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A Critic's Mind Changed

A Critic's Mind Changed

built on solid evidence

As a student of the bible, I love to hear about the discoveries that have over the years only given much credence to this book. There have been many stories of brilliant minds that have attempted to disprove the scriptures only to succumb to the realization that the bible is truly a magnificant piece of literature unlike any other.

William Albright, known for his reputation as one of the great archaeologists, said: "There can be no doubt that archaeology has confirmed the substantial historicity of Old Testament tradition."

He also said: "The exessive skepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the 18th & 19th centuires, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognititon to the value of the Bible as a source of history."

Millar Burrows of Yale observes: "Archaeology has in many cases refuted the views of modern critics. it has shown in a number of instances that these views rest on false assumptions and unreal, artifical schemes of historical development."

He also exposes the cause of much unbelief: "The excessive skepticism of many liberal theologians stems not from a careful evaluation of the available data, but from an enormous predisposition against the supernatural."

This is still true today. How many of us are coming to the table with our predisposed beliefs based on what we've just picked up along the way? I hear alot of repititon from those that have no idea where they've heard such and such. It's like gossip. They are picking up and passing on what they have had whispered in their ears. I did this myself for a while until I realized I really had nothing to back myself up on other than what I heard from another.

He adds: "On the whole, archaelogical work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record. More than one archaeologist has found his respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine". :

Sir William Ramsay is regarded as one of the greatest archaeologists ever to have lived. He was a student in the German historical school of the mid 19th century. He believed the Book of Acts was a product of the mid 2nd century AD. He was very convinced of this belief. In his research to make a topographical study of Asia Minor he was compelled to consider the writings of Luke, the physician. As a result he was forced to do a complete reversal of his beliefs due to the overwhelming evidence uncovered in his research. He said this about his change of mind:

"I may fairly claim to have entered on this investigation without prejudice in favor of the conclusion which I shall now seek to justify to the reader. On the contrary, I began with a mind unfavorable to it, for the ingenuity and apparent completness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite convinced me. it did not then lie in my line of life to investigate the subject minutely; but more recenly I found myself brought into contact with the Book of Acts as an authority for the topgraphy , antiquities and socieity of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne upon me that in various details the narrative showed marvelous truth. In fact, beginning with a fixed idea that the work was essentially a 2nd century composition and never relying on its evidence as trustworthy for first century conditions, I gradually came to find it a useful ally in some obscure and difficult investigations."

Ramsay concluded after 30 years of study that "Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy......."this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." Ramsay also says: "Luke's history is unsurpassed in respect of its trustworthiness."

To even consider this book coming from an all powerful God it MUST meet certain requirements. It has to be transmitted to us accurately from the time it was originally written so we have exactly what God wanted us to have. Next it must be correct when it deal with dates, events and places. A book that has these things mixed up has no right to claim it comes from an infallible God.

If you test the NT documents with the same standard of tests applied to any of the Greek classics, the evidence overwhelmingly favors the NT. If someone states that we have a reliable text of classics, then that same person would be forced to admit that the NT is also just as reliable.

Actually many don't realize that the original NT copies were in better textual shape than the 37 plays of Shakespeare written in the 17th century, after the invention of printing. In every one of his plays there are gaps in the printed text where we have no idea what originally was said. Textual scholars were forced to make good guesses to fill in the blanks. With the abundance of existing manuscripts of the NT we know nothing has been lost through the transmission of the text.

Those who contend that the Bible is unreliable historically are not historians or archeologists. While I can't prove the bible is inspired or written by the very hand of God, (although I believe it to be true,) I do believe the evidence supports the claim the Bible certainly is the very word of God.



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Reply #176 Top
Lula posts:
Let's start by setting up some ground definitions. 1. Jesus Christ is God made man and He exemplified only good, nay, perfect habits during His life on earth. 2. The Temple where this incident took place is God's house. 3. Ephesians 4:26 "Be angry and sin not."


So Daiho posts:
1. Jesus was not God.


What are you basing this assertion upon?

