But at least they're more "pleasing" to the "eye" than a "spattering" of "fly specks" as "far" as the "eye" can "see". I know they're shouting, but most of the time you seem so passionate about whatever you're saying you seem like you're yelling anyway . . .

But that's neither here nor there on Draginol's thread.

Sorry for the hijack.

I never pay that much for ground beef, period!

LOL. Yes. We have. Not in those words, but yes, we have.

Drmiler is drmiler. You just gotta let it go cause he's not going to bother. Haha.

Re: ground beef

I pay $2.38/lb. for 93% lean here in HI. Of course we never eat an entire lb. at a meal, and in fact I don't eat ground beef at all.

I do use bottled water, though. I have big 'ol jugs of it delivered to my house for my water cooler. I don't have a problem with tap but both the kids and I drink more water with the cooler.

Your going to filter water? Lol. Doesn't your city do that for you?

I only need to come here once or twice a week to laugh my ass off.

Yeah, before they add boatloads of chemicals to it. Personally, I'm not a big fan of drinking bleach!

Laugh away, Dan. I guess this proves even morons need entertainment!

I am amazed that otherwise smart and educated sounding people would be so silly as to drink unfiltered tap water (much less shower in it). Even a minor in googlefu can tell you that ain't a very good idea.

http://www.bidness.com/esd/showering.htm

Don't confuse Dan with smart or educated sounding. He'll correct you. He went on a long diatribe against me when I made that accusation!

What do you mean? Like most rational people, I am waiting to get super powers from it.

Oh, and I haven't seen ground beef for $1.66 a pound for a decade, what are you buying Regurgitated ground beef? I never pay that much for ground beef, period!

No, I buy it in a 3lb pack at Shop and Save. They have a meat deal where you buy 5 packages of meat for 19.99. The selection varies, but ground beef is usually one of them as is chicken.

Has anyone ever told you, Miller, that your use of quotation marks for emphasis is one of the most annoying methods in the world to highlight your points? LOL. Yes. We have. Not in those words, but yes, we have. Drmiler is drmiler. You just gotta let it go cause he's not going to bother. Haha. Re: ground beef I pay $2.38/lb. for 93% lean here in HI. Of course we never eat an entire lb. at a meal, and in fact I don't eat ground beef at all.

That's mostly attributed to where you live. HI ain't a cheap place to live. Just be glad you don't live in Japan.

And you've also yelled at me when I was using caps for emphasis.

I'm sure they have . . . we're never content, are we.

I thought we were discussing socialism and capitalism, but Brad thinks its ok to talk about water for a bit. The price of a liter of bottled water is more then that of gasoline, and though perhaps more pure then tap water. What exactly is in the tap water that puts you off so much besides taste if that is even it?

The community I live in has spent millions to procure a very advanced clean and safe water filtration system. Granted thats what they say, and the water comes from a waterway connected directly to the fox river which is a super fund site, and those reasons go hand in hand.

For whoever said, tap was bleach is just silly. It all depends on the concentration of the liquid and the chlorine in the water. Even a D+ chemistry student like myself can tell you that. Bleach has hundreds if not thousands of times the concentration of chlorine and even that is only about 3% chlorine when sold as "Chlorox"

As for lead, yeah lead is bad but most people don't have lead in their water, they have high levels of copper or other heavy metals, from their pipes perhaps. Or well water. I'm sure bottled water is a great thing for lots of people but if you have tap readily available and its safe, and it tastes good lol, then filter away, but you are buying luxury water not safer water.

Marketing like "Sparkling" "Fresh" "Aqua" "Refreshing" "Natural" "Spring" = fluff.

And you've also yelled at me when I was using caps for emphasis. I'm sure they have . . . we're never content, are we.

Nope!

And just an FYI....using quotation marks for emphsis is what I was taught in school.

I think what bugs people is it's an incorrect/unusual usage. Typically when you see words lit up with quotation marks, it indicates sarcasm. It often means that the author means the OPPOSITE of what they've enclosed between the quotation marks.

I've never seen any grammar or English text book suggest that quotation marks be used for emphasis. Feel free to correct me; that's just my experience.

I don't use perfect punctuation or grammar, either.

I don't have a problem with people using caps for emphasis (see above). I think previously you said that it was not comfortable for you physically to emphasize any other way. I totally accept that.

For whoever said, tap was bleach is just silly. It all depends on the concentration of the liquid and the chlorine in the water. Even a D+ chemistry student like myself can tell you that. Bleach has hundreds if not thousands of times the concentration of chlorine and even that is only about 3% chlorine when sold as "Chlorox"

Bleach is used figuratively. Chlorine even in tiny concentrations is fairly harmful. What people need to consider are the VOCs generated from Chlorine treatment (Volitile Organic Compounds). Those are largely carcinogenic and show up in increasing numbers in Tap Water. As our groundwater becomes more unsuitable for drinking water treatment they have to increase blends of Chlorine which is an escalating scale requiring the government to annually increase standards. The resulting chlorine content and subsequent VOC compound increases add to the carcinogenic factors in water.

