Unionfacts.org TV ads

Here's another sample.

I can't decide which of these I like better, both are pretty good and fairly hard hitting. Definitely not something that would make me feel good about participating in a union.

Unions - big business with no accounability.

They should do one about the union thugs who attacked republican campaign workers.  

They don't seem very informative to me, they are just a bunch of vague allegations. Union members have to pay dues? How is that such a bad thing? Discriminate against minorities? Examples? Support politicians you may not like? Perish the thought.

There isn't a single piece of real information in either ad.

There isn't a single piece of real information in either ad.

Spoken like a true union man.

Please explain. Tell me what you know about me that I am unaware of.

Can you give examples of how the ads are informative?

You are either incredibly Naive, totally ignorant, or being facetious.

Examples? Secret Ballot - Gone. Forced payment of Dues. Supporting Political Candidates they do not like or want to. Supporting Executives that make many MANY multiples of what the line employees do (CEOs - Hello!).

I agree about the secret ballot, most people probably don't know about that. However, aren't all the other allegations either common knowledge and/or vague? The accusations are so unspecific that they could be leveled at most large businesses or organizations.

When ads like that are so vague It makes me very leery of them. It makes me think that they are intentionally deceptive (propaganda).

Common Knowledge? To whom. Does Every Union Member know about those facts? (They are facts - only the extent is in doubt). While you and I may know this and it is common knowledge, I dare say we are mnre informed than most Americans - and that goes for Union Members as well.

Besides, you just asked for facts. Not who knew them.

No, I asked how they were informative. This is what I think is common knowledge: union dues, supporting politicians you may not like (isn't this true of any large organization?), top executives make a lot more than the rank and file member (again, true of most any large organization).

Vague: discriminate against minorities...why not give examples here? Are they saying that all unions do this or just some?



That is why I think the ads are deceptive, they don't give details. They are blanket statements with the intention of deceiving people in to thinking that the accusations are true of all unions.

I did some research about unionfacts.org. Turns out it is one of Rick Berman's front organizations. Here is some information about him.

WWW Link

And how is that different from the Unions? As I said in the first place:

It isn't, at least for some unions. I agree, that are a lot of bad unions out there. Just as there are a lot of bad businesses, but I don't think all (or even most) businesses are bad.

My main grievance with the ads was that I thought that they were deceptive (due to vagueness), and it turns out that they are. The organization that made them is a complete sham.

You're right, Abe, but because they are propaganda ads, not testimonies.

Want a testimony? American Borate Company's Billie Mine in Death Valley, California. I worked there for six months. The mine is predominantly Mexican, and most of those are illegals, yet any attempts to contact the union office in Lancaster, CA were not returned.

These Mexicans, almost universally not American citizens, even the legal ones, were handling dynamite, with the full knowledge of our union reps at the location. Handling explosives by non citizens has been prohibited at least since the post 9/11 fallout.

The union did not have an established grievance procedure, and during my time at the mine, the collective bargaining agreement was signed with NO interaction from the laborers. We did not get to voice our opinions at any time to a union representative. The shop's union representative did not speak English, and the one planned meeting that was cancelled was relayed to the workers in Spanish, so it was not until one of the Mexicans that actually SPOKE to the gringoes told us that we were even informed of the meeting.

Many MSHA and OSHA violations were present underground in the mine, and the union did not respond to a single complaint. How about a full sized truck with no brakes? You stopped it by skidding along the sides of the tunnel and using what very little braking power existed. Now take that and make it ALL the trucks. AND the muckers (basically low profile front end loaders.

All of this we had to endure for $9.00 an hour. We were expected to dress on our time, to clean up on our time, both of which violate standard union protocol. We worked 6 days a week and up to 12 hours a day.

Don't tell me what a great thing unions are. The mine was one of the worst jobs I ever worked. And it was a union job.

I didn't...

I think they were pretty specific. ON the charges leveled. Perhaps you meant the generalities? IN that case, I would agree that the charges are generalities - that in specific instances are true. But not in all cases.