Sunny days and game development

Just random ramblings

from JoeUser Forums

So beta 4 of the upcoming new version (v1.6) of Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar has resulted in massively improved performance for most users. Yay.  I can't really explain why we decided to go and do it other than the fact that we have learned so much new stuff in the past several months working on the unnamed fantasy strategy game that we wanted to incorporate some of the techniques into Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar.

On the downside, a small % of users have found no speed increase and a few have had weird graphics glitches. Which is a bummer.  Down the line we hope to resolve it but since we need to get this show on the road, we're going to have to put in an option to let people choose between the existing engine and the new Enhanced Graphics Engine.  On my somewhat wimpier home machine, when I'm playing in a large galaxy with lots of ships I was getting around 20 frames per second when enough ships were on the screen. Now, I get 60 (it's capped at 60) on the same screen. 

A couple people have emailed asking what Stardock's building looks like. Here's where we work:

The game team is on the top floor.  The web team is on the main floor.  The bottom floor is empty right now as we prepare for expanion in the next year or two (we're always hiring).


On the West side of the property we're located on

When I was a kid I lived next to a wetland and always thought it was a great place to grow up by.  As the company grew and became more successful, I saved up and bought this property with a wetland and fields for the company. I just like critters (My main handle is "Frogboy" after all <g>).

Controversies

One controversy in the forums has to do with a "bug" in how turns are handled.  Right now, turns go like this (where 0 is the AI and 1 is the human player):

0101010101010

So when I load a game, the AI plans his moves, then turns it over to the human player. The human player then takes his or her turn and then the AI takes their turn and so on.

But you may understand the issue: If I save a game where the AI has already taken their turn, load up the game and the AI gets to take another turn, you've got a slight disavantage for the human.  I use the word slight here.  The AI doesn't get to actually move ships or get additional production. What they do get is the ability to pick planetary social and military projects. It's a slight advantage but an advantage nevertheless. Of course, compared to the fact that human players get to save and restore games, I'd say humans still end up with the better deal. How many times has someone loaded a saved game because they got a random event they didn't like or an engagement went poorly? The AI doesn't get to do it.

But still, it's a bug and it's in the database now.  It's actually been this way since the original beta of GalCiv 1 back in 2002. That's one of the reasons why nobody wants to touch it. It's ancient code. 

Getting 1.6 done and moving to 1.7

There's been a lot of very good tweaks and changes in 1.6 that I think will make the game even more fun.  For 1.7, there's a number of new features that we're looking to add. I want to tackle some of the constructor management and starbase handling.

Cranky people and private companies

One thing that I've noticed recently is that as our games get more popular, we get a higher incidence of cranky people.  I sometimes think it's one guy who has many different names and goes on all forums because they seem to have the same background.

Cranky person post goes like this:

  • Game is buggy
  • Product should never have been released
  • I have been a programmer/IT manager/developer for 20 years (and it's always 20 years -- not 5, not 10, not 25, but 20)
  • Vague description of problem and little to no information on system.
  • Expect prompt and courteous support

Now, a few things about that.  Stardock isn't a store.  If someone wants to be cranky to someone, they should probably go to the store and yell about it there.  I'm not a clerk.  I make games because I enjoy it. I enjoy hanging out with people like you guys.  It's fun. It's rewarding. 

But someone buying our game doesn't give them the right to be rude and nasty and condescending. It's an equal proposition -- someone wants a product or service and is willing to exchange money for it.  No one has leverage over the others. It's an equal trade.  Someone insulting me personally or being obnoxious on the forum is not going to be put up with. I have no incentive to put up with it.  We'll absolutely jump through hoops and bend over backwards to help people. But we don't expect to be treated with utter disrepect or have our work insulted. It's one of the reasons why so many game companies don't have forums, they don't want to put up with nasty users.

Luckily, our forums are full of helpful gamers who are really part of our team. We are all in it together making cool stuff.  We put out extra updates because we like to. Privately held companies can do that -- do things simply because they want to.  And we like doing it because we like interacting with the players as much as we can.  It's something I hope we can expand on.

