Gideon MacLeish Gideon MacLeish

And you call MICROSOFT a Monopoly?

▼

And you call MICROSOFT a Monopoly?

from JoeUser Forums

I am sick to death of Mac snobs. In variably in any discussion with Mac fanbois, they will cry about Microsoft being a monopoly.

Yeah, uh huh. Keep crying because your computer manufacturer was insanely stupid. The computer company that really brought the idea of upgradeability to personal computing, now puts out boxes that can't be upgraded. The computer company that started serious work on GUI, yet didn't have the foresight to protect it so that Microsoft could use it to create competing operating systems.

But, see, that's only the tip of the iceberg. If you look back at the monopolies that started antitrust legislation, they controlled the suppliers of raw goods, the manufaturing plants, the distribution plants. Basically they controlled costs because all of their suppliers belonged to them.

That doesn't sound like Microsoft, it sounds like Apple.

Quick. Name me three major PC manufacturers. Even the brain dead could come up with HP, Gateway, and Dell. Now, name me three major Mac manufacturers. Apple. (crickets chirp).

Ok, ok, so maybe that wasn't completely fair. Walk into the computer store and ask for a new video card for your iMac (will you crickets STOP that d*** chirping?!?)

Maybe I've given you guys a bum rap. Why don't you just give me the URL of a supplier where I can buy Mac OS/10 to install on my PC (ok, that cricket chirping is getting SERIOUSLY annoying!!!!)

Microsoft may be annoying. Microsoft may engage in less than perfect business practices. But Microsoft is an O/S, they have nothing to do with the BUILDING of my computer, and they don't lock the system from upgrades. I can buy components off the shelf to build a PC, and honestly, the choice of whether to install Windows on that computer is entirely mine. Nobody forced me to do it. I CAN pick from several Linux distros. Yes, I might have to work harder to install them and make them functional, but that's part of exercising choice.

Those choices aren't widely available on a Mac. If Microsoft is the Devil, then Apple is certainly the devil's wetnurse, the evil she demon of an O/S and OEM monopoly combined. But since Mac has a piddly share of the market, nobody seems to give a rat's heinie.

184,144 views 89 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top

My UMAX S900 Mac clone which I bought to run BeOS came with Mac OS 8.

That doesn't belie Larry's statement...as there's no indication that OS8 was natively installed by the vendor [and thus OEM licenced]...

Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top

My response, as always, will be minimal. If you enjoy using Windows, then use Windows. If you enjoy using a Mac, then use a Mac. As long as you enjoy yourself what's it matter what others think?




Very true, BUT:

Lets face it, the only reason Apple is around is due to the iPod. They are their own worst enemy, charging nearly double what a PC would go for and its now LITERALLY the same hardware, they make you buy their hardware ONLY and their Windows equivalant Service Packs they also charge for.
Yeah sure, I've heard all the arguements, OS X IS VIRUS FREE! Please... anyone who know's anything about the OS knows that it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. No one wants to hack it because its worthless, people that hack PC's do it for the ego boost and lets face it the guy saying "I TOOK DOWN MICROSOFT.COM!!!" vs. "I TOOK DOWN APPLE.COM" - The guy who took down MS is going to get ALOT more attention than the guy who took down Apple.

Theirs also the gaming arguement. I can't even begin to count how many times I've heard OS X users now saying they can game on OS X by using Boot Camp to run XP!!! Wait a second.... WHAT??? They hate Windows so badly that the first thing they do is fire up Boot Camp and run XP? Whoa guys, a little hypocracy there? Some even had the nerve to argue that its not even a form of emulation, hahaha, man I guess owning a Mac does make you feel cool, you're in your own dream world so why couldn't you be the cool guy?

I have said it before and I'll say it again, calling Apple a competitor of Microsoft is like spitting in someones face. Apple is like a Fly on the back of an elephants ass, and no matter what it will do it'll never change.

EDIT:
A message to OS X users; Your right to bash Microsoft has been revoked. You will gain the right to bash MS once Apple actually codes its own kernal.

Pretty sad, they had to get a Unix kernal just to get an OS that wouldn't whipe your hard disk clean every other month. (GO GO GO OS X 9!!!!)
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow, you're an angry little tacker Asty! So much spite for what is, after all, just a company that makes pretty white boxes full of circuits and flashing lights.

