then decide which one to use based on results. However it’s really not much different to play the same settings twice with the same character and then decide which game to submit. Whatever the commissioner decides is fine by me, but I see no real issue in allowing folks to submit a league game under one character and then submit the next league game under a different character. I would suggest that we not have to post a screenshot of the game but merely post the character, date of submission, game years and score. From this anyone could check anyone else’s posting in the official Meta and in the AltMeta. I don’t think it’s necessary for the commissioner to have to chase down each and every submission. In any case there will be a substantial amount of the settings that cannot be verified and will have to be taken on trust. Let’s just all try to be worthy of that trust.

I think we’ll need a dedicated thread for people to post their league submissions. I think we also need a thread for folks to bitch and complain in. Finally we need a thread to post the results of the current month and the next months selected game. This looks to me that we’ll need three threads dedicated to this league. I’d call the bitching and moaning thread the “Metaverse League Help Desk”, I’d call the thread that people submit games to the “Metaverse League Submitted Games” and I’d call the final thread the “Metaverse League Commissioners Office”. Neilo should create each of these threads and simply request that they all be made sticky in the OP.

The “Metaverse League Help Desk” should be a free for all thread dedicated to any and all questions and comments about the league. Anyone can post any questions or issues to this thread and have other league members (or non members) chime in with their opinion as well as receive the commissioners decision about the question/issue. The “Metaverse League Submitted Games” should only be used by league members to report the character, submission date, game years and score of league games. The “Metaverse League Commissioners Office” thread should be read by everyone but pretty much unwritten except by the commissioner. Anyone else posting to this thread should be (gently) directed to one of the other threads by the commissioner. This thread should start out by posting the current league rules and any rule changes should be posted here as well (remember any complaints about rules should be posted in the help desk *not* the Commissioner’s thread). Also current league members, their team assignment and team captain (if necessary) should be posted here. This thread should also be used by the commissioner to report the results of the current round of league play and to announce the next type of game to be played. I think that the next game should be announced pretty much simultaneously with the start of play (but of course that’s a commissioner decision). I think all of these threads should be created here in the Metaverse forum. If there are issues or problems with holding these threads here we could always move them to the Core but let’s at least start out by having them here.

Does this seem like a decent plan?
Reply #77 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
League Tactic: Never Submit!
You spent a lot of time thinking about people who didn't submit any games. How about people submitting more than one game per month per character?
I assume that only the best game counts. It wouldn't surprise me if nobody posted a game for the first 28 or so days of our league, because obviously posting a game is a giveaway for the others - for example which time you have to beat to get the bonus point. So if you save your nearly ended game(s) and post it/them as late as possible, you make it more difficult for the other teams because they can't adjust their bonus point strategies.
This could be countered by handing out bonuses for the early bird - which punishes those of us whose real life interferes.
I suggest you should allow each player to post more than one game per month and decide at the end which of the submitted games you take - this will also lead to more competition in altmeta's civil rankings.


Having said this, I congatulate and thank Neilo for his rules. I'm looking forward to the league.
Please don't make it a pure DA legue though, I'm only DL.

I don't understand the empire bit of the debate - but I'm fine with whatever you do or say.


PS: How do I do those fancy quote boxes?

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #78 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Agreed, Mumblefratz. Let's proceed.
Reply #79 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm really not feeling the "No Super Abilities" rule though Nelio. The only way to make it fair is to either make everyone play DL (which I am against) or relax a bit. You can turn Super Abilities off, but what about Asteroids? The Korath clan?
They are different games and need to be treated as such - both should be allowed, but try not to clamp down on how people choose to play quite so much


This is also the biggest sticking-point for me right now. I love playing DA, and Super Abilities are a major part of that. I'd probably just prefer to play DA for individual metaverse games than to have to turn off the features for which I purchased the game in order to join a league. And let's not forget the issue of allowing CPU-intensive algorithms. I leave them on all the time, but I would have no problem at all with someone who decided to turn them off to improve his/her computer's performance. I just wouldn't want to be told to turn them on or off.

Good work so far, Neilo! And good feedback from everyone else. We'll never all agree on everything, so at some point we need to go with Neilo's decisions on this matter. He's clearly reading our ideas and cogitating upon them, so he's as good a dictator as I could hope for at this point.


Reply #80 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Are there any DL-only people who object to others using Super Abilities? I can't see why they would, really. They're not really an advantage, per se, just a difference. Same goes for mega-events.
Reply #81 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't object to DA things - I just have no idea what you are talking about, and I couldn't join games where DA stuff is mandatory.
Reply #82 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I believe I may be right in saying this, Thanks Neilo for the time and effort you have taken for this league to take effect. And also thanks to Ghostwes for the original idea. I will play DL for this league so as not to worry about any screwups.  
Reply #83 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't think Super abilities will be a problem, since if your playing with them on your enemies have them also.