But any users who thinks that they have the right to insult us should think twice.  We don't want those people playing our games and I'd prefer they never bought anything from us ever again. I hope that doesn't sound elitist. But I just don't want to deal with people who think it's okay to be nasty to other people simply because they bought a product.

Future Community Features

I suspect that down the line that we'll make a system in which only active people in the community can participate in post-release betas.  Right now, some people download these betas and I guess I don't know what they're expecting but apparently they expect them to be the same as releases.  Beta 4 of 1.6 introduces a new graphics engine for instance.  I'd like to see people thorugh their stardock.net account be able to go to a page to get private beta builds. It probably won't happen for GalCiv II but maybe for Sins and definitely for the fantasy strategy game.

53,665 views 37 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nice digs   . The cranky person post example was funny and accurate.

Definately keeping betas within a more controlled group that understands the process should create less headaches and provide more informative feedback.

btw: Thanks for reminding me to check on how Sins is coming along. I was lukewarm to it at first but after seeing a gameplay video it really has caught my interest.

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
An interesting peek behind the curtain. Does anyone else see a striking similarity between Stardock's building and the Restaurant of Eternity??

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i'm surprised you haven't moved to a fully fledged subscriber system where only TG subscribers can be beta testers as part of the value-add (here in the performing arts, a niche market if ever there was one, we tend to get, depending on the market, 30-50% of our annual $ sales up front via an annually renewed subcription service) - i'm still waiting for my 'offer of renewal' from stardock, filled with benefits and value-adds, for my recently expired subscription
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I am your biggest fan Frogboy. I don't know if anyone else has requested this, but can I get a autographed picture of your building? Just wondering. Since I live not far from you I will probably come down and visit to see if I can help with anything. I have skills when it comes down to computers. Ok brotherton stay cool.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
When I was a kid I lived next to a wetland and always thought it was a great place to grow up by. As the company grew and became more successful, I saved up and bought this property with a wetland and fields for the company. I just like critters (My main handle is "Frogboy" after all

Kind of reminds me of a building around the corner where I live in Concord, MA. Don't get me wrong, I like wetlands and nature as well as anyone else but in Massachusetts they get pretty nutty about the topic.

In Massachusetts (perhaps other places as well) a wetlands is defined by the type of vegetation that’s present. That means if you have some skunk cabbage or ferns in your backyard then that’s a wetlands. This can have serious consequences. For example we have this thing called Title 5 that specifies the criteria governing septic systems. This is nothing to joke about because people can easily be forced to spend 30 to 40 thousand dollars or more just to satisfy one of these Title 5 criteria. One example is that no part of a septic system is allowed to be within 100 feet of a defined wetlands (i.e. skunk cabbage) but *is* allowed to be within 50 feet of your own or neighbors well. Go figure that one out.

However this is no impediment to large companies with lawyer’s and friends on the conservation commission. If there is a legitimate wetlands bird sanctuary that’s in the way of a new parking lot then no problem, all they have to do is to ensure that the net total wetlands area remains the same. They can simply fill in and pave over the natural, wildlife filled wetlands as long as they dig a hole somewhere else on the property and fill it with water. Actually it doesn’t even have to be on the property, they are allowed to “average” over someone else’s adjacent property as well. The water doesn’t even have to flow or anything, the fact that all you have is a sterile hole in the ground devoid of all life is meaningless. The net total area of wetlands remains the same and the law is satisfied.

Not quite sure what this rambling story has to do with much of anything other than the total stupidity of otherwise well meaning folks. I could write a thesis on the stupidity and overall lack of understanding that’s encompassed in Title 5. To top it all off the state (actually commonwealth) gives the responsibility of determining compliance with Title 5 to your local septic service man, the person that has the most to gain by seeing your property fail the test. But there are even worse things than Title 5. There’s the Rivers and Waterways Act, but if you really want to ruin someone’s life the best way is to get his backyard declared a “vernal pool”. Don’t even get me started on vernal pools.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A lot of programmers and the like get upset with posts like that. Not realising, as you have put it, that as the game becomes more popular more cranky people will turn up.

