Bush Does not get the Stem Cell Argument!

Funny how you always fail to grasp what is going on.
GWB was the first president that authorized stem cell research.
So far all the strides in stem cell research have been with adult stem cells and oh yeah, the best stem cells that seem to work so far are the stem cells taken from the patients own body. Don’t you ever feel as dumb as your writting?

George W. Bush is again threatening to Veto a new bill that would allow Federal Funding of Stem Cell Research. He argues that we can not destroy human life. What the President does not seem to get is the frozen stem cells that are left over from in-vitro fertilization will be destroyed as medical waste. The choice is not between life and destruction of these cells. The choice is destruction by incineration as medical waste or destruction to seek cures for disease. The Bush answer will destroy these cells with NO benefit to anyone and if he prevents their use in federally funded research they will not become human life and will ultimately be destroyed. WHY does Bush not understand this simple fact?

AGAIN with this LIE! I have already proven you false on this very arguement. Must I do it again?

He doesn't research, he only reads some other loon's drivel and parrots it.

Paladin77

Researchers believe that embryonic Stem cells hold great promise and neither you nor I have the expertise to dispute their opinion.

The issue is not how effective the research will be but the fact that the left over stem cells from in-Vitro will be destroyed if they are not used for research. Thus is NO EVENT will these left over stem cells become human life. The ONLY choice is destruction by fire or destruction to try and find cures for disease. If they are destroyed by fire there is NO chance they will do ANY GOOD. If they are used in research there is a chance for finding cures. That is what Bush does not get. These cells will be DESTROYED in EITHER event so why not allow them to be used in federally funded research?

drmiler & mason M

YOU HAVE PROVEN NOTHING. The issue is the use of cells that will be destroyed anyway. That is a fact. My nephew had a child using in-vitro and the remaining stem cells are frozen and will be destroyed soon because they are done having children. If they agree to the use of their remaining cells for research that is federally funded why should that be prevented by GWB?

Again we have the majority of Congress and the American People supporting this research and Bush is preventing the will of the majority. WHY?????

Again we have the majority of Congress and the American People supporting this research and Bush is preventing the will of the majority. WHY?????

NO YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MAJORITY! The "majority" do support stem cell research...but DO NOT support using the in-vitro children. Those children could be implanted in a childless woman. And get it RIGHT ...GW DOES support stem cell reasearch! And there is NOTHING stopping the private sector research from using the in-vitro. Just not with government funding.

And as to the embyonic stem cells holding such great promise...then why are ALL the major discoveries coming from ADULT stem cells. They have yet to make ANY break through with the embryonic ones.

Hundreds rally against embryonic cloning procedure at Mo. Capitol Thursday, March 8, 2007 By DAVID A. LIEB ~ The Associated Press JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- Hundreds of opponents of embryonic stem-cell research crammed the Capitol halls Wednesday urging a statewide election on whether to overturn a voter-approved constitutional protection for such research. Legislative proposals to put a stem-cell research amendment back on the 2008 ballot have stalled in divided House and Senate committees.

Or go read this: Link

The question of stem cells is currently the dominant subject in the debate over biotechnology and human genetics: Should we use embryonic stem cells or adult stem cells for future medical therapies? Embryonic stem cells are taken from a developing embryo at the blastocyst stage, destroying the embryo, a developing human life. Adult stem cells, on the other hand, are found in all tissues of the growing human being and, according to latest reports, also have the potential to transform themselves into practically all other cell types, or revert to being stem cells with greater reproductive capacity. Embryonic stem cells have not yet been used for even one therapy, while adult stem cells have already been successfully used in numerous patients, including for cardiac infarction (death of some of the heart tissue).

