Is anyone else out there???

There still may be some life left in the Galactic Empire. Also there may be some little empire that has a couple or three dedicated players that could come out of the woodwork and be noticed.

There are also folks that post to the metaverse with no empire affiliation. Then there are active players that just don't play the metaverse at all.

I would think DA could spark more interest in the metaverse and I'm sure DA scores will be allowed in the MV when it's released and possibily even before.

I'd like to think that there was something we as metaverse players could do to increase the level of participation, whether or not it's affiliated with an empire. I do think that belonging to an empire helps but it's by no means necessary.

At the risk of hijacking your thread, I'd like to hear any ideas people have that could increase the overall interest and participation in the metaverse. I think this is still in line with the spirit of the OP.


The Metaverse Wants You


There's an Empire that Needs You


Join one (or Form one) Today

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I'm still posting now and then, but then, I'm part of the orcas.

Ge golly sounds like im in the army recruitment office

I'd like to hear any ideas people have that could increase the overall interest and participation in the metaverse.

Hmmm.. Ideas you say?

I think the leaders of the Empires should take a more active roll in recruiting first of all. When I started playing, and felt confident enough to start posting my games on the Metaverse, I posted a thread about joining an empire. I wanted to see how many people would respond and how interested they would be in acquiring my services. I got one response and that was from Magnumaniac of the Galactic Diplomats. Looking to Serve

Needless to say I was very disappointed with the lack of options I was given, so I just faded into the background. At the time the Galactic Diplomats were the first place Empire, I wanted to join an Empire that was not on the top, hoping to be a member that would help contribute, and help propel my new found Empire into the top three. I like setting goals for myself. Nothing against the Orcas or the Galactic Diplomats mind you. After several months of posting scores for myself, I finally did some research, and found an upstart Empire with much promise. The High Command Hegemony. I felt awkward just clicking the "Join Empire" button. So, I searched them out, and asked to join.

I think the first thing that needs to be changed is the ability to join any Empire you wish. I think you should have to apply and then personally be accepted by the Emperor of the requested Empire. This would give it more of a hands on approach for the leaders, and more of a sense of belonging and accomplishment for the recruit.
Not to mention foster a greater sense of community.

Something Stardock might be able to do would be host a competition to players only in Empires. Maybe creating a thread specifying certain criteria and game settings to enter the competition, then awarding a medal or something to the victor and his/her Empire. All of those who enter and play in the competition, for example, could get a % bonus to their final score of that one game helping their overall Metaverse score. Maybe have one competition a month and post the winners names in a sticky thread. This would help with the overall competitive nature of the Metaverse, help get players into Empires, and get people to start posting games on the Metaverse, as well as, getting the leaders of the Empires to seek out new members.

It does not have to be strictly Metaverse games either, Stardock could also set up a type of Mod Competition as well. Everyone down loads the same Mod, plays with certain criteria and submits scores. They could place the scores on the Metaverse if the so desired, making it the only type of Moddable games allowed to be posted. Giving even more incentive to join and participate within the Empire structure.

I have no idea what kind of code this would require, or even if it would be possible. I was just trying to give out a few ideas.

Just my thoughts.

Empires should take a more active roll in recruiting

This can be a fine line to walk. Clearly personal invites to individual players to join an empire can be effective. But, you run the risk of getting the following response.

Ge golly sounds like im in the army recruitment office

I've never received an official recruitment policy from my own empire, but over time you get an idea of what's reasonable and what's usually not done. The feeling that I've gotten is that general invites open to all are well and good but that individual private messages asking only certain players to join is usually not done. This seems a reasonable stance to take in the interest of fairness, even though receiving an individual invite to join an empire is flattering and does provide extra motivation to join.

I wanted to join an Empire that was not on the top

I think this is a common motivation. After I had posted my first MV game I looked at the top empires, checking out their web site if they had one and viewing their players’ profiles and the kind of games they submitted. At that time the Orcas were well in first place and I felt my contribution would be more helpful to the then second place Diplomats than to the Orcas. Anyway, I'm very happy with the Diplomats even though the Orcas are a fine bunch of folks as well.

The Diplomats do welcome any and all GalCiv2 players to join, heck it's not even required that you post games to the MV. And although the Galactic Core hosts the "private" Diplomat areas, everyone regardless of empire is welcomed at the Core and encouraged to participate in GalCiv2 discussion as well as other attractions.

Your idea of some kind of specific competition among empires is a reasonable idea but I don't think that's ever going to come from Stardock. I think we need some kind of "ruling council" of the metaverse that's formed from representatives from *all* active empires and possibly metaverse players not even aligned with an empire. The purpose and goal of such a council would be to promote participation in the MV regardless of empire affiliation.

Yes, I think its great when "my" empire gains another member, but I feel it's just as good when any active empire gains a member or even better when some ambitious player starts their own successful empire. I think we all win when that happens.

I think we need some kind of "ruling council" of the metaverse that's formed from representatives from *all* active empires and possibly metaverse players not even aligned with an empire. The purpose and goal of such a council would be to promote participation in the MV regardless of empire affiliation.