If your awarding points for any kind of high scoring among submissions then that is the only place DA would have an advantage I believe. That being said though, the Commish could find a planet abundancy setting that could give near equal planets for both the chosen DL and DA games, since I believe the larger number of planets is the biggest scoring advantage DA has. Otherwise I believe both games are comparable.

"Let's get it on!" ~Mills Lane


Reply #84 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That being said though, the Commish could find a planet abundancy setting that could give near equal planets for both the chosen DL and DA games, since I believe the larger number of planets is the biggest scoring advantage DA has


This is/was a small concern for me especially on a medium map if the random planet choice was abundant then all DA games will have an advantage straight off the bat. So i had thought i might set a level of planets that was constant that is not going to favor DA.

To all those with concerns over DA vs DL, no one version will be supported over the other, both games will be used for the league. As to the issue of super abilities being off, this was simply a way to level the playing field against DL players, no, i didn't like it myself, the thought of playing DA without them was enough to make me cry.

So....i guess this question is just for the DL players out there. Do you have a problem with the DA players leaving super ability's on? I don't think it is a huge score multiplier at all and really only affects the other AI in that particular game.

A few points and rule amendments, i will gloss over these quickly,

#1 One character for league playing only per account. I will check this diligently. Only games from your designated league character will be permitted.

Something i'd like clarification on please guys, Should that character be a new character or is it fine for someone to use an existing one provided they only use it in the league from now on? Again something i will check often.

#2 Defeat/resignation = minus 1 point.
No game submitted = minus 2 points.

#3 Team selection, either to be completely random or assigned by me. Please clarify this one too guys. If i am to assign players i would need to firstly only put 3 players in each team and then ask for you guys to put me into either team 1, 2, 3, 4 etc...That way i have not put myself into one of the teams. Seems the fair way to go.

#4 The league will be a continuously running event, after the first couple of rounds though, just work out the kinks.

An interesting point was made, by buterfly i think, that many people will play multiple games and submit the best one. I don't see any way to do much about this, except trust players will knowing this is for fun submit games even if they are defeats. I am actually looking forward to seeing some defeats out there and the banter that they would create. The only way to change this would be to shorten the game time from 1 month to ....whatever time...though i feel this is not popular. Thoughts?

Mumble i agree with your post and will create those threads indeed when we get a consensus here.

As for empire involvement i think the issue should be put to rest and i propose this.
The only empire involvement would only be if every character playing in the league was not already in an empire. Then we could create an empire called the "The Metaverse League" with the commish being emperor and team captains senators. All players would join this empire.

Anything except that should not be considered.

Not sure if i missed something, please reiterate any points that need addressing please.

Thanks for support and patience guys , again if there is a point that still needs working out please post about it and we can get a move on.

P.S. If you are reading MarshallONeil, could i impose upon you if you have the time to perhaps create a "The Metaverse League" banner similar to your HCH, Tyranny and Gerontocracy efforts. Advertisement will do us a world of good i believe...thanks mate.






Reply #85 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If your awarding points for any kind of high scoring among submissions then that


That=Planets. I missed that error and it made it sound like I was talking about the Super abilities. I just couldn't let it go uncorrected   

So....i guess this question is just for the DL players out there. Do you have a problem with the DA players leaving super ability's on?


I have both, but have actually played DA sparingly and will be more comfortable using DL. If I can enter as a DL player, I have no problem with the supers as I said. This does lead me to one question. Is it possible for owners of both to change to either or from round to round? I'm guessing it wouldn't be a problem for everyone just to submit whichever they choose to tackle out of the available choices.

Something i'd like clarification on please guys, Should that character be a new character or is it fine for someone to use an existing one provided they only use it in the league from now on?


As someone with free characters, whichever way the people that this effects vote is fine with me.

#3 Team selection, either to be completely random or assigned by me. Please clarify this one too guys.


I wouldn't mind hearing how to make it completely random, the method. If this can be done it would probably be the best way, but I'm not sure how you thinking of randomizing it. I know I mentioned being in agreeance with it earlier, but didn't actually think of a way to implement it and haven't heard another   .

An interesting point was made, by buterfly i think, that many people will play multiple games and submit the best one


That's pretty much out of anyone's hands but the poster. If people feel the need to spend all that extra time playing multiple games to only submit one(and losing the others as not to be found out) them maybe they need the points that bad, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it   .