Proven wrong yet again! Besides which, no matter what you or I think or feel... we are NOT the president! And the final decision rests with him. PERIOD!

drmiler

The Congress that was elected by the people support allowing Federally Funded research using embryonic Stem cells. The issue I outlined in my Blog is that the position Bush is taking as applied to the use of stem cells that are left over from In-vitro does not make sense. These Stem cells will be destroyed at some point. The issue is using those Stem cells with the consent of the donors in federally Funded Research. The left over in-vitro cells will not be used and will be destroyed if they are not used for research. The issue is not will these left over cells become a living person only the way they are disposed of in the future. If we allow bush to have his way they will be destroyed with NO benefit to ANYONE. If we allow their use with the consent of the donors they will be destroyed with the possibility of finding cures for many diseases. Bush is trying to interject his particular religious out look and is applying his outlook in totally illogically way since his choice will still result in the destruction of the left over cells from the in-vitro process YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN WHAT I HAVE SAID WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Really? That's great! Researchers have proven that adult stem cells taken from the patient works in a lot of cases. So you believe that we should spend money looking for a cure to stuff using unproven methods just to see what they can do when other researchers have a working protocol. I think we should spend tax dollars on finding out what else can be done with adult stem cells before we dump money into something that holds promise. It is called scietific protocol exhaust the easy stuff first.



Right why worry about effectiveness when we can waste money on trial and error. There are private corporations that can do all the research they want on their dime, so it is not that there is no research using baby stem cells.



Because private industry is already doing this why does the government have to do it as well, you know duplicating the efforts.

Let's see..

Gene's articles seem to rotate between decrying the deficit spending and advocating for more spending.

Why should the federal government be spending money on this?  It's not outlawing stem cell research. It's just a law that forbids the goverment from using tax payer money for it.

If we allow bush to have his way they will be destroyed with NO benefit to ANYONE

This is a flat out and out LIE! How many times must you be told something "before" you listen? The ONLY thing GW has put a hold on is FEDERALLY FUNDED embryonic research! That does NOT stop privatly funded research from using them! And yes, this proves you wrong! As does Paladin77's last post! I swear if you get any more ignorant, they will have to put you in an institute for the mentally retarded!

but they won't, you know it very well..

And even if stem cell research made on those collected on adults is promising, there is a lot more availabilty (thu, more research opportunity) of the embryos, since the % of stem cell within an embryo is sky-higher than those on an adult.

Personnaly, between using those embryo or flushing them down the toilet in a few years, I'd say try to do something useful with them.

The ONLY thing GW has put a hold on is FEDERALLY FUNDED embryonic research! That does NOT stop privately funded research from using them! And yes, this proves you wrong!

The impact of what Bush wants to do is limit the amount of money and the pace of the research. The issue none of you address is that the Stem cells that are left over from in-vitro will be DESTROYED as medical waste. Allowing Federally Funded research using these cells will not end a SINGLE human life. That is the issue Bush and all that support his position refuse to accept.

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I favor stem cell research. But I also care about the deficit. I don't see why the federal government should be funding research like this.

dragional

If you cared about the deficit you would support higher taxes for those that can afford to pay a little more and help the deficit. Look at what Cheney and Bush paid in 2006. Cheney 22.9% and Bush 24.3%. That clearly shows the Rich are NOT being over taxed!

dragional

You might also consider if we spent a little more on Stem Cell Research that enabled us to find cures for some diseases, we could end up spending LESS from both Medicare and Medicaid and REDUCE spending on medical as the Boomers retire!

you'll never convince them of those arguments. "Spending more to spend less" is rarely accept by anyone.

Off course, since many of it is bullcrap, I understand why...

And your opinion is based on assumption that stem cell research WILL grant solutions (instead of "may"). And it is based on the assumption that said-solutions will be available cheap for everybody that needs it.

In a land like America, I find the last assumption pretty stupid.

No. Like most people with a basic understanding of economics, the first thing you do when you are spending more than you earn is to figure out ways to cut some spending.

Spending federal dollars on stem cell research is a no brainer thing not to support.

The drug companies don't seem to be short of capital to be doing this kind of research.

Your argument, Gene, demonstrates why again you are a socialist. If it involves the government funding it, you seem to be for it. And you want other people (not you of course) to pay for it.

And even if stem cell research made on those collected on adults is promising, there is a lot more availabilty (thu, more research opportunity) of the embryos, since the % of stem cell within an embryo is sky-higher than those on an adult.

Do a little more research on this. The research on adult stem cells are WAY more promising than the embryonic ones. Or haven't you been paying attention. ALL the major break throughs in the stem cell area has been done with ADULT stem cells. There is nothing to show for the embryonic side.