There's no need to take it so personally with spontaneous CAPITALISATION and rather concerning use of multiple exclamation marks (which is incidentally a sure sign of encroaching mental illness, so you might want to head off to a friendly local GP to have a check-up).

I think you need to have a bit of a lie-down and relax. After all, we're not exactly talking 'the team from my city is superior to the team from your city' stuff here.

Let's just try and accept that every company in the history of the world likes monopolies. It's the most efficient way to extract cash from customers, so they're all going to be trying to get it. Apple's no better than Microsoft, sure, but even if you got rid of both of them there'd be someone else trying to corner the market.

At least Apple gives us shiny computers and Microsoft gives us the Gates Foundation and very pricey but very good software.
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top

After all, we're not exactly talking 'the team from my city is superior to the team from your city' stuff here.

We aren't?

Dang.....

Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mason,

I'm referring to the "plug and play" functionality where you can take it out of the box and be up and running with very little prerequisite knowledge. Linux is easy enough to handle, but it's not the system "your grandma could use".


Yeah, you're right. It's not like you have to install any drivers for new hardware or anything in Windows.
Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top
OMG Gid, I can't believe you took this shot! I think every uber geek web site from Tomshardware to Tech ARP has fought this fight.

But boy the flash backs in the replies! Remember Dr. DOS? Anyone remember VLB video cards?

Ya know just as a street level observation Apple just went after the wrong markets. Having so many kids (other topics) I spent a lot of time in schools. Apple targeted Elementary through High Schools. They never went after Colleges beyond Art and Graphic Design departments. And they never seriously went after business. Now before I'm flamed, let me reiterate, these are street level observations, not statistical analysis. I remember in the late 80's and early 90's noticing that High School offices were dumping their Macs and moving toward IBM PS2s. When I inquired as to why, most secretaries response was pretty much universal; "there are no real apple business programs" or "Apples are for design or entertainment".

I guess Apple's philosphy was if they indoctrinated the kids, kids would want Apples at home. And they did for a time, until the kids went to college where they and their professors realized business was favoring IBM Compatible (PCs for those of you too young to remember the PS1 and 2 series from IBM). Ergo, unless you were an Art major, you'd better get familiar with a PC pronto. And it trickled down from there. My youngest kids Elementary Schools dumped Apple about 5 years ago and redid their computer lab with Dell PCs.

The real turning point was when PC Graphics came of age. New chipsets propelled the game and design markets. That was the real end of Apple. But the bottom line is Interoperability. If I can't open a spreadsheet from my Hong Kong manufacurer because I use a different system, we don't do business well. One of us has to change. And I'm going to change to what the majority is using, so we can do business. I'm sorry Apple people, but running MS programs on a Mac isn't having an Apple, it's a virtual PC running Microsoft products.
Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Apple does'nt need to supply anyone else with rights to make their gear and why should they and what on earth makes you think they should ???..lmao,it was HP,DELL,IBM etc that signed up to microsofts idea of an industry standard that made pc's what they are today it could've quite easily have been different with all the comp manufacturers doing their own thing and at one time they were,next thing you'll be asking is why burger king can't be lisenced to make big macs.
Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top
So much for Suse. Too much automatic stuff I didn't like, back to good old Slackware for me.

As for the whole Mac vs Micro$oft thing (just to get back on topic) I don't care for either one. While Mac is a bit less buggy than Windows, it still limits the user far too much for my tastes.

I saw a great quote on bash.org the other day that gave me a great chuckle. It was basically "The hardest part about buying a Macbook is telling your parents you're gay".

I know, crude and inappropriate, and all that, but it was still funny.
Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let's just try and accept that every company in the history of the world likes monopolies. It's the most efficient way to extract cash from customers, so they're all going to be trying to get it. Apple's no better than Microsoft, sure, but even if you got rid of both of them there'd be someone else trying to corner the market.


gotta give you an insightful on that one, cacto.
Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yeah, you're right. It's not like you have to install any drivers for new hardware or anything in Windows.


yeah, but often the drivers are easier to find for Windows.

I'm just saying there are drawbacks to every O/S.

Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Let's just try and accept that every company in the history of the world likes monopolies.

Sweeping generalization, and fundamentally wrong....

not 'likes monopolies'...but perhaps 'would like to BE one'.... Spell checker

Some companies thrive on/through competition.