Reply #86 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
create a "The Metaverse League" banner


I'd be happy to put something together. Something along the lines of the Olympic sport pictograms might be nice for a start, but I'm drawing a blank. If anyone has ideas for symbolism to embody the spirit of this enterprise, please post them here. How about a color scheme?

Also worth noting, Kryo did a fantastic job with the AltMeta banners; if you're reading, Kryo, please chime in and help us out!


Reply #87 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I wouldn't mind hearing how to make it completely random, the method. If this can be done it would probably be the best way, but I'm not sure how you thinking of randomizing it.


Well, my technical way of randomly doing the teams was to write all names down on scraps of paper, put them in a hat and have my 5 yr old pull them out one at a time....

This only works of course if you guys trust that i am indeed using that method, as for a secure online style system that is there for all to see that the selection was done fairly....i too don't know of anything.

This does lead me to one question. Is it possible for owners of both to change to either or from round to round?


Personally, i'd like to see players stick with the version they use for the first league game played. That being said if everyone wants to change it from game to game i don't have a problem with that either.

If anyone has ideas for symbolism to embody the spirit of this enterprise, please post them here. How about a color scheme?


Hmmm not sure of the extent of what is possible and not too time consuming but here goes. How about the heads of all the races divided into two groups in a face off style pose layered on top of a galaxy map of some sort, be it from the game or our solar system perhaps??????

Also worth noting, Kryo did a fantastic job with the AltMeta banners; if you're reading, Kryo, please chime in and help us out!


Indeed. Actually i'd really like to hear Kryo's thoughts on the league in general and any suggestions that he may have.
Reply #88 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As for DA specials, I was just asking because it sounded so scary. Kind of like: You can play in a league with the others but be aware that they all have super abilities (whatever that is). On the other hand, I'll just have to take you on with your super abilities - I'll manage (you learn that on TV - normal guys usually win against people with super abilities - especially good people like me against EVIL people like you).   Plus, I seem to be the only one who is using the old version.

Just don't make DA specials a MUST.


Reply #89 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Just don't make DA specials a MUST.


No. Super abilities will never be requested to be on. They will, unless opinion changes here, a option for the player to choose to play with or not.

I don't think that the SA will make a difference in scoring at all. Though someone with a better understanding of the game mechanics will know for sure. Players like Iztoc and Wyndstar come to mind if you get the chance to ask them....

Reply #90 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@neilo, see the tail end of my reply #76 about creating threads to support the league. They are only a suggestion but I think a reasonable set of threads that will help the league get business done and organized.

At this point I think enough people have given their opinions about pretty much everything. I think it's time for you to take your best stab at setting the rules and going from there. As I've mentioned you can always adjust things later if they seem to be unbalanced.
Reply #91 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Scraping the bottom of the creativity barrel today, I came up with a banner concept that doesn't really look like the empire banners at all except in size. I thought trying to include all of the aliens would be too busy, and including some would leave out others, so I went for a cleaner look instead. And, too, there's only so much you can do with 35 pixels...

Reply #93 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nice Marshall.   
Reply #95 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Forget anything i said that looks great

Well Done!!
Reply #96 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi all. In the next 24 hrs 4 threads will be up on the forum regarding the league. I am taking everyones opinion and trying to come up with something we all like. If you don't like it, please don't just dismiss the league, it is a work in progress and we can make changes at any time to make every player as happy as we can.

It seems based on posts in this we might have enough of 4 teams of 4, over the next day or so i'd like some suggestions for team names or if you guys want to name the team your in yourself, that's also fine.

I'd also like, that if we can nominate someone to act as junior commissioner or something. Just someone who can take care of buisness in the event i happen to be awol for a couple of days. I don't intend to be, but i thought it might be prudent. It doesnt need be a MV Councilor, as long as they will be around i guess.

I will post back in here once the threads are up.



Reply #97 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ok guys. The threads are up for the league so we are officially on. Now there was a couple of issues that many of us were split on. I'm sorry if i did not go with anyone's particular choice but remember it would be impossible to please everyone, there is always a need for compromise and also that we can make changes as we go. If a certain way i have picked to play is not working or is unpopular then please voice that opinion in the Help Desk thread and we will change it.

I hope you all enjoy the league and i thank you all for your participation in the forming of the league for your patience and your faith in me to run it. In particular i'd like to again thank Ghostwes for firstly the concept and then for allowing the MVC to take over and run the league.

Have fun guys and i'll yous in the league threads..
Commissioner Neilo.

"The Metaverse League"
Player Sign up & Roster
Results & League Ladder
Help Desk