It's always the angry people that are the loudest, don't ever take it personally as it can be quite nasty.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think you've got the right perspective on "cranky" folks, Brad. The simple fact of the matter is that Stardock's record of support for its products pretty much speaks for itself. It's awfully hard to see the vague bitching as anything other than unfounded as a result. Even if that some day changed, the kind of post you describe is utterly useless. If one can't get the support and assistance one needs, or if one feels a product is "unfinished and never should have been released" it seems to me the right answer (after making a reasonable good faith effort to get help, of course) is not to buy any future products from that developer/publisher. Voting with your wallet is pretty much always the best means to getting your way, after all. That's part of the reason I'll keep buying most any product you put out (well, any product with a worthwhile single player component anyway) as long as your quality standard remains so high.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nice looking home-away-from-home (particularly when you consider the hours all of you spend there   )

Empty basement - hmmmmmm - *gazes into crystal ball* I see a dungeon relating to an un-named fantasy game.... inhabited by wild-eyed "cranky" creatures armed with 20 years of IT experience..... being beaten into submission by a valiant.. *tap* - *tap* - *tap* sorry, the color must be going... GREEN? hero...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Right now, some people download these betas and I guess I don't know what they're expecting but apparently they expect them to be the same as releases.


Hmm, I agree. There are many people that download the betas and then complain about the bugs. It should be a little more difficult to get those betas, and the warning more prominent. As it is now, you just click "Show pre-release" and you kinda skip the warning as it's too long. A sort red sign should go up like, "WARNING! May make your game unplayable!" Or maybe a different tab should show which should have the betas and the changes and bugs introduced and then more warnings there. People sometimes just like to download stuff, I know I do it!

Does anyone else see a striking similarity between Stardock's building and the Restaurant of Eternity??


Yes, indeed, or even the Research Academy?

Anyway, keep up the good work and know that there are always going to be people who appreciate your work and that people who are happy don't usually talk too much, only those who are angry make a racket. "Well done"s are difficult to come by.

I think that even taking the time to talk to us, make journal posts and answer to us at the forums is steps ahead of other developers who usually forget about their userbase after they get some money. Let me not talk about the updates which we learned to expect! Who else does that!

The end point is that we feel all warm inside when you treat us like human beings and not cash machines. Any bugs that come up or anything we can iron out with a little bit of cooperation instead of shouting like mad!

(I rumbled on for a bit, but why not! )
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
FOR INSTANCE: Look at all of the trouble you went through to make the game playable for low-end video cards. To those of us who went out and bought a faster video card just for your game (Including myself) it might not seem like a big deal that you just paid your programmers a decent sized paycheck just to make this game run faster for people with a Nvidia 4 Mx 64-bit videocard, but it is considering most companies use a collateral damage worksheet to decide if it is a profit efficient tactic. I know it seems strange to compare a video game company to a resturant, but lets do that for a second. Ok here's a Big Boy's that wants to save as much money as possible. So they get a huge amount of business on a saturday afternoon right, and they realize that half of their food is bad. So instead of throwing out the half of food that is bad they serve it, and save the food that is good until it goes bad. They don't value workers more then a paycheck, and therefore they don't have any loyal workers. They don't value customers, and therefore they don't get loyal clientelle. (Sidenote(You should know this place Brad Wardell you work close to it. If you don't know the place go eat here on a saturday morning.): In Walled Lake Michigan right off of Pontiac Trail and Maple Road there is a Big Boy's. This Big Boy's is in a small town, and get's more business then the downtown Detroit and Royal Oak Resturants. They fill up more then the Detroit Electronic Music Festival on memorial day weekend. The thing about the place that is special is it's in a small town. Which means effectively tat all of their business is from regulars. I use to work there so I know this as fact. All of their business is loyal regulars. You should go there for lunch on a saturday, and think about that Brad. It seems like you have the same thing going for you. Your loyalty towards workers has caused a fervous amount of loyalty towards your company. To get loyalty you must give loyalty, and you can see what a tree it's fruit and whether it tastes good or it's edible.)