OK, so Apple [in their Ads] demonstrates their intent to be the eternal underdog...unable to promote their own product but relying on denigrating the 'product leader' instead.

Shows a pretty pathetic perception of both their own ability, AND their user-base.

 

Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
yeah, but often the drivers are easier to find for Windows.

I'm just saying there are drawbacks to every O/S.


I agree that every OS has it's pros and cons, but let's get real here. I've helped out people running Windoze who's hardware simply wouldn't work and had to spend time searching the web for driver downloads.

Nothing is perfect, but in the end you go with what you're most comfortable with and what works for you. For me that's Slackware Linux, for someone else it's Xp. Personally I find it far easier to configure and run hardware on a Slackware system than a Windows system.

But that's just me.
Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top
OK, so Apple [in their Ads] demonstrates their intent to be the eternal underdog...unable to promote their own product but relying on denigrating the 'product leader' instead.


Finally! Jafo, you've just explained how I've felt about the Mac ads since the first one I saw but couldn't find the words for. Thanks for giving me a succinct, concise way to explain exactly what I don't like about the new Mac ads.

Such a superiority complex. (And FYI, I currently own a 3 laptops - a Windows box (the one I use the most), an Ubuntu funbox (second most-often used) and a Mac (which all I use for is recording music - Garageband is, after all, a rocking product). But when all's said and done, eighty percent of my computer time is in front of my Windows box.)
Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nothing is perfect, but in the end you go with what you're most comfortable with and what works for you. For me that's Slackware Linux, for someone else it's Xp. Personally I find it far easier to configure and run hardware on a Slackware system than a Windows system.


I have to admit, I'm in a VERY ticked off mood with Windows Vista. Upgrade the O/S, sure, but why change the paths to various system tools just because you can? But what inspired this is, while I'm not crazy about MS, I HAVE choices; not so on Mac!
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top

That doesn't belie Larry's statement...as there's no indication that OS8 was natively installed by the vendor [and thus OEM licenced]...


In that case any statement could be true, as any evidence to the contrary could have been tampered with by whoever is trying to hide something.

The indication was, of course, that the Mac OS 8 CD that came with it was an OEM CD (it said so) and that the machine was sold with Mac OS 8 (and advertised as such).

But you can choose to believe what you like. An article that makes a claim or what I claim I saw that contradicted it. What is the article's author's proof?
Reply #67 from JoeUser Forums Top
http://www.everymac.com/systems/umax/s900/supermac_s900_233.html

Supported MacOS: 7.5.3-7.6.1, 8.0-9.0
MacOS versions beyond 8.1 are not officially supported by Apple.

The machine came with Mac OS 8.0 and ran anything up to Mac OS 9.0. (I stopped using it at that time.)
Reply #68 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yeah, you're right. It's not like you have to install any drivers for new hardware or anything in Windows.


Are you really trying to put me out of business?
Reply #69 from JoeUser Forums Top
(Citizen)NadeonMarch 24, 2007 21:05:49


WOW! Nailed it! Very good micro history of APple and bone head moves.
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
One thing Apple sells is confidence (on a larger scale they market is as a lifestyle.)
Quality control of the components that go into Macs is generally much higher than what goes for the average PC. I see Macs that are still running while being in use 24/7 for years. The average PC will usually have multiple hard-drive or power supply related failures in that time.
Yes Apple comes across as snobby and condescending, yes, they over price their components, but whenever someone I know buys a Mac, I always hear them say "It just does everything I want it to." In this area Apple has a real feel for what people want out of their computer.
The average Dell, HP, Gateway you buy comes with the smallest possible power supply they can get away with, a minimum of RAM, on-board graphics, and then the vendor loads it up with about a thousand crappy things running at start up that you don't even want!
This includes some trial version of Norton that takes over you system eating up what few resources weren't already being used by the other crap. (The first thing I do with a new Dell is uninstall all that crap, or even wipe it and do a clean install.)

And OSX is real purty too !
Reply #71 from JoeUser Forums Top
The average Dell, HP, Gateway you buy comes with the smallest possible power supply they can get away with, a minimum of RAM, on-board graphics, and then the vendor loads it up with about a thousand crappy things running at start up that you don't even want!
This includes some trial version of Norton that takes over you system eating up what few resources weren't already being used by the other crap. (The first thing I do with a new Dell is uninstall all that crap, or even wipe it and do a clean install.)


