New addon for CIV IV - copying GalCIV 2?

Considering how differently the two games play I don't think it could be considered copying, particularly when Stardock has already said they discussed features with the CIV4 team for Gal Civ 2.

It wasn't really meant in a negative way. After all, these new features are the reason why i am finally considering buying CIV IV. Still, we had 2 kings (CIV and GalCiv) for 2 specific genres in the TBS world (history / science-fiction), if we don't count AC which was land-based. And now, we've got the most powerful king who's trying with a new genre (space conquest). Will they stop there? What are the risks for GalCiv 3?

It's just a scenario; the main Civ4 game is still its own beast. If anything, I imagine it's supposed to show off how moddable Civ4 is, since a relatively empty space map is quite different from the terrained tiles of standard Civ4; with all the game balance issues they entail.

I wouldn't be surprised if the GalCivs turn out to be a notable influence, since they're one of the few acclaimed space TBSes in recent memory, but I imagine it'll be a far cry from copying. I wouldn't apply that word unless we start hearing about a ship builder in Civ4. Nor would I worry about the two driving each other out of competition. While I'm sure there's some competition between them, especially with something as potentially time consuming as strategy games, I doubt something minor like a space scenario in Civ4 is about to tip them into an actual struggle for survival. Case in point: Both Civ4 and GalCiv2 were successful enough for their developers to invest in expansions.

Myself, I've bought both Civ4 and GalCiv2. And Dark Avatar. And Beyond the Sword is on my To Buy list.

I noitced screenshots from that scenario and GC2 was my first thought, lol. I don't think it will affect sales. I mean, they released a MOO scenario for Civ 2, and then MOO3 came out... and... oh, bum.

I definitely thought that the scenario for Civ IV looked similar to GalCiv, but, as you folks say, it's a space-based TBS, there's got to be some commonality. I imagine the gameplay will be quite different. For one thing, I don't think the Civ IV "Final Frontier" mod/scenario is going to allow you to design your own ships, and that's one of my favorite parts of GalCiv 2.

I am really excited about the Beyond the Sword expansion for Civ IV, though. Looking at the feature list, I can't help but think the Firaxis team was inspired by Dark Avatar, (a) to make an expansion that really changed/improved core gameplay rather than just adding a few units and civs and (b) specifically with the espionage system. In fact, the Beyond the Sword Espionage looks like it's a combined version of how espionage worked in DL with how it works in DA - you have a slider for espionage (in addition to research and culture) and the more money you commit, the more you learn about your rivals. At certain levels you get a "spy" who can perform missions. The missions seem to be more varied than those offered in DA.

Civ4 and GC2 each influenced the other. This is why those two games are both good.

Could you please post a link as I can't find a screenshot anywhere?

It's a scenario/mod and, based on past experience with Civ mods that tried to massively alter the underlying game to fit another genre, it won't be very good.

Hmm. Even one scenario, though... it will get modders interested. They will start making more space mods, maybe. But I agree that it won't be as good as a game that is a space strategy game (ahem, this one).

But I am looking forward to Beyond the Sword and Final Frontier. As a player of both games (Civ and GalCiv) I really don't care whether one copies the other. Those who play both will probably look at it that way. But those who play one or the other won't.

If anything the new Final Frontier mod is just to show that CIV4 is now highly skinnable.
I haven't found it particularly comparable to GC2 though. GC2 is highly different than CIV4.

Did SD collaborate with Firaxis in anyway to make BTS? It's obvious GC2 influenced some of the redesign of Civ4 in the expansion, but I wouldn't say they really infringed other than in a 'copy cat copy cat you're fat' kind of way.

I doubt it.

Just like GC wasn't some copy paste of the Civ concept.

Although I will say this to SD. Space terrain! See! It can be interesting and provide strategy to the player!

It just shows how moddable Civ is, which means, I feel, that we can ourselves truly create what the best is. (I'm already liking aspects in the mod which I always wished GC would eventually do, and there are still some aspects I'm confident can be modded in from what GC has!)

Yeah, maybe Stardock should add nebulas, black holes, radiation clouds, and a bunch of other stuff. Besides black holes that explode after you go through them, that is.

There's definitely been quite a few lessons taught to GalCiv's biggest competition.

As long as they pick their apples from the tallest tree.

Then all that GalCiv's developers can do is just sit back content, thinking, Job well done guys.

Neil.

P.S. we got spies here. looking at all the feedback,

Doesn't it make you guys proud, that the "great Sid" will pinch your thoughts. lol

I can tell you that Final Frontier was definitely not made as a GalCiv clone. My primary inspiration in designing it was to create a space mod for Civ IV, drawing upon many of the gameplay mechanics already part of Civ IV. I would very much doubt that the mod will have any impact on future GalCiv sales though.

Jon

They may both be TBS, but they are poles apart in approach, and with 6.7Billion on the Planet there is more than enough market space to go round. As far as I am concerned the more they talk to each other (if they do) the better. The last thing we need is TBS dominated by one Developer, stiffles innovation.

Personally I'd be very happy to discover cut throat fighting going on - if that is indeed happening - because the one certain winner out of that is the player. Particularly if you have both games as many of us do.

Final Frontier and GalCiv aren't at all similar. I think the turn limit in the demo did a good job hiding how well.. limited the mod really is. Five types of ships, a couple more if you count fighters and bombers. Each ship has about four or five upgrades. I like that they made new perks for ships that gained XP, although they pretty much amounted to the same thing the regular game's perks did.

I didn't feel the mod had any longevity is my problem with it. I didn't even bother finishing it the one time I tried it out since buying the expansion. It seems to me that it will basically play out the same every time I try it out because it doesn't have different eras like Civ IV. There's no great transition in how to use units, a Delta Destroyer is better than an Alpha Destroyer (early unit), but they operate the same.

Each city being a solar system and each planet acquiring a different assortment of buildings is sorta neat, but it felt loose to me and hard to manage. It is just complex enough that it may allow for some deep strategy if I take the time to really learn the ins and outs, and I do like that.

I did like how fighters and bombers are made useful, but vulnerable. There's some cheap units (destroyers) that are pretty decent at intercepting them, but fighters and bombers can actually destroy ships in Final Frontier which makes it worthwhile to use them.

I really wish they'd done the same in the Pacific War mod that comes with BTS.. yeah, aircraft can't sink ships in the Pacific war, the CARRIER war, the AIR war. UGH.

Of course, I do have to compliment them on using easily accessable scripting for all unit stats and capabilities and whatnot. After some trial and error I was able to make a mod that upped all units' air-interception ability, and allowed air units to either heavily deplete or kill all sorts of units. So it's not so bad.

I also have to give kudos for the AI.. I'm not totally sure if it was Warlords or BTS, but even just on a low level of difficulty it's ruthless. Doesn't matter how much they like you anymore, if they believe they can get away with invading and taking a city or two on the first or second turn of declaring war.. they will. Sure it can be irritating not knowing who'll stab you in the back, but it's EXACTLY how I play. If I think I can get a leg up by attacking my best AI friend then I will, so how can I fault them?