Competing (?) product - another presedential campaign game

Has anyone ever heard of this one:

http://www.presidentforever.com/

There's a demo available.
Time to start hypeing the Political Machine


17,819 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top
I have that.
Reply #2 Top
I have it, as well. It is an excellent game and after playing it I almost dread messing with The Political Machine now, as TPM is much less understandable, though graphically superior.
Reply #3 Top
Jeff George: What are some of the items that you feel PF out performs TPM on? I've booted up President Forever several times, and feel the game is difficult to get into due to an over-complexity (IMHO) of the interface. When presenting information (and in this genre there's ALOT of info to provide) it becomes tempting to display every available stat to the player..who, unless they're a hardcore political junkie, will become overwhelmed with all this extra data. I say this, not to knock the game (I've had games I've worked on belittled...it's not fun ) but to point out a difference between the two games. PF lets you get into the nitty gritty of things....the data is all there to mess with, even if the casual gamer wont quite understand the implications. In TPM, on the other hand, we tried to simpliy and steamline the whole process, hopefully making a game that political junkies AND mainstream players can easilly get into.

I don't know what category of political gamer you fall into (harcore or casual), but you definatly sound like a fan of this style of game. What changes do you think could we make to advance TPM's goal of 'fun for both ends of the spectrum'?


-Links-
'President Forever' Site
'The Political Machine' Site
Reply #4 Top

I've played PF before and it has similar game mechanics from an overall point of view.

I think The Political Machine could use more specifics in terms of what units do.

Having given this some though ttoday here are some examples:

1) The advertisement screen doesn't ever explain what the difference between the difference types of ads. We need to have a place on the screen that displays what the ads do (example):

TV ads: +/- 2 points to your position on a given issue + 2% change each week + 2% change in awareness in the state and 1% each week in awareness in adjacent states.

Should also say something like "lower's candidate's appeal with Democrats" instead of "lowers democrat appeal" which is vague. Or better yet Raises your appeal with Democrats. And when you target opponent it should say "Lowers opponent's appeal with Democrats".

2) Same thing when you make a campaign speech. No information is given about what they dy.

3) Units should have a "details" button that brings up their screen which explains what they do.

4) The fund raising screen should display how many times you've fund raised that state since that greatly affects how much money you'll get from that state.

5) Campaign HQ needs to be more clear too. Example: Level 1 HQ raises your awareness in state by +1% per week. Level 2 does +2% per week and +1% to adjacent states. And level 3 does 4% per week and 2% in adjacent states.

6) State details screen needs an area that shows why one player is winning.

Key factors that need to be shown: Population that is Dem, Rep, and Indie. Your awareness vs. Opponent Awareness. And your points on the various issues vs. his points.

Reply #5 Top
I have played both, and have no doubt that the dream game is somewhere in the middle. PF does significantly better at making the player feel like the issues really matter. I don't mean to pretend to be an expert on marketing, but it seems to me that people who don't care about political issues will not be buying any political game, and those that do care about political issues will want to hear that they are beating up their opponent on abortion, that their opponent is beating them up on defense, and that some event has made the public care more about social security.

I really think that 1) the info that now shows up in exit polling needs to be available during the campaign, 2) it needs to be important, and 3) it needs to be made fun -- probably through newspaper reports that are worded in ways to make the player gloat or seethe.
Reply #6 Top

The Political Machine does model those things. The problem IMO is that it doesn't display this clearly enough to the player.

The status screen isn't in yet which will come up every game month (every 4 turns) letting you know which isues people are really getting riled up about and what each campaign has done.

The mechanics are fairly straight forward:

You have awareness which is the % of people who have heard of you.

You then have your position on a given issue: 0 means you're neutral. - points means you're against it and positive points you're for it. The higher your points in any direction the more aware people are of your position on that.

Meanwhile, the people in the various states have the same thing based on their political persuasion (Democrats, Republicans, and Indies). - means they're against it + means they're for it and the higher the number in either direction the more they care abou tit.

When you take out advertisements on a given issue, you do the following: You add an immediate point out (+1, +2, or +3 based on the ad in the state but with radio and TV ads giving a bonus value nationally) to your position on the issue plus a % each weak adjustment to it.

So if both candidates have 100% awareness at the end of the game you then go down on each issue and count up the points.

i.e. let's use Michigan and Abortion Rights.

