Bush and Cheney BIG WINNERS from Tax Cuts

You, Gene, are a crass socialist propagandist. There is no such thing as being UNDERtaxed, so get your frickin hands out of other people's pockets - they might take offense to what you're doin' there. Oh, and please provide a link to your tax returns for the past 6 years.

Daiwa

If you are saying a person making 1.8Million should only pay 23% tax when we are running a deficit of $600 Billion per year you are NUTS! We need to increase the tax rates on people like Cheney and balance the budget. In 2001 Cheney was paying over 38% of his income in taxes. I know I did not get a tax cut like that. That is not being a socialist but fiscally responsible!
If I run for public office my tax returns will also become public.

Daiwa

This is from my Blog of 16 April 2005:

The Big winner is Cheney. In 2004, he had taxable income of $1,734,373 and paid 21.3% in Federal Income taxes. In 2001 Cheney had taxable income of $4,356,635 and paid 38% in Federal Income Taxes.

The Bush tax cuts reduced the % Cheney paid of 38% in 2001 to 23% in 2006. YES the BOYS took GOOD care of them selves and added over $ 3 Trillion to the national debt over the past 6 years!

Your usual non-response/dodge. Meh.

Daiwa This is from my Blog of 16 April 2005: The Big winner is Cheney. In 2004, he had taxable income of $1,734,373 and paid 21.3% in Federal Income taxes. In 2001 Cheney had taxable income of $4,356,635 and paid 38% in Federal Income Taxes. The Bush tax cuts reduced the % Cheney paid of 38% in 2001 to 23% in 2006. YES the BOYS took GOOD care of them selves and added over $ 3 Trillion to the national debt over the past 6 years

Col, must you "always" be such a complete moron?

drmiler

I posted the facts which you and others do not like. The facts are clear. Cheney making 1.8 Million, which puts him in the top 1% of the income pile, is paying 23% in Federal income tax and in 2001 BEFORE the Bush tax Cuts he paid 38% of his income in taxes. Cheney with 3 times the income of Bush pays a LOWER % in federal Income tax then Bush. I have read articles about how the wealthy pay over half their income in taxes is just not true. Even with state and local taxes it does not come even close. The issue is clear. Our country is running an annual deficit of about $600 Billion. WE need more tax revenue along with spending cuts (pork) to balance the budget; we also need to begin generating an annual surplus to be applied to paying down the debt. The BEST place to get the added tax revenue is from those that got the BIG tax cuts over the past 6 years which are the people like Bush and Cheney.

Last night I had a discussion with a retired German business man we know who spends 6 months in the U.S. each year. We were talking about the fact that many investors in Europe and China are beginning to turn to non dollar holding of new debt. He said the German investors look at the level of debt in the U.S. with concern and are not buying as much NEW U.S. debt. If the day comes when foreign investors cut their purchase of NEW treasury offerings, we will be UNABLE to fund the ever growing debt to finance the annual Budget Deficit. That will result is a financial crises in this country the likes of which we have not scene since 1929!

I have read articles about how the wealthy pay over half their income in taxes is just not true. Even with state and local taxes it does not come even close

And you personally know this to be a fact, how?

Last night I had a discussion with a retired German business man we know who spends 6 months in the U.S. each year. We were talking about the fact that many investors in Europe and China are beginning to turn to non dollar holding of new debt. He said the German investors look at the level of debt in the U.S. with concern and are not buying as much NEW U.S. debt. If the day comes when foreign investors cut their purchase of NEW treasury offerings, we will be UNABLE to fund the ever growing debt to finance the annual Budget Deficit. That will result is a financial crises in this country the likes of which we have not scene since 1929!

I hate to tell you, but one person is NOT the world! And while this persons "opinion" seems to carry some weight with you, it does not mean it carries much weight with the rest of us and certainly not with the US goverment.

And as far as this line goes....

Col, must you "always" be such a complete moron?

I just get a little tired of you telling the rest of JU who mostly do NOT agree with you, that we live in a dream world, or that we're morons, or that we are stupid. And while your opinion carries quite a bit of weight with "you"...it doesn't do much for the majority of us.

drmiler


It appears that many on this Blog site are conservatives or Bushies. It is also clear that most people on this Blog site do not care about facts just in their support for a president that is destroying OUR country. The comments of the business man were not just his views but his observations in Germany and his interaction with many other business persons in Germany. My point is valid in that IF the day comes when foreign investors begin to resist the purchase of our debt we will have a major fiscal problem in this country. YOU fail to comment on the fact that Cheney paid 38% in taxes in 2001 and in 2006 paid only 22.9% in taxes. That means he and people like him can afford a little more in taxes to help eliminate the deficit!

