This man is an idiot. » Forum Post by SanChonino

this is what will happen if this bill ever becomes law.

the pharmaceutical companies will start paying women to get pregnet so they can abort the baby to use for research purposes that is what the president is talking about. besides he isn't saying the research can't be done he is saying not on the publics dime

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SC:

This man is an idiot. or; so I feel.

Apparently I'm an idiot too, because I have got ethical qualms about embryonic stem cell research too.

These stem cells are going to be flushed down the toilet. Put them to good use.

So in for a penny, in for a pound? Since we're creating these embryos we may as well use them, even if it's not for human life? All I can do is shake my head and wonder what happened to the sanctity of life.

Danielost:

the pharmaceutical companies will start paying women to get pregnet so they can abort the baby to use for research purposes

Umm... eww. And, no. I don't think anyone's warning against that. Sounds like you've been watching too many of them sci-fi movies.

he isn't saying the research can't be done he is saying not on the publics dime

Yes. In fact, research is best done on the public dime.

Adult stem cell research is bearing huge fruit and fetal stem cells are causing major problems in recipients. To solve the fetal stem cell problem, feel free to throw some money at it. But please don't let it be MY money.

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I agree with his ban on funding but not his reasoning. He should ban the funding because the US Government isn't supposed to be a giant piggy bank for every cause, not because of the ethics of it. BUT he should do so while cutting a whole host of other programs as well.

I would agree stem cell research is equally deserving of federal funding as many other government projects. But in this case, when I say "equally deserving", I mean "not at all deserving".

Daniel,

I'm more afraid of them paying women to produce fetuses to make Soylent Green than I am of them paying women to produce fetuses for stem cell research. But in this case, when I say "more afraid", I mean "not at all afraid".

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President Bush, you're tacky and I hate you

hahahahaha school of rock! The gay kid, he's one of my favourite characters. Do I win a prize?

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Oh and I support stem cell research just like I'm pro-choice (not pro-death as some of my friends would call it....I think they were joking....maybe). However, I am not pro government-spend-all-my-money either. I agree with Gid, cut fundings, but not becase it's unethical. Do it because we're like, 50 trillion dollars in debt.

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I agree with his ban on funding but not his reasoning. He should ban the funding because the US Government isn't supposed to be a giant piggy bank for every cause, not because of the ethics of it. BUT he should do so while cutting a whole host of other programs as well.

Gid, I disagree with you on this part. I think it's important to have funding for research that is independent of any kind of company or industry. It's a great thing to experiment with an end purpose in mind, but it's also good to research and experiment for the sake of increasing knowledge. I believe that some ideas need to be pursued regardless of the question of, "Gee, that's interesting, but how is it going to make money and how long will it take to pay off?" I think that countries that provide for this kind of research have an edge in terms of technological advances.

Having said this, I need to say that I'm not American so I don't have any vested interest in where the US government spends it's money. I would agree, though, that governments tend to be bloated with unnecessary programs and that not every single idea should be given funding.

I know that I'm pretty idealistic in this regard.

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I agree with not using our money when those who can profit from the findings have more than enough to fund it themselves. Especially when they are not being stopped by laws. Bush has not made it illegal to use the embryos, only not to use Gov't funding to do so.

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These stem cells are going to be flushed down the toilet. Put them to good use.

That's basically what the Nazis said about using Jews for medical experiments too (and it was just as true). Do you or have you supported that research?

For a person that believes life begins at conception, it is the same thing.

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My answer? Because I said so, dammit.

I'm sorry did someone say something? I thought I heard a small sound, guess it was just my imagination.

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we want to throw money at the stem cell research for research purposes.

but we also want to cut funding to nasa which does nothing but research and we all benefit from nasas research in one way or another.

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A few people have thrown around the phrase "sanctity of life". I guess it all depends on where, exactly, you believe that "life" begins.

Is it at conception (as Guy and singrdave must believe)?

Is it when the cells start to differentiate (as most those who believe in the use of stem-cells but consider themselves pro-life believe)?

Is it when junior pops out and starts his screaming?

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President Bush, you're tacky and I hate you

hahahahaha school of rock! The gay kid, he's one of my favourite characters. Do I win a prize?

Yay! You win the "SanChonino's favorite blogger" prize! Your commemorative t-shirt is in the mail.

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Not deliberately at least.

for a moment I was about to correct that.

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The federal government already funds stem cell research SC, and there is no ban on private companies doing all the stem cell research on embryos they want. The only ban there is on a federal level is funding experimenting with embryo stem cells.

Plus since you are all hot to trot about this, name me a cure stem cell have made.
name me anything stem cells have done to advance medicine. NOT something that MIGHT advance, something concrete.