Good work.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
But you may understand the issue: If I save a game where the AI has already taken their turn, load up the game and the AI gets to take another turn, you've got a slight disavantage for the human.


Does everybody realize how small a deal this is compared to the way it used to be when you would lose an entire turn of production every time you reloaded? And that was ancient code from GalCiv I too, but you fixed it. Thanks so much. I just got a new video card, so I redownloaded GalCiv II to see how pretty the ships are, and I am really, really loving how I can just save a game, attack the Torians to see what my ships look like in combat, and then reload without having that big nasty spike in my production that week.

I am surprised you would take on the potential hassle of letting bureaucrats have a say in what you can or can't do to your property because of the wetlands. They are pretty though. I would definitely go out for a walk there on my lunch break instead of sitting inside.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The bottom floor is empty right now as we prepare for expanion in the next year or two (we're always hiring).


Where do I send in my resume? I've got a bit of programming experience, and I love playing the game!

Only problem is, I live in Colorado, so I'd have to move to a new place to live .
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Great writeup Brad. I definately agree with what you have said. No-one has the right to abuse anyone for any reason. If a person is angry and there's nothing wrong with being angry, just communicate we learnt about that in grade 3 with sesame street. You know communication and cooperation!!!

All these angry people have to do, is talk reasonably and the people they are talking to should respond in the like manner. Secondly a Beta is a Beta, by definition it is most likely going to have bugs in it. If the people downloading Betas don't want to deal with these problems stick to the finished releases. Or as stated earlier have a core list of us gamers who sign some sort of an agreement which indicates that they understand they are getting a beta and they they are willing to test it for the betterment of Stardock and those that cherish the game.

Oh!! And by the way, I want to be part of the beta testing team if you make one (PLEASE).   
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah!
I cherish my game.
And please make me part of that beta testing team too.

BTW, nice place you got there. Got any more photos(of the inside maybe)?
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You guys are by far the best game devs I have ever come upon. I fully support yall and will continue to do so. Companies like UBIsoft and EA just can't touch the quality of what we have here.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Flame wars and nasty visitors can sour the milk. I recall this happening to the developer forums for one of my favorite games, SMAC. The environment got so caustic that the devs simply abandoned it and it eventually sank under its own weight.

That said, the vast majority of folks here are polite and helpful, and the forums are well monitored. It is unfortunate that cranky folks can be so oblivious to common decorum. The only cause I can think of is they have an easily triggered Big Red Button. Or, sadly, they lash out just because you and your team are approachable – no small amount of irony there, as you already know.

All I can say is that the efforts of you and your team are appreciated.

Hydro
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I like this game a lot. I also like these forums very much. Thanks for all your hard work. It makes the game more enjoyable for me.

Nice facility, where is it?
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I have been a programmer/IT manager/developer for 20 years (and it's always 20 years -- not 5, not 10, not 25, but 20)

Yeah. Go ask anyone it IT precisely how much computer knowledge people in those roles have and see what response you get (actually, you might want to take some lead shielding along ). To quote an old website, in most industries you get made a manager for being good at your job. In IT, you get made a manager because you can't do any other job.

No offence to any IT managers out there

You know, I reckon it's the same guy who keeps submitting those ridiculous service requests I get at work too.

But we don't expect to be treated with utter disrepect or have our work insulted. It's one of the reasons why so many game companies don't have forums, they don't want to put up with nasty users.

There seems to be a certain misconception out there that the only way to get fast, decent service is to make the most noise. A bit bizzarre when you think about it, the guys providing the support you're looking for are just as human as you, and how would you treat someone who is basically acting like a jerk?
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I sometimes think it's one guy who has many different names and goes on all forums because they seem to have the same background.


Ooohh, it's a conspiracy... (insert X-Files theme here) Maybe you should give Mulder and Scully a call?   
Don't you find this "theory" a bit paranoid? Or is this just a diversion? To think that someone would go to all the trouble...