Interesting.

"ruling council" of the metaverse

The purpose and goal of such a council would be to promote participation in the MV regardless of empire affiliation.

It is a good idea Mumble but the question remains... how do you give players more incentive to create / join an Empire and or post games on the Metaverse?

If Stardock cares, which I believe they do, then why would they not take an active role in ensuring the success of the Metaverse?

how do you give players more incentive to create / join an Empire and or post games on the Metaverse?

I think your idea of special events or competitions is one way. But I think the best way is to "get the word out" that playing the MV is fun and helps you progress in the game.

I'm sure some folks think that they have no chance of being top 25 so why should they bother. This is where being in a empire helps. Believe me, everyone's contribution is appreciated no matter how small it may be at the time. Plus being in an empire can help you progress in the game further and faster than you could on your own.

There are a number of players out there that I've had discussions with on these forums that don't post to the metaverse when it's clear to me that if they did they would rank quite high. I'm also sure that there are many that I don't know in the same situation. I'd like to list a bunch of names of folks that I'd like to see in the MV but I wouldn't want to single anyone out. There are quite a few that I can think of though.

The biggest problem with the MV is that it's essentially just a high score list. It provides a certain amount of competition between players in what is ultimately a single person game. But the Metaverse needs to be as fun for the guy in the middle of the pack, or even last, as for the guy in first. I think it can be when the guy in the middle of the pack's contribution to his empire is appreciated and when by being in an empire and playing in the MV he can improve his game beyond what he could accomplish on his own.

If Stardock cares, which I believe they do

There have been a couple of threads dedicated to this topic as well as a few replies back and forth on this topic in other threads.

I don't think they do. At best, I think they view the MV as a necessary evil. This attitude is not without justification. The point is that they would just prefer people play the game for fun and not be obsessed with the score.

I agree that people should play the game for fun, otherwise why bother. I just also happen to think that the bit of competition that the MV provides adds to the fun and not detracts from it.

In the end I think it's mostly up to those that enjoy the MV to do what they can to improve the preception of the MV and those that play it and to insure that it is fun for all. That's the only thing that ensures it's continuation.

I do understand what you are saying Mumble but just for arguments sake, I must take issue with their possible view on the Metaverse itself. If, of course, what you are saying is true. (Not that I doubt what you are saying, I have read a few other threads regarding this matter.)

I don't think they do. At best, I think they view the MV as a necessary evil.

If, in their opinion it is a "Necessary evil", then I believe they still have a responsibility to create the overall atmosphere they were trying to get when they created the Metaverse to begin with. Simply make the Metaverse the best it can possibly be for everyone as you said, not just those obsessed with scores. Continue to strive to make it better, making it less of a necessary evil and more a part of the game.

I agree that people should play the game for fun, otherwise why bother. I just also happen to think that the bit of competition that the MV provides adds to the fun and not detracts from it.

I play the Metaverse for many reasons, one of which is fun. I like being able to compare my scores, to strive for something more each and every time I play. I look through profiles in front of me and slightly behind me to see how they are playing, what they are playing, the scores they are generating, and plotting my next game to get that one step further ahead, or to close the gap against an individual character, who may be slightly higher in the rankings. To tell you the honest truth, I do not think I would play the game without the Metaverse. My competitive nature would soon tire of the AI and I would eventually move on. The Metaverse is not Multiplayer but still gives that overall feeling of being competitive and the Empires that have been created adds to this competitive state.

In the end I think it's mostly up to those that enjoy the MV to do what they can to improve the perception of the MV and those that play it and to insure that it is fun for all.

I have to agree with you. Although, I do hope Stardock may be able to see the potential the Metaverse has, and will take it one step further.

I would love to see these ideas implemented. I think, if the Stardock has no plans to further the metaverse, then maybe a ; By the players, for the players setup could be organized. Look at the altmeta. It was pushed by the players and ultimately was created by one. Someone could setup a site, with links through here to d/l a set game with a locked save(if that's possible) that people play through and submit their scores. I don't think it would need to be near as complicated as the actual metaverse, but would require a little more time and hands on maintenance for the ones running it. Which brings up Mumble's point of a council that could review and approve the scenarios/saves that get chosen for competition and ultimately keep things running smoothly. Also since not all players are equal, you could have say, three d/l of the same scenario just on different difficulty levels. This would create brackets in the scoring, that people could see how they are against others at their level. I'm not suggesting a d/l for each difficulty in the game, but maybe three; easy(sub-normal), medium(painful or crippling), and hard(suicidal). It seems doable if a such a council could be formed.
Regards

I really like the idea of brackets. This could really increase interest across a range of player experience. Also incorporating some of Wheel's metaverse scenario elements could be a good thing as well. The danger of such things is that you really need to keep the choices simple and limited, otherwise it just gets too complicated.

I'd like to see something that broke games down into size ranges as well so that people that just don't want to play gigantic could realistically compete. Three difficulty levels in conjunction with three sizes levels would be reasonable, but nine different categories seems a lot to me. Maybe two difficulty levels and two size levels for four total categories makes more sense. I think this would be manageable and give most everyone a place to reasonably compete.

