I'm curious as to why you would choose to not vaccinate your children with the seriousness of the risks associated with that condition and the vastly increased chance of contracting illness.

I mean it is your decision, but what exactly drove you to reach that decision as the correct one?

Dan, yes, ONE. If you are private pay or medicaid you HAVE NO CHOICE in this community. In fact, when our youngest was born, two and a half weeks ago, we weren't sure he would be able to see a doctor before he was six weeks of age because the ONLY doctor who takes private pay patients wouldn't see them until they were six weeks of age. And this doctor only came to the area two months ago. Fortunately, the new pediatrician came to town and started YESTERDAY...our son was one of the first patients he saw.



We didn't have a CHOICE, Dan. This wasn't our doctor; we took our child to the hospital because of a high fever and the ON CALL pediatrician started all of this shit.

It wasn't until MUCH later that I realized how normal this actually is.

As to the issue of homeschooling, you'd be surprised, Dan. If we didn't have the legal help of the HSLDA, we'd be in pretty dire straits right now. I'm currently building a defamation of character case against several school board members who, when they realized they couldn't force our children into the schools, resorted to pretty severe slander (including TWICE filing false reports, that were quickly disproven).

You have NO IDEA how much prejudice homeschooling parents still face in this country, Dan, because you aren't there. If you want to have an idea how many false reports are filed with CPS every year, all you have to do is a little research. You can start with the sidebar on my blog; I've already done the homework for you, basically.

Several things, Dan. For one, I do not automatically buy the government's lie that everything they say is "good for you".

I believe vaccinations hinder the development of a healthy immune system. While they may have had a good genesis, the fact is, we're OVER vaccinating kids. I do not know one individual, for instance, who died from chicken pox, and cannot find a single solid case of someone who wasn't very young, very old, or didn't already have a compromised immune system dying from chicken pox. Yet the vaccine is mandatory in most states.

The reasons we don't vaccinate could fill several articles, but this is part of it.

"Several things, Dan. For one, I do not automatically buy the government's lie that everything they say is "good for you"."

That makes two of us and in fact that goes double for the media. I didn't make the statement or allude to an everything is good for you attitude by the governent either.

I do understand there to be very serious including lethal risks in not vaccinating children. I would expect that a child in school would be very likely to acquire something in their years of exposure to all sorts of diseases that if they didn't have an immune response already developed and that in conjunction with something so little as a cold or influenza that you could already have that "compromised immune system" you speak of, and that would lead to a major medical condition. I do note also however, a reduction in risk might occur in having fewer instances of contact with other children because of home schooling.

"the ONLY doctor who takes private pay patients wouldn't see them until they were six weeks of age. And this doctor only came to the area two months ago."

Then you need to transit to an area with more choice in medical professionals. Why exactly is it that the doctor only takes patients six weeks of age or more? That distinction sounds silly to me. I'm not exactly a parent but its the first I've heard of it.

"I'm currently building a defamation of character case against several school board members who, when they realized they couldn't force our children into the schools, resorted to pretty severe slander (including TWICE filing false reports, that were quickly disproven)."

Excellent. I hope you and your lawyer teach them a lesson for their bad behavior. If slander is all they can come up with, law enforcement will issue anyone a citation for filing false reports. You should have them involved if they don't have it on record already. Especially if these are repeat offenders. That is if those reports were disproven as you say.

"You have NO IDEA how much prejudice homeschooling parents still face in this country, Dan, because you aren't there."

Absolutely right. I have none, I'm not a parent, and though I fully support home schooling, I have no idea what is involved or how to go about it or the B.S. parents endure making that sacrifice for their kids. I respect you for that. I would also expect you to encounter the average situation experienced by anyone different or not "going with the flow", right or wrong, it happens.

I'm seeing your perspective about how medical professionals can cause people problems but nothing directly involving the question about guns. Do you think that in any of your instances that if your children, if teenagers, had been asked about guns in the house, that you would have had an issue to deal with above and beyond your other issues?

Your on call pediatrician, may be an ass hat at the hospital. Unfortunately you cannot always expect to receive the most understanding service from each and every member of society. People choose to be a grab bag of good or bad. They also makes mistakes. If that doctors intent was malicious or improper you have your recourses. Your other option is to not provide medical treatment for your kids. Obviously few are going to choose that, but the real choice is having kids or not having kids.