Yeah, which is why custom builds are best.

I found out just how pitifully small Dell power supplies can be when researching for power supplies for my case mod. I can get a substantial discount on Dell components, so I checked out their desktop form factor PS, and found it is only 160 watt. There's NO WAY I'm putting THAT PS on my motherboard. I would power it externally first (something I haven't entirely ruled out).

But, see, I want to make the decision on the components in my computer, not some manufacturer somewhere else. And it is on that point that Mac loses me (that and affordability...I believe everyone should be able to access the Internet, and Mac is NOT working to make that happen!). I like "resurrecting" old machines with parts from other machines, and Mac again doesn't give me that opportunity.

Which actually kind of pisses me off, as I WOULD like to be more familiar with Mac, frankly.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Which actually kind of pisses me off, as I WOULD like to be more familiar with Mac, frankly.


That's what I've been doing lately. I have about 17 Macs to support, and about 200 PCs. Thankfully the Macs have been mostly trouble free, but when they do need something I've been very frustrated that to my PC way of thinking, nothing is where it should be or works the way I expect it to! (When I right-click there should be a context menu, dammit!)
Usually I end up getting help from the guy who is more-or-less the Mac expert, but he doesn't always have the time to stop his other projects. I finally loaded OSX on an old G4, got a copy of OSX Hacks (OReilly press) and started poking around.
Once you start to get a feel for it, the OS does have a logic to it. I've already been able to fix a couple minor Mac issues this week that I previously would have had to get help on.
Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Note: apparently there is no Mac-friendly FTP client out there.
At least once every week or two I get a call saying that one of our customers can't connect to our FTP server.
I call them and ask: "So, are you using a Mac to try and connect?"
Them: "Yes, how did you know?"
Me: "Just a lucky guess. Does anyone in your office have a PC they can send this from?"
If the answer is yes, they files usually appear in no time.
Reply #74 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've seen a few comments that Macs are 'overpriced.' Maybe for your purposes they are, but you're forgetting that a significant appeal of Apple products is their aesthetic, and ease of use.

Before the iPod, Apple was just a small and far from mainstream company. When mp3 players started to come out, there was essentially a level playing field. Archos, iRiver, Creative had mp3 players out a few years before the iPod, yet as we can see, they never were able to hold the market. Why? I had an early 20GB Archos mp3 player that even played video. I can say the thing was a pain in the ass. The screen was small, there were a bunch of unmarked buttons. It was thick and heavy. But that's what they were back then. Apple came along and took existing technology and ideas, simplified the interface, thoughtfully laid out the buttons, and made it sleek and 'pretty.' That kind of innovation doesn't come along with out a huge backend, and thus, a steeper price.

What I respect about Apple is their commitment to 'form follows function,' but also not forgetting the form itself. PC manufacturers followed that mantra as well, but dropped the form off completely. From the product itself, to the packaging, to the advertising campaigns, Apple thinks about each step and provides a whole experience, which doesn't come without a price.

Of course, there are those of us who don't care about having 'pretty' things and we want to load our computers with all sorts of neat programs, and put LEDs in our PC cases with 500 video cards. That's fine, but there are also people who just want a simple, easy to use and good looking product, despite that it comes at a premium cost.

Why people get so worked up about software and hardware I don't know, but just remember that people have different priorities and different needs for certain products. It's awfully arrogant to say PC is better than Mac, or vice versa. And while Apple and Microsoft might not be the most ethical companies, shopping based on ethics will force you to go naked and homeless.
Reply #75 from JoeUser Forums Top
but you're forgetting that a significant appeal of Apple products is their aesthetic, and ease of use


ease of use of Macs is a myth. How many programs WON'T run on a Mac? I don't call it "ease of use" when you have to throw half your software away.

Before the iPod, Apple was just a small and far from mainstream company.


Apparently you weren't around in the 80's. Apple was king back then.

My beef is actually that I would LIKE to try out Mac's operating system. But since I can't do it without buying their hardware, it ain't going to happen. Mac controls everything from that first chip to the finished product, and that disturbs me. Very few other companies do this. Your TV usually has components from various manufacturers, as does your car and virtually every product you own...except Macintosh computers. Now their recent change to Intel based processors may change that, but even so, they'll be late to the game.