Christ said He was God and so did His Apostles. Saul of Tarsus, renamed Paul was tortured, suffered, imprisoned and exposed to death, all for saying that Christ is God. As a matter of fact, there have been many martyrs who endured horrible deaths in His Name. They didn't give their lives for religious freedom...but martyred for the First Commandment. They insisted upon Christianity's exceptional nature...One God in Three Persons before whom there were no others.

Reply #177 Top
One God in Three Persons before whom there were no others.


Multiple personality disorder? Yikes...God's a little unstable.

~Zoo
Reply #178 Top
One God in Three Persons before whom there were no others.


Multiple personality disorder? Yikes...God's a little unstable.


My thoughts exactly. I've always seen the traditional Christian God as some sort of schizophrenic, narcissistic ventriloquist.
Reply #179 Top
Lula posts:
Problem is besides all the oxen, sheep and cattle that were there defiling the courts, there were also many dealers and dishonest money changers haggling and bargaining. All this caused a great deal of noise and made worship in the outer courts impossible. When Christ saw this unholy traffic going on, He, full of holy zeal and with righteous indignation, reproved and punished the dealers for behaving irrevently and drove them and the animals out of the Temple.


So Daiho posts:
You are using a contemporary and very Christian understanding to make sense of a Jewish Temple with Jewish culture and customs. Noise, haggling, changing money, was hardly defiling the Temple. It was life being lived, vibrant, living color life: nothing unholy about it. If anything, Jesus needed to set himself up as a radical thinker, apart from the religion of his Fathers, the patriarchs.

Be well.


SoDaiho,

I'm guilty as charged of using Christian understanding to make sense of what happened at the Temple that is charged as unholy as Christ cast out those who were selling and buying in the Temple saying to them, "It is written, 'My house is a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of thieves". This is according to the Gospel of Saint Luke 19:45-47.

I may know more about the Temple than you think..for the Temple is the precursor of the Church. Christ's indignation shows His zeal for the glory of His Father, to be recognized at this time in the Temple itself. He enveighs against the traders for engaging in business which has nothing to do with divine worship. Even the priests allowed some of these abuses to go on--perhaps because they benefitted from them in the form of taxes. The traders did perform services necessary for divine worship, but this was vitiated by their excessive desire for gain, turning the Temple into a market-place.

"My house shall be a house of prayer", Christ uses these words of Isaias to underline the purpose of the Temple.

If anything, Jesus needed to set himself up as a radical thinker, apart from the religion of his Fathers, the patriarchs.


Ah, no SoDaiho---now, who is getting into contemporary thinking?


Christ's behavior shows the respect the Temple of Jerusalem deserved. In acting as He did underlining the purpose of the Temple was holding up the biblical Judaism, the religion of the patriarchs.
Reply #180 Top
9-21 And he drank of the wine, and was 1drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.


LITTLE WHIP POSTS:
Noah got drunk AND naked, hahaha.


LW,

There's reasons for things. Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness. Listen up, Zoo, you might find this interesting as well.

It is a well known fact that wine was imbibed in those days. To my knowledge there is no mention of Noah ever getting drunk before the Flood. This happened after the Flood.

In my study of Creation and the Flood, I've read Gerard J. Keane, Creation Rediscovered. The following comes from his book.

Various creationists suggest that when God created the earth, He lifted up sufficient water, Gen.1:7, to expose the desired extent of dry land and then suspended it high in the atmosphere. They suggest that God instantly turned this water into vapor (super heated transparent steam) and established it in a pressure-temperature distribution.

It's argued that a greenhouse effect would have ensued, with pleasant temperatures in all parts of the globe allowing a state of tranquility on Earth. This in turn would have allowed lush vegatation to grow in all areas. The atmospheric pressure would have been about 2.18 times that of today's atmosphere, thus facilitating giant forms of life to exist. It also would have aided longetivity.

So, before the Flood the Earth would have very likely would have had an entirely different environment from today. (If the idea of the vapor canopy and greenhouse effect seems fantastic, one can point to an atmospheric canopy in existence today on Venus. The temperatures at the poles and equator are similiar. If this canopy theory is valid, the higher atmospheric pressure provides a clue to why Noah got drunk after he had re-established his family on the Earth after the waters of the Flood had subsided.