When you have children, right or wrong, good or bad, the responsibility to deal with whatever load of b.s. out there in the world becomes yours. Are we agreed in that notion?

"You have NO IDEA how much prejudice homeschooling parents still face in this country, Dan, because you aren't there. If you want to have an idea how many false reports are filed with CPS every year, all you have to do is a little research. You can start with the sidebar on my blog; I've already done the homework for you, basically."

I'll be happy to read on any subject you have posted that you would like me to look at, once you apologize to me for insulting me, by telling me I disgust you without giving me a cause. Also this statement here...

"Ironic that questioning an Islamic terrorist in Gitmo is a violation of Constitutional rights, but grilling a child without a lawyer present is simply in the best interests of the child."

Is rather inflammatory and you certainly misrepresented my defense of the rights of people in both circumstances I think. No?

"Whether a parent has a gun is NOT a medical question."

Not the Question asked. The question asked is are there guns in the house. If every gun in every house was known to parents that would be great. Unfortunately parents house often house adult offspring who struggle to make it on their own.

A larger and larger percentage single 20 somethings live at home or have moved back in in order to survive with a meager income and try to set their lives up for success.

What is to say these 20 somethings aren't also dangerous or careless, leaving a unlocked gun in the home that the parent doesn't know about but a sibling does?

Plenty of circumstances where danger isn't from parents.

I don't believe I have defended a doctors right to ask any questions, I just merely stated that anything asked and learned must remain in medical confidence until it does become a law enforcement issue. I also offered alternative perspectives on how to look at the situation. Rather then a invasion of privacy more of a precautionary inquiry for risk factors.

I'm not saying I'm wholly right, as Gid had pointed out there are plenty of opportunities for exploitation by unscruplous people at any level of any authority.

"Whether a parent has a gun is NOT a medical question." Not the Question asked. The question asked is are there guns in the house

Now you're talking semantics. Parent owning a gun versus is there a gun in the house. If it's in the house, who does it belong to, the kids? Then it more than likely belongs to the parents and goes back to the original point that the doctor has no right to even ask the question unless there is a history of child abuse. If there is then the law gets involved. Your 20 something doesn't fly real well. How many parents have a 20 something child living at home along with a 13 year old child (minimum of 7 years apart)? Numbers pretty small I'd be willing to bet. And not a large enough number to make it an issue for the doc to ask about.

And just in case you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a 2nd amendment freak.

"Then that comes down to is, it isn't the "doctors" decision to ask "any" more questions about it. Once a child has stated they're being abused, it's out of the doctors hands. He is "required" by law to turn the question/answer period over to law enforcement. As a matter of fact, him asking questions the wrong way could/would jeopardize the entire investigation. So like I said the "doctor" should not be asking that question at all." Are you a doctor Dr.Miller or do you just play on on the forums?

And while I'm thinking about it, just "how" is this question germaine to the discussion at hand?

Actually, that seems to be the consistent "liberal" position as of late. I've gotten a lot of flack just for daring QUESTION CPS, and when I refused to allow them to enter my home, you'd have thought I had confessed to the Kennedy assassination.

The truth is, and why I took offense to your original position, we MUST protect ALL of the Bill of Rights, or we must SURRENDER them all. Either/or. Frankly, I'm no fan of guns, but I defend the right of free citizens to own them. because the founding fathers weren't concerned about the rights of duck hunters.



That's why I have a problem with anonymous reporting, Dan. Unless we can come up with a pattern, CPS will not turn the names of false reporters over to law enforcement. If you look closely, while there are laws against false reporting, they are VERY rarely enforced as applies to CPS. If they were enforced more, false reports would certainly drop.



I've looked at the research, and I firmly believe the risks to be highly overstated.



There are solutions, and then there are practical solutions, Dan. You go where the work is.

Yup.

It's nice to have all the answers when you aren't in someone else's shoes, I guess!

"Whether a parent has a gun is NOT a medical question." Not the Question asked. The question asked is are there guns in the house

You're correct. That was "not" the question asked. However the one that WAS asked isn't a medical question either. Or can you explain to me how having guns in the house relates to a "medical" exam?