I'm sure bottled water is a great thing for lots of people but if you have tap readily available and its safe, and it tastes good lol, then filter away, but you are buying luxury water not safer water.

How do you quantify what is "Safe" tap water? Have you read your local water purification division yearly toxicity reports? Those reports are required by law to be posted on the internet, almost nobody reads them because if they did, they wouldn't drink the water without SOME form of treatment. At the very least, everyone should have a higher volumn 0.2 micron carbon filter at the inlet for their home. A simple device, selling for less than $150 on the internet, installed by any plumber or handyman.

http://www.pwgazette.com/wh.htm

That's the unit we have, it is about 3 feet tall (which you can't see in the picture). We use that at the inlet for the home so every tap in the house has filtered water. For drinking/baby formula/cooking we have a reverse osmosis system in the kitchen.

That's the unit we have, it is about 3 feet tall (which you can't see in the picture). We use that at the inlet for the home so every tap in the house has filtered water. For drinking/baby formula/cooking we have a reverse osmosis system in the kitchen.

Again with the money. How many people could afford that unit let alone afford the plumber to put it in or the replacement cartridges? Or for that matter the reverse osmosis system Then tack on the price (again) for plumber to install "and" for replacement cartridges And an FYI....all that first one is, is a "carbon filter" which LW suggested ealier. But I didn't hear you say anything positive about her idea then.

What was said earlier was dead on. You're nothing but a stuck up snob.

I find the quotes MUCH less annoying than the CAPS, plus using CAPS would bring you TOO close to the COL's posts. Especially WHEN they show UP in seemingly random SPOTS.

Gee! You just summerized Col's last 100 articles in one sentence.

Bold! Friend to the friendless!

Italic! Lover of the loveless!

These both look better and more effective and less sarcastic than "quotes", and less yelly than CAPS.

I'm not suggesting you drink bleach. I consider the drinking water from my tap safe unless told otherwise by public officials. As for Cl content, the concentrations used, are used to kill bacteria, and if they were used in such high levels as to harm mammals, then I would be concerned, yet they are not.

I have kept tropical fish, which are perhaps hundreds of times as sensitive to Cl levels in water as people are. In the summer, which is when Cl levels are highest, they can become slightly twitchy when you add new water, if untreated, because they are intimately confined in their water environment. However the CL evaporates from the water very quickly if allowed to sit, or stir, and someone had mentioned that freezing and then allowing their water to thaw and then re-freezing it, will eliminate the taste.

The Cl evaporates during the thawing process or in any standing, faster then water, because it is a gas at room temperature. Anyway to remove heavy metals though you have to filter your water. That is the only case in which I would purchase bottled water in order to assure its safety. Living in a city though I think the danger level is much lower then assumed by the blogging and online community.

No longer do we suffer from malaria, dysentery, cholera, or any other major medical disease from contaminated water. Today your worst risk of bacterial infection is cryptosproidium or ecoli. Ecoli is more likely to kill you from uncooked meat products then your water.

I guess if this place were a tad more welcoming to people who weren't assholes on the much, then the resident water treatment guy or gal who used to post here, would be better able to post some rebuttals and clear up some misinformation about making water safe to drink.

Right. The government NEVER lies to us!

Here's a tip, Dan: when you can SMELL the chlorine, there's probably too much in the water supply.

In our community it is quite probable they are using the chlorine to cover some nasties. They are consistently in violation of testing regulations that are required of municipalities, and it will not be long before someone holds their feet to the fire.

Some of the older people in the community are suffering the same sets of suspect systems, and their doctors are advising them that they believe a parasite to be responsible. These doctors have been telling their patients to boil the water, even though the city has not issued such an advisory. Now who am I going to trust: a doctor, who is seeing a pattern of symptoms consistent with parasites, or a municipal government that's not testing the water supply? Seems a no brainer here.

I do realize you know everything, Dan, and I wouldn't DARE cross the omniscient Dan Greene. After all, your name does show up among the preeminent scientists in every field, right?

"I do realize you know everything, Dan, and I wouldn't DARE cross the omniscient Dan Greene. After all, your name does show up among the preeminent scientists in every field, right?"

Trolling.

"Now who am I going to trust: a doctor, who is seeing a pattern of symptoms consistent with parasites, or a municipal government that's not testing the water supply? Seems a no brainer here."

Trolling.