The impact of what Bush wants to do is limit the amount of money and the pace of the research. The issue none of you address is that the Stem cells that are left over from in-vitro will be DESTROYED as medical waste. Allowing Federally Funded research using these cells will not end a SINGLE human life. That is the issue Bush and all that support his position refuse to accept

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So what? See the above statement. That is one of the reasons why he's cut federal funding in that area. They have "absolutely" NOTHING to show for all their research.

I am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste!

Every left winger seems to forget that fact. They think throwing more money at a failing process will suddenly make it profitable.



and why should MY tax dollars go towards this? I can think of better uses for the money... don't just blither on about how we could tax people more to pay for it.

Lifehappens


There are many researchers that believe the use of embryonic Stem cells hold great promise. I am not a researcher and I doubt that you are one either. The smart thing is to allow the left over Stem cells to be used through in Federally Funded research rather then to just destroy these cells as medical waste. That is what the vast majority of Congress has said and why should Bush stop this research with an argument that does not hold water. No potential life will be destroyed by the use of these left over cells!

I never listed a complaint about potential waste of life....that topic is a moral debate and therefore impossible to change someone's opinion.

I asked, WHY SHOULD IT BE FEDRALLY FUNDED? I still don't see any pressing, REAL evidence that woudl lead it to be a good choice to spend our tax dollars on. WHY SHOULD TAXES PAY FOR A THEORY? It has not been profitable medically or financially and shows only vauge promise of future potential...thre is no evidence to justify the spending of TAX DOLLARS.

So use your free choice, skip the government red tape and donate YOUR money to support the causes that YOU feel need it. Think of all the money you could save by eliminating the middle man!

am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste

"You" can be sure all you want. But EVERY "major" researcher in the stem cell field say the adult stem cells hold more promise to cure things than the embryonic ones. I don't see your problem. Mankind has been able to do in-vitro for years. Stem cell research has been on the plate a lot less time. Just what do you believe happened to "all" the left over cells in the meantime?

Embryonic stem cell quote from wikipedia Because of their plasticity and potentially unlimited capacity for self-renewal, ES cell therapies have been proposed for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease. To date, no approved medical treatments have been derived from embryonic stem cell research.

Also from wikipedia:

Main article: Adult stem cell treatments Adult stem cells are being developed for use in treatments for a variety of human conditions, ranging from blindness to spinal cord injury. Since adult stem cells can be harvested from the patient, potential ethical issues and immunogenic rejection are averted. Although many different kinds of multipotent stem cells have been identified, adult stem cells that could give rise to all cell and tissue types have not yet been found. Adult stem cells are often present in only minute quantities and can therefore be difficult to isolate and purify. Depending on the stem cell type, they can be multiplied in-vitro to therapeutic numbers. Generally though, adult stem cells do not self-renew as effectively as embryonic stem cells. This is especially true of hematopoietic stem cells. There is also limited evidence that adult stem cells may not have the same capacity to multiply as embryonic stem cells. Finally, adult stem cells may contain more DNA abnormalities—caused by sunlight, toxins, and errors in DNA replication the course of a lifetime. However, there are a number of clinically proven adult stem cell successes.

Now name "something" embryonic stem cell has produced. I can tell you in one word. NOTHING!

#20 by COL Gene Mon, April 16, 2007 07:58 AM I am not SURE that Embryonic Stem Cell research will cure disease but if we do not do the research I KNOW we will not find the cures. I also understand that the left over stem cells from in-vitro will be destroyed and it seems to me to allow federal Funding using these cells makes more sense then to just have them destroyed as medical waste!

Just a hint here....THEY ARE DOING THE RESEARCH!!!

For three years I worked as the administrator of the Dept of Biology at the Univ. of Pennsylvania. I saw first hand the research effort and the cost to investigate things like cures for disease. The simple fact is that contributions to private research are good but the reality is that it does not provide a level of funding to move the research along as fast as with the supplement of Federal Funding. That is especially true of basic research as opposed to applied research. What I am saying is the moral argument Bush is making by opposing this bill does NOT rest on a VALID moral objection. The truth is that the left over embryonic Stem Cells from in-vitro fertilization will be destroyed and the use of cells for research does not pose any morel basis for an objection. They will be destroyed if not used in research!