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Once again, President Bush has vetoed a bill regarding funding for stem cell research, calling the research "unethical".

I've gotten into this before on this site, and I still don't understand President Bush's position. These stem cells are going to be flushed down the toilet. Put them to good use.

I already know the reaction I'm going to get from the majority of the people on this site - "why should federal funding go to any research, regardless of how it's funded?"

My answer? Because I said so, dammit.

President Bush, you're tacky and I hate you. (Name the movie reference.)

I would like for you to do me a favor. Name just ONE advance in medicine that embryonic stem cell research has produced. Now I can give you the answer in one word, "NONE"! On the the other hand adult stem cell research has produced about 75 such advances. BTW...you are not required to understand or even agree with Bush's position on the subject.

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Yay! You win the "SanChonino's favorite blogger" prize! Your commemorative t-shirt is in the mail

sweet action I am excited.

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The majority of Americans support embryonic stem cell research. Bush vetoed this same legislation last year. 37 house Republicans did vote for thes bill so this not strictly on party lines. The senate is close to having enough votes to overide the veto but I don't think the house does.

There are 500,000 pre-embryos frozen in this country and more being added to that number every year. I agree that instead of destroying them, let them be used for research. The bill requires that the stem cells come from embryos that would be discarded so the idea of women being paid to abort children for research is bogus. There may not have been substantive advances from this research YET. They have been working with a very limited number of already existing stem cell lines. There is so much potential that they might find cures for Juvenile Diabetes, Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

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LocamamaJune 21, 2007 14:13:43

There is so much potential that they might find cures for Juvenile Diabetes, Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

yep and too much masturbating might grow hair on your palms, or make you go blind.

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There are 500,000 pre-embryos frozen in this country and more being added to that number every year. I agree that instead of destroying them, let them be used for research. The bill requires that the stem cells come from embryos that would be discarded so the idea of women being paid to abort children for research is bogus. There may not have been substantive advances from this research YET. They have been working with a very limited number of already existing stem cell lines. There is so much potential that they might find cures for Juvenile Diabetes, Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

But you failed to mention that the research is not illegal, that these "500,000 pre-embryos frozen in this country and more being added to that number every year" don't have to go to waste. They simply need to find someone else to pay for it. I really wish people would stop trying to portray this as Bush trying to stop the use of these "500,000 pre-embryos frozen in this country and more being added to that number every year" when that is not what he is doing, he is simply refusing to federaly fund it.

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yep and too much masturbating might grow hair on your palms, or make you go blind.

Do you know this from experience? lol/jk

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I really wish people would stop trying to portray this as Bush trying to stop the use of these "500,000 pre-embryos frozen in this country and more being added to that number every year" when that is not what he is doing, he is simply refusing to federaly fund it.

But you do have to admit, if he could stop it entirely, he would. Otherwise he wouldn't label it "unethical" and "wrong". People portray him that way because of what he's said, and his blanket pronouncements of the "sin" of stem-cell research make him an easy target.

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But you do have to admit, if he could stop it entirely, he would. Otherwise he wouldn't label it "unethical" and "wrong".

Yes, he would. But you can't try and convict someone on their intent.

Truthfully, I feel this falls in an ethical grey area. Were this the 1940's, would we be using stem cells from Holocaust victims because they would be wasted anyway? Hard to say whether the ends justify the means here, especially when we are speaking of "potential", rather than REALIZED successes.

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Otherwise he wouldn't label it "unethical" and "wrong".

For those who believe, that is what it is. But perhaps we have become so accustomed to getting our wants when we want them, that we now have to vilify people for having ethics and morals that we do not necessarily agree with. Therefore, only the unethical and immoral can be seen to be pure of heart.

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But perhaps we have become so accustomed to getting our wants when we want them, that we now have to vilify people for having ethics and morals that we do not necessarily agree with. Therefore, only the unethical and immoral can be seen to be pure of heart.

You're doing the exact same thing you're (in blanket terms) accusing me of in each post you've made here - first, that I'm not a believer, and that you believe that you're moral and ethical and someone with a different set of morals and ethics is inherently immoral and unethical. And I resent you for making such blanket statements.

Don't vilify those who don't agree with you, as you have here, if you're going to demand that others not do the same.

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This is why I consider it a grey area, dr. Because there are so many unanswered questions. Lemme give you a for instance: if our 4 month old baby was dying and we knew we could get an organ transplant from an aborted fetus to save his life, I wouldn't flinch. Not for one second. And I wouldn't feel guilty about it either. And those are the kinds of questions many proponents are asking.

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