I have been a programmer/IT manager/developer for 20 years (and it's always 20 years -- not 5, not 10, not 25, but 20)


Maybe there's actually a reason for the number 20?
(so this guy goes to such enormous trouble covering his tracks and then all of a sudden gets stupid?!)

Actually I haven't seen any posts that go like that, let alone detect any such pattern, but then again, I don't read all of it. Is there a specific example?

If someone wants to be cranky to someone, they should probably go to the store and yell about it there. I'm not a clerk.


Not that the poor guy there has anything to do with the game...   

I hope that doesn't sound elitist.


Nope, not at all.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nice pic of the surroundings. So, like, in Michigan, don't you have to call them "Icelands about half the year?

Sorry, went to college in Minnesota, the whole genre of "Lick the Stop Sign" jokes never grow old...

Watching cultures evolve on various Internet bulletin boards is an interesting thing. The Internet, as a medium, is conducive to lots of insecure guys acting like total twits. And they get to hide behind anonymous user names like "HugeThrustingPhallus" that don't conjure up pleasant images for any of us! But that's beside the point.

What does matter is that Internet bulletin boards create a community of sorts. While any good board requires some Admin intervention, the communities that really work are the ones where the citizens (i.e., the posters) set the tone and use social pressure to discourage undesirable behavior. There's always a give-and-take in those kinds of situations, and in the extreme examples, an Admin has to step in.

BUT, by and large, the reward of participating in a community like the forums here is... the ability to participate in a community like the forums here. Stardock sets a good tone for respectful, constructive feedback by taking some time to explain their philosophy and openly acknowledge when they make mistakes. That's a luxury that privately held companies have, which publically run companies don't, but it's still definitely worth appreciating!

Perhaps more important, as Brad hints in his original post, is that they take that feedback and use it to produce a superior product. Bottom line: If the game sucked, most of us wouldn't hang around here just because Brad and the developers are nice to us.

As is, we get a good game, we feel better about the company that's getting the money, and we have a better understanding for why a game works the way it does (with all the trade-offs involved in those design decisions). It takes A LOT more time and a lot more transparency than most companies are willing to endure: The public can turn very nasty as soon as any project team runs into adversity.

Transparency isn't the kind of thing you can do halfway, either: Once you start giving fans a look under the hood of your game, you need to be willing to explain all kinds of stuff. Otherwise, you just give them enough information to misinform them, and then they go off on ranting posts all over the Internet. Al Gore's claim to the contrary, sometimes I feel like it should have been titled "The Misninformation SuperHighway"!

Getting back to Stardock, though: Ultimately, I like the product, and I like the process that Stardock goes through to create the product. I have no idea what their financials look like, but judging from the companies' growth and high-quality products, they're clearly doing plenty of things right.

At this stage, the company name carries more clout with me than any other game developer name on the street: That alone is hard to put $$ to, but definitely will show up in your revenue stream whenever I buy that turn-based fantasy game, sight unseen!!
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I know it sucks Brad, but you will get some sucky customers. I worked for a telecom company for a while, and I was amazed by the number of rude people who call in. My favourite was a woman who had not paid her bills for like 6 months and got cut off. She finally paid, but there was a 24 hour delay in reconnecting her line. She got really nasty about it and started telling me how the phone box she was in was dirty and we don't take care of it. LMAO.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wow! A company that doesn't do a cost benefit analysis before every patch. My company's IT department could learn a thing or two from you.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Like I needed another reason to order my Stardock cheerleader outfit. I'm really glad to see a staunch capitalist like Brad put his money into providing a workplace where folks can have some wild kingdom time when they're taking a break.

I had a brief fascination with social space literature in my school days and the Stardock site seems to be an architectural reflection of their superior awareness of "the environment" (which includes all us talking nekkid apes--we're as natural as uranium or termites). Plus, knowing that Brad appreciates land that's just doing its own thing makes it easier to understand how he's been supporting this "chaos testing" stuff