I loved to play with lawn darts when I was a kid. You can't get them anymore, though. Sharp things are dangerous, we aren't allowed to have them. Isn't it nice to live in a big day care center?

me too. You can't get them anymore? Didn't know that. Bummer.

We are headed back to bondage. Oh well it was nice while it lasted but look it's been over 200 years. What else could we expect? We started out fleeing from bondage and are almost exactly back where we started from.

I think I still have some of those around...although they're not exactly sharp...at all. Oh well, I'll just find some other pointy metal things to play with.

I hate how everything is child safe these days...it limits natural selection. I kid, I kid...or do I?

~Zoo

Sounds kinky.

Not coming from KFC, it doesn't... LOL

hahahahah....I'll have you know....nevermind....lol.

Geez, the bold is busted on this thread of yours, KFC . . . fixed it for ya again.

thanks SC....I know I can always count on you.

Yur a good egg!

gee gid,,,sure is a change of heart to how you replied to me on the subject just a short time ago...glad to see your mind has been changed...

Reply By: Gideon MacLeish Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006
George Bush's motto seems to be "if it's good enough for Abe Lincoln, it's good enough for me"!

this, in response to my article about habeas corpus rights being eliminated by bush...WWW Link

Sean,

How was that any different. My point was, and is, that Bush was NOT the first president to do that. I was referencing the fact that Abraham Lincoln did the very same thing, yet we lionize him!

"consistent "liberal" position as of late."

I'm not a liberal, I'm a person.

"we MUST protect ALL of the Bill of Rights"

Agree.

"CPS will not turn the names of false reporters over to law enforcement." Well there ought to be a law and there is a system in place to get a law passed in regards to this situation.

"I've looked at the research, and I firmly believe the risks to be highly overstated."

Which risks? The potential risks of vaccinating or the sure risks of not vaccinating?

The whole reason vaccines exist are to prevent acquiring something that vaccines prevent, a disease, a medical condition, while not lethal down the road combined with something as severe as a common cold can lead to death or very serious hospitalization. It is of course your decision I just asked what the facts were in reaching it.

"You're correct. That was "not" the question asked. However the one that WAS asked isn't a medical question either. Or can you explain to me how having guns in the house relates to a "medical" exam?"

I cannot. I just thought that if it saves one life because it is asked, and nobody else is irreparably harmed by it, then so be it. Lets see if we can't split a few more hairs here on this topic.

You guys think it's unconstitutional to ask about guns in the dr. office? I agree, but until it's challenged because someone was accused of wrongful doing and challenged that and won in a supreme court somewhere, if the question is helpful in starting the dialogs the parents of children, and young adults, may benefit from having it covered.

"There are solutions, and then there are practical solutions, Dan. You go where the work is."

I didn't say move, I said transit, commute, if there are not medical professionals in your area, unless you live in the middle of a ocean on the azores, you have an ever plenty increasing level of options with each expanding concentric circle of distance. Thirty minutes away, sixty, ninety. If your privacy and care of your children is of top concern I'm not sure but I would assume distance and time traveled isn't of the same concern or would I be wrong?

"And while I'm thinking about it, just "how" is this question germaine to the discussion at hand?"

I thought that if you were a medical professional you might have a unique insight that the rest of us do not. I.e. working in a workplace where you can be sued for your actions more then once a day, having to constantly adjust your practice to the wishes rather then the needs of your patients, that sort of thing.

So how about you just answer yes or no to the question?

Are you a doctor, in the medical professional sense, of the word, doctor?

not as i read it in the context of that discussion. in the reply you gave me, it seemed that you were praising the administration for making a move , that in your view, was parallel to lincoln's.

in this discussion you are clearly criticizing the move to suspend habeas corpus rights. you use bush's suspension of those rights, not as a favorable comparison to lincoln, but as a very unfavorable comparison towards the nazi's and soviets.

if you want to defend the 2 statements as "saying the same thing" feel free, but it's hardly the truth.

but regardless, i'm glad that at least now, on this issue, you have clearly seen the light and agree with what i wrote in october of last year.