I am not undertaxed.
Cheney is not undertaxed.
You are not undertaxed.

Your precious government (that's the House & Senate, just so we're clear) is bloated, ineffecient and can't control it's appetite for our money.

My husband is an E-5 in the US Army and our family was a big winner from tax cuts.

Daiwa

No if you look at where the spending is taking place you see the VAST majority goes to security and, essential services, retirement and healthcare for those that have worked their entire lives and help to the poor and disabled. We can cut some items that only benefit very small pockets of our population is we can eliminate the PORK. That however would not make up the difference between the tax revenue and the essential spending. I have looked at the federal budget and anyone that claims we could cut $600 billion without harming those in need or sacrificing our security simply has not looked at the budget. Yes people like Cheney that saw their taxes cut so drastically can afford to pay more in order that we can solve our fiscal problem. Anyone that believes we can continue an annual deficit like we have been running since GWB took office is in dream land!

Texas Wahine

"My husband is an E-5 in the US Army and our family was a big winner from tax cuts. " If you have children under 18 you did benefit from the tax cuts. I have NEVER advocated eliminating the tax cuts from middle income families like yours. The people that got the BIG benefits from the bush Tax Cuts were people like Bush and Cheney. The deficit we are building by not balancing the budget will pass on to your children a burden that will harm them in the future. It will harm you future when you and your husband need Medicare and your retirement.

The comments of the business man were not just his views but his observations

Means the same damn thing.

It appears that many on this Blog site are conservatives or Bushies

More than likely true. And I know that just pisses you off all the more.

t is also clear that most people on this Blog site do not care about facts

We care about facts. It would seem that you don't. When presented with FACTS that do not support your position, you either ignore them or change the subject.

their support for a president that is destroying OUR country

This is only YOUR opinion! And worth no more than mine is.

If you have children under 18 you did benefit from the tax cuts. I have NEVER advocated eliminating the tax cuts from middle income families like yours.

Socialism at it's highest! It's okay for some....but not for everyone.

“IT appears that many on this Blog site are conservatives or Bushies


More than likely true. And I know that just pisses you off all the more.”


What it demonstrates is just how far from reality these people seem to be. They refuse to accept facts when ever they show the policies they embrace do not work or harm the country. There tactics are identical no matter which one responds. Attack, deny, ignore.

The use of arguments that do not fit the facts like

If you have children under 18 you did benefit from the tax cuts. I have NEVER advocated eliminating the tax cuts from middle income families like yours.


Socialism at it's highest! Its okay for some....but not for everyone.

What I said is NOTHING close to socialism. I am acknowledging the fact that we need to increase the tax revenue to balance the budget and the group that can afford to pay a little more is also the group that got the BIG tax cuts over the past 6 years. That is not socialism. It is not class warfare. It is not hate for the rich. It is a logical way to resolve a major problem that Bush and his supporters ignore. I have documented that the tax cuts were predicated on the return of a so called SURPLUS. Since there was NO SURPLUS, the tax payers were NOT BEING OVER TAXED in 2001 and there was NOTHING to return! Every single person on this Blog Site has IGNORED this fact!

Yet you want to waste federral dollars on stem cell research. If we eliminate the stupid causes that waste tax dollars we could end the budget as been proven to you by Dr. Guy, and other wise people.

Paladin77

Spending federal Dollars on research that could not only help cure disease but reduce the amount of money the federal Government spends on Medicare and Medicaid is a good use of our tax dollars. Just to fine a cure for one major disease that could save billions in medical expense in the future to say nothing of the suffering it could help prevent. We can spend a Trillion Dollars on a war that has made us LESS safe but you question money to find a cure for disease!

Gene, you're a dumbass.

The reason Cheney's income changed had nothing to do with tax cuts and everything to do with how he made his money: WAGES vs. CAPITAL GAINS.

The capital gains rate is 15%. Same as it was during Clinton.  If 100% of your income comes from capital gains (stock, interest, etc.) you pay 15%. 

Cheney sold off his Haliburton stock to avoid conflict of interest. That income was taxed at 15% (as it would have under Clinton).

I have tried to explain this to you before, using simple words even, how the INCOME TAX RATE is not the way to get "the rich" to pay in more.

Let me give you an example even you might undrestand:

I could have my business "loan" me $1 million dollars. I could then take that $1 million and put it in a municipal CD that bears around 5.5% interest.  That would be $55,000 in income from that.  My tax rate: 15%.

This is, btw, how John "Two Americas" Edwards does things. He pays himself through his investments and avoids paying income taxes.