Democrats in Michigan: +15 on Abortion Rights

Republicans in Michigan: -12 on Abortion Rights

Indies in Michigan: +2 on Abortion Rights

Bob Republican's position: -4 on Abortion Rights

Joe Democrat's position: +3 on Abortion Rights

And finally in Michigan 42% of people are Democrats, 33% are Republicans and 25% are Independents (making this up for this example).

So you then multiplay these various factions together and end up with a score on each. The bigger the difference in scores, the bigger the lead.

Reply #7 Top
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have a copy of the rules printed from the game page and it sounds really good and having it explained makes it all the better.
Reply #8 Top
Frogboy, the explanation sounds reassuring, but I don't think that that is the way the game feels to the player.

As an experiment, I turned up the difficulty level to the highest (masochistic) and followed this strategy:
* In the early weeks, I simply went around setting up outpost headquarters in a massive number of states, stopping only for fundraising and a few tv appearances (most of which went badly)... By the end of this stage, I had a very solid national lead
* When this was completed -- maybe 40% of the way through the campaign -- I bought two national endorsements -- defense and environment
* I then went to Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, California, New Jersey, etc. and bought a spin doctor, since these were all in the +3 to -3% range
At this point, I had an insurmountable national lead, but finished it off by simply flying around to states, stealing a few more small ones and cementing a couple big ones where my lead was "only" 5-10%.
I NEVER CAMPAIGNED ON ANY ISSUE, AND I NEVER PLACED ANY AD -- thus, I gained a big lead at the highest level with absolutely no attention to issues, and I won a landslide with just two endorsements and no other attention to issues, other than TV shows which went badly at least half the time.


Reply #9 Top
I follow a similar strategy on masochistic, although I usually buy a lot of consultants to raise my awareness in battleground states. Toward the end of the campaign I buy smear merchants (?) to lower my opponent's ratings.

I do take out a few ads, usually on jobs. That seems to be an issue that one can always camapign about and receive good results. But mostly I generate and spend political capital.

I understand the AI is not finished yet, but as it stands issues are of minor importance because political operatives are so much more powerful.

Oh, another issue. The total spent on a campaign is unusually low. I'd suggest multiplying all monentary values by 5. Spending $20 million on a presidential campaign is nothing, and the $13 million in the above budget is ridiculously low. Budgets usually go much higher than that. (I'd suggest 10 but in one game my opponent spent 40 million. Multiplying that by 10 would be $400 million, and that is way beyond what is normally spent on becoming president).

--Aaron

Reply #10 Top

The issues DO matter becaue the operatives and other things magnify them.

The AI in the builds you have are basically just running around fairly randomly. We're getting the game rules finalized before we put too much energy into the AI.

The issues you pick have popularity with Democrats, Republicans and Independents. You have to pick what issues you back carefully to have maximum impact.  Obviously, when the AI is weak, you don't have to be very careful.

Reply #11 Top
BTW, that screenshot couldn't be from a masochistic setting because the AI gets free money on that one and the money spent is too low.
Reply #12 Top
Can someone explain me what the values mean in that screenshot? For example, it would appear that the environment was the most important issue in the election. How do the numbers of 6%, 85% and 14% relate to that?
Reply #13 Top
BTW, that screenshot couldn't be from a masochistic setting because the AI gets free money on that one and the money spent is too low.
I'm 99% sure that the game was run on the masochistic level, although I suppose there is a minisucule chance that the setting got lost due to repeatedly re-setting to get the "ready" button to work.

It is more likely that something went wrong either in the AI's spending or the reporting of the AI's spending.



Can someone explain me what the values mean in that screenshot? For example, it would appear that the environment was the most important issue in the election. How do the numbers of 6%, 85% and 14% relate to that?
The environment was the most important issue to the voters, and 6% of the population put it at the top. I think the 85% and 14% mean that 85% supported Kerry on this issue and 14% supported Bush -- but it may mean that 6% based their decision on this one issue and that, of that 6%, 85% voted for Kerry.

Reply #14 Top
Frogboy, since you sounded skeptical, I ran another game at masochistic, again with no use of campaigning or advertising. This time I carried every state except Texas and Alaska, and the money still looks low for the AI. This may indicate a problem in the way the AI is using its available money -- hopefully this is already fixed in the coming version.


Reply #15 Top
It's the money spent that seems odd. When I play on Masochistic he out-spends me by 10 to 1.
Reply #16 Top
I'm playing this until the demo comes out for PM.

Currently, PF>PM because I haven't played PM yet

In fact, I'm not going to until the demo comes out.

So HURRY... PM looks reallllly cool