I don't live in a dump Gid, but I do live in an area where the tap water comes from a super fund river site. As for how you view your potable water supply, I expect someone like you to not be concerned about what the water contains at all in lieu of health risks, but then I am surprised daily.

Again with the money. How many people could afford that unit let alone afford the plumber to put it in or the replacement cartridges? Or for that matter the reverse osmosis system Then tack on the price (again) for plumber to install "and" for replacement cartridges And an FYI....all that first one is, is a "carbon filter" which LW suggested ealier. But I didn't hear you say anything positive about her idea then.

$150 plus a few bucks for a handyman isn't much. RO units can run as low as $99, and anyone with a screwdriver and drill can install one of those. Cartridges aren't much, $100 a year for both combined. LW suggested a basic carbon filter, which is very different from the one I mention. The one we use is a .2 micro 2 stage high density straged-carbon that removes vastly more than a basic brita-style carbon filter. Over the long term, Brita's will cost substantially more than an installed filtration system and Brita won't do anything about the chlorine coming from your shower. Which I might add has some substantial long term cumulative health implications.

What was said earlier was dead on. You're nothing but a stuck up snob.

No, I just know a *LOT* about water.

I'm not suggesting you drink bleach. I consider the drinking water from my tap safe unless told otherwise by public officials.

Yes, like how rushed out and told you smoking was harmful - 55 years too late. Or how they discovered Vioxx killed up to 150,000 people - about 10 years too late, etc. Bottom line is, there are much safer methods of water treatment than Chlorine(and subseqent forms of it), but the Chemical Lobby is powerful, and Chlorine is the cheapest method. What few people realize is that while Chlorine itself is toxic, the VOC's that arrive at your tap as a byproduct of Chlorine interacting with organic compounds are very carcinogenic.

No longer do we suffer from malaria, dysentery, cholera, or any other major medical disease from contaminated water.

No but we have heart disease, kidney disease, increasing cancer rates, fluorsis, degenerative bone diseases, and other issues as a direct result of water treatment. Lets not forget Chlorine does little to remove Giardia Cysts and Cryptosporidium, which can be in contents of close to 1%-3% in many municipalities. (which cause symptoms Gideon mentions above) Both of which cause stomach ailments and worse. Nobody in this household has had Diarrhea - ever, yet I constantly here of people we know that drink tap water that have stomach ailments or diarrhea. (seems like monthly) I'd guess a direct result from cysts, parasites, and VOC contaminents in tap water.

Bottom line, read your local municipality water quality reports, make your own informed decision not based on the "Perception" the water is safe, but based on facts. The government cannot acknowledge openly that the water isn't good for you because there would be a huge public furor over it. Quietly they elbow each other and wink, and whisper about how shitty their water is while posting glowing reports about how good our water is to you joepublic. If you choose to believe this without examining the evidence yourself, then there is little anyone can do to convince you otherwise.

"No but we have heart disease, kidney disease, increasing cancer rates, fluorsis, degenerative bone diseases, and other issues as a direct result of water treatment."

Life expectancies climbing every year, inspite of this awful city water lol.

"The government cannot acknowledge openly that the water isn't good for you because there would be a huge public furor over it."

That's because that would be bullshit. But if you aren't buying premium then you aren't living right? Right?

"If you choose to believe this without examining the evidence yourself, then there is little anyone can do to convince you otherwise."

I'm only a D chemistry student and while I agree Cl is dangerous, toxic in fact, so is water, but only in high concentrations, and the same goes for Cl, although the CL is dangerous at much lower concentrations then water can be. The problem with consuming too much water is that it can drop your sodium/salt levels to dangerous levels, its why they hydrate people slowly who are de-hydrated.

I'll stand by my statement that anything is dangerous/toxic/can kill you, in the right concentrations and situations. As for processed city water, we've been drinking it for dozens of years, and water processed in one way or another since BC times, and yet life expectancies and medical advances extending life continue to keep us around longer. If city water was so bad for you, i.e. causing cancer which I think is almost total bullshit, then the city/county government would ask you to not drink water for their tap.

I drink soda mostly anyway, which has a ph closer to battery acid then tap water, so I guess I'm going to die.

Ha.

If you are going to use ignorance as your evidentiary technique then by all means, have at it. But don't for a minute think you can cloud the judgement of people around you into following that ridiculous thought pattern. I've offered a wealth of evidence to support my claims, you offer only conjecture and anecdotal nonsense. Next time try a bit harder to substantiate your argument if you want to keep any shred of credibility.

I will leave you with one final publication that you'll find impossible to refute, andI hope others will take at least a cursory read of;

http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/findings.php

if you want to search for your particular state, and all data pertaining to that water, feel free to check here;

http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/statereports/

I think you'll be surprised to find just how toxic your local tap water is.