If you want to pay more in taxes, by all means, volunteer to pay more.  I am definitely not undertaxed. 

I find it highly offensive that the day after I had to write the government a 6 figure check in taxes (after having paid nearly 7 figures in estimated taxes already) to have someone like you telling me I should be paying more even as you sit back on your ass demanding more giveaways for others that I should pay for.

How about a trillion dollars for an education system that teaches less than before they had the money?

Why don't you explain to me how the Vice-President got over onn the government but Senator Kennedy who's whole family for decades has been stashing money off shore is ok. Family net worth on paper is 100 million dollars yet they have more than that in just one off shore account. Why don't you ask him to pay his fair share? How about the Clintons who are starting to take thier money off shore? You sir are a political hack!

Dragional

You are like a lot of other wealthy people who refuse to accept that our nation is in a very destructive spiral of ever increasing debt. We cut taxes with the argument that we had a surplus and thus were over taxing the American people. That was not true as there was NO such Surplus and the justification to give people like you a tax cut simply did not exist. We need to balance the budget and need to restore the tax rates on the people that can afford more to pay more taxes to move us to a balanced budget. You can use all the nasty terms you want toward me. What I am saying is correct. When I see Bush paying only 24% of his $ 700,000 income to help pay the cost of government I know the rich are not paying a reasonable share and the fact remains we need another $800 Billion per year to balance the budget and begin repaying the debt! I am sorry but when I consider the alternative of allowing the wealthy to make their already huge pile a little higher or insuring the financial welfare of our country, I will choose the welfare of the country every time. If I look at the choice of helping people like you make your pile a little higher or providing help to the poor and disabled of our country I will choose the poor and disabled. You do not need the tax Bush tax cut. WE NEED to balance the budget, repay the debt and help those that need help!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a lot like people who don't know anything about our tax structure.

Let me say it again (with feeling):

There are MANY TYPES OF TAXES.  You have a fixation on one type of tax - federal income taxes. That's dumb. 

Rich people rig the system in ways you can't even imagine (apparently).

Did you even read what I wrote earlier? Dick Cheney paid so little taxes because his money comes from selling stocks which don't involve income taxes at all.

Dragional

It was the Income Tax that Bush cut without justification (The Surplus). We are still out of balance by $600 Billion and need another $200 Billion to begin paying down the debt!

Socialism at it's highest! Its okay for some....but not for everyone. What I said is NOTHING close to socialism. I am acknowledging the fact that we need to increase the tax revenue to balance the budget and the group that can afford to pay a little more is also the group that got the BIG tax cuts over the past 6 years. That is not socialism. It is not class warfare. It is not hate for the rich. It is a logical way to resolve a major problem that Bush and his supporters ignore. I have documented that the tax cuts were predicated on the return of a so called SURPLUS. Since there was NO SURPLUS, the tax payers were NOT BEING OVER TAXED in 2001 and there was NOTHING to return! Every single person on this Blog Site has IGNORED this fact!

NO! What "you've" ignored is taking from the rich (in taxes)in order to give to the poor. That is socialism, FOOL!

What it demonstrates is just how far from reality these people seem to be. They refuse to accept facts when ever they show the policies they embrace do not work or harm the country. There tactics are identical no matter which one responds. Attack, deny, ignore.

AGAIN NO! Those are "your" tatics, not ours. Would you like me to repost some of your own blogs to prove my point? I have a few bookmarked just for such occasions.

"NO! What "you've" ignored is taking from the rich (in taxes)in order to give to the poor. That is socialism, FOOL!”

Restoring the tax rates that were in effect prior to 2001 is NOT SOCALISM. YOU ARE THE FOOL!

You have just attacked me as a response to my post. YOU HAVE PROVEN MY POINT. YOU ARE AS DUMB AS A STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You, col. Gene, lie and mislead and attack on a regular basis. You name call and all the while you refuse to even acknowledge the persons points. This means that discussion and debate are a waste of time with you. People have proven your arguments to be fallacious at best yet you steadfastly refuse to admit you were wrong on this point or that. He stated you were acting foolishly in your beliefs. You have in turn called me a dumb ass, a fool, an ass. All attacks on me because you disagree with my point. I shed no tears for your hurt feelings. You are a political hack that cares not for the truth only hate. Not an attack just analyst of your words.

This is your article right?

Title being how Bush and Cheney made out on the tax cuts? But you are totally wrong. The reason they paid less in taxes has nothing to do with th eincome tax which Bush cut. It is because of the CAPITAL GAINS tax which has NOT been cut.

The basis of your article is wrong.

As usual I am sad to say.