Perhaps he was caught off guard. With the canopy gone, the rate of formation of the alcohol in the wine would have speeded up, and Noah would not have anticipated there being more alcohol in the wine, the same amount of wine he normally drank before the Flood occurred and from which he didn't get drunk.

Reply #181 Top
Listen up, Zoo, you might find this interesting as well.


Oh...that certainly was...interesting.

A little unnecessary seeing as how we've perfected the science of meteorology...but hey, makes it seem more fabulous. This is what weatherman should say in the morning:

"Well, God decided to dry up some water over there and drop it on us. Thanks God!"

By the way...I don't see how atmospheric conditions could affect alcoholic beverages. Alochol evaporates at a greater rate than water. Ethanol, drinking alcohol, evaporates very quickly. That's why we spray it on lab benches because it dries super fast. Also, the fermenting is carried out by microorganisms in dark, mild places.

~Zoo
Reply #182 Top
For all your eloquence at times, I find your lack of basic vocabulary skills shocking, or are you just blindly cutting and pasting from some poorly researched (but quickly googled) web-site? Do you even read or consider what you pass along in this fashion?

emulation: An effort to better, equal, or imitate a person we admire. If someone thinks you're a great Christian, they might try to emulate your behavior. A young man who admires fighter pilots might emulate the career path of his favorite hero.

This is bad fruit?


Nope not cutting and pasting. Typed it up with my own hand. Opened up the big book and typed it all out. Wrong again LW. Yes, it's bad fruit but our definitions are different.

Here it is again this time with an explanation so you'll understand completely what these all mean. Look them up yourself if you'd like. I'll give you the reference.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God [Gal. 5:19–21].


This is an ugly brood of sensual sins, religious sins, social sins, and personal sins.

Sensual Sins-Fornication—prostitution
Uncleanness—(akatharsia) impurity, sexual sins including pornography
Lasciviousness—brutality, sadism (we see this abounding in our day)

Religious Sins-Idolatry—worship of idols (this includes money and everything that takes the place of God)
Witchcraft—(pharmakeia) drugs (drugs are used in all heathen religions)
Hatred—enmityVariances—eris (the Greek Eris was the goddess of strife) contentions, quarrels

Social SinsEmulations—(zelos) rivalry, jealousy
Wrath—(thumos) a hot temper
Strife—factions, cliques (little cliques in a church hurt the cause of Christ)
Seditions—divisions
Heresies—parties, sects
Envyings—(phthonos)

Personal SinsDrunkenness Revelings, wantonness

This basically is speaking to our nature LW. We are not perfect ALL the time. We can, even as goody goody Christians deliver some bad fruit. We are human. But when it comes to habitually, consisitently delivering bad fruit it says something about us. Don't you think so?

When you go to the scripture and read this it's very clear "it's what you do" meaning it's a continuous action. An illustration was given by Jesus of the Prodigal. He was in the pigpen for a while but he didn't stay there. Ya, he messed up. But when he realized how bad he was by examining his life, he repented, went back to the Father and was accepted back.

I pray that for you LW.

Lot, of course, got drunk the minute he boogied out of Sodom and Gomorrah.


Ha! Well com'on be honest. Look at what he went thru. Barely escaped, probably a bit singed from the fallout, lost his wife after she became a salt lick. I mean com'on. He probably got drunk to escape the reality of it all. Not making excuses for him, but can understand.

As for Noah? No excuse. How could he. There is no satisfactory excuse for him. I don't agree with Lula on this one. There is no use trying to make excuses for Noah. The bare fact is that Noah got drunk.

I think the better question here is why in the world was this even written down? It sure doesn't make Noah look like a hero. It seems as tho the writer of Genesis should have covered this up doncha think? I mean it doesn't look good to the LW's of the world does it? Well I think God had a purpose in including stuff like this, along with David's Sins, Paul's sins, Peter's sins, ect. Paul wrote:

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Rom 15:4

The purpose was to show our weakness in the flesh. Even the good guys get in trouble from time to time. None of us are exempt. Even Noah who just went thru the greatest experience of all the bible even screwed up. Tells us the rest of us can't escape.
Reply #183 Top
Lula said...Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness.....

You no longer have ANY credibility, this is the 3rd or 4th time you have been caught making things up (in this thread alone).

How old are you exactly?

You have just become a prime example of why evolution does NOT work. the strongest argument I have run across, it just can not be denied.
Reply #184 Top
Lula said...Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness.....

You no longer have ANY credibility, this is the 3rd or 4th time you have been caught making things up (in this thread alone).


In Lula's defence SomewhereinND this is actually what some believe to be true trying to give some grace to Noah. She didn't make this up. I just think he was wrong period, because he was human. And humans make mistakes no matter how good they are.

If that author wrote Genesis the way you write your blog, he would have.


actually that's a good point LW. It just shows what I believe to be true. That it was God who authored the bible, not men or women like me because we would have left out the bad stuff to make our own "look good." Just like you accuse me of doing.


In fact, he not only got drunk and naked, he cursed his son for seeing him in that condition. Nice fella, that Noah.


well there's more to the story than that LW. It's deeper than that. The Hebrew word literally means he gazed with satisfaction. His two brothers showed respect for their father by covering him. Notice the curse wasn't on "Ham" but on his son.

What doesn't look good to the LW's of this word is people like you who hide and conceal their own flawed natures while telling others how to live.(Like preaching abstinence-only education while conveniently neglecting to mention that this didn't work even with your own children.)


Ha! You keep saying this. I don't hide anything. If I did, you certainly wouldn't know about my middle son now would you? Have you ever thought of that? And you love to harp on this.....so why in the world would I want to tell you anything negative about my life? You grab onto any little thing I say and run with it.

I do believe in abstince education...absolutely. I don't care if I had 10 kids who were NOT practicing it. It wouldn't make me NOT believe it's the right thing to teach our young kids. Truth is truth. I don't change truth based on experience and emotion. And IT actually DID work with my kids. Two are still to this day preaching it themselves still unmarried, and you know that I've mentioned this before.

Agan, you misrepesent me for your own purposes.







Reply #185 Top
SIND POSTS:
Lula said...Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness.....

You no longer have ANY credibility, this is the 3rd or 4th time you have been caught making things up (in this thread alone).

How old are you exactly?

You have just become a prime example of why evolution does NOT work. the strongest argument I have run across, it just can not be denied.


SIND,

And you need to lighten up, get a grip, and chill for a while...Have some ice tea or hot chocolate and please read it again...

I didn't make this up...I'm not that ingenious.

Reply #186 Top
I didn't make this up...I'm not that ingenious.


But someone sure did, and it was a hell of a doozie . . .
Reply #187 Top
Lula posts:
Lula said...Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness.....


KFC POSTS:
In Lula's defence SomewhereinND this is actually what some believe to be true trying to give some grace to Noah. She didn't make this up. I just think he was wrong period, because he was human. And humans make mistakes no matter how good they are.


Putting aside that I think the vapor canopy idea is a good one going forward, ya, I'll admit I was trying to give some grace to Noah.

I just think he was wrong period, because he was human. And humans make mistakes no matter how good they are.


But I'm sure you can see that Noah wouldn't have been wrong if the vapor canopy idea is true! OK, ok, I can hear you all now...enough of that; I'll give it up (for now!)for who knows what science will come up with!

Back to giving some grace to Noah and the fact that he was human, etc. etc.

The ancient Israelites were a temperate people...that is temporate used in the right sense...(we gotta be careful with definitions!).

My point is they used light wine as part of their regular diet according to 1Tim. 3:8. Wine we know from the wedding at Cana was used at celebrations and Christ through His miracle, supplied the wedding party with quite a bit.

Also, wasn't wine used for medicinal purposes according to St.Luke 10:34? How about when St.Paul advised timothy to take wine to ease stomach pains? 1Tim.5:23

What we are talking about is the misuse of wine. Scripture condemns excessive drinking 1Cor.5:11, Gal.5:21, Eph. 5:18, 1St.Peter 4:3, but then again, the key word is "excessive" and I don't mean that in a relavistic sense. St.Paul says Chruch leaders must not be addicted to wine. 1Tim.3:8. So, alcohol, or wine, in itself is not evil, but the misuse of it is. I think on this we can all agree.