BTW I also agree with just about everything Quixen said in his last post as well.

The thing about brackets for difficulty level and for galaxy size is that it's basically just a sort on the current metaverse data. I'm sure this is something that Kryo could implement/add to the Alt Meta.

The thing is that the Alt Meta is a good thing in and of itself but it's universality is limited by not being in any way "official", and being hosted on a seperate site doesn't help either.

The thing that a "council" could accomplish is that it could effectively speak as the combined opinion of all of us. This would certainly have more weight with Stardock than each of us as individuals could ever have.

The thing that a "council" could accomplish is that it could effectively speak as the combined opinion of all of us.

Mumble, your original suggestion of a ruling council is a very good one. This however, is where it will start to become difficult.

think we need some kind of "ruling council" of the Metaverse that's formed from representatives from *all* active empires and possibly Metaverse players not even aligned with an empire.

Empires will be forced in my opinion to take a more active role with their members in order to accomplish this. The last thing you would want would be changes made that the majority of the players may not have wanted. "Game Elders" would have to be selected from within the Empire itself or from the ranked players currently using the Metaverse. How would you go about doing this? Would you have the Empires leader, the players within the Empire, or Stardock choose the representative? Would they be permanent or elected / selected every so often?

Obviously you would want the more experienced players to be in this position, as well as those players who communicate well and often on this forums page. They would have to have the ability to be flexible in the decisions to be made, so those selected would really have to be open minded and not agenda oriented. Since it would be considered a players council, you would also have to be able to expand the ranks when new Empires and players become more experienced.

If there will only be a selected few members then the criteria to become part of the council will have to be established. Example...Say only during election / selection time, (so that council members do not change every time the Metaverse is updated.)the top 9 Empires can have a member on the council, and 2 of the top ranked Metaverse players not associated with an Empire may become council members. I am sure much more detail would have to be incorporated into this. Still we would want it to be as uncomplicated as possible.

Lastly, Stardock has worked with our (meaning the players) suggestions and ideas in the past to better the game. I think if approached with an idea that could substantially increase participation within the Metaverse, forge a more competitive atmosphere between players and Empires, and give more options to Metaverse play, they may be willing to listen and may even help create what is proposed.

Sorry, there I go being long winded again!   Just some random thoughts on the matter.

Well so far this seems pretty much limited to the Quixen and Mumble show. I'd like to see if there's anyone else that expresses any interest. I would expect that each empire's representative would need consensus among their empire. I guess the real question is what would such a council actually do.

As for the suggestion that Stardock would work with players suggestions to better the metaverse I'm sure they would, but I think the players would need to be unified in their desire. If one group wants one thing and another group wants something different while a third wants no change at all, I can't imagine Stardock being very willing to do much of anything.

Perhaps just a discussion of ideas with some eventual poll could come to what could be considered a unified desire. But I do think it would be more likely that a limited set of representative opinions would have a more realistic chance at coming to agreement over some positive changes than would us just hashing out a hundred different ideas over the forums.

As to what such a council could do, coming up with "events" like you first mentioned and getting a quasi-universal agreement among MV players as to how to increase participation is about it. Otherwise I don't see much reason for it.

I was really hoping to see some more responses to this as well. I really like the idea and will support it in any way I can. The forums do seem a little on the quiet side, due to the holidays I imagine. Maybe as the new year takes hold and people go back to the norm, more responses will come.

I honestly don't think Stardock are interested in the metaverse.
It is just a drain on their resouces and they would rather put the effort into new games.

One possible solution...if there is enough interest, would be for a group to set up their own Metaverse.
You would need someone with deep pockets to host it.

I'm not even sure how to post games to the Metaverse; not that I'm really any good yet.   I'm digging around trying to read up on how this whole thing works.

[edit]Um... yeah, nevermind. Turns out I posted a game but didn't realize that was the same thing that's being discussed here.

I'm still following the Metaverse conversation here; it's pretty interesting. I'm still learning the game but will be happy to eventually join up with an Empire and pitch in with others.

Its guess it is kind of sad that the besides only a few empires the rest have been discouraged. I mean i play for fun, at first i cared about score and rank, and then i reliesed that theres so much more. Theres actual people and a community, i dont think empires should work towards the best scores, empires should work to better the overall community. Not just their members, or those who play Metaverse games, everyone. It could be as simple as helping out a noob, or going around and answering strategy questions to more experienced players.

I think the problem is that most of the empires get discouraged, the first thing you see when you go on the Metaverse data base is the High Scores. And considering that both Diplo and Orca have like 6 million and dozens of members, who do you think a new player will pick? An empire that will give him respect, scores, and shiny medal or a potentially good empire with a friendly community(im not saying the Diplo and Orca aren). I mean look at most of the empires, they have under 10 players, and most rely on the emperor to keep them together and active, some have less than that. Though number of players or score dont matter to me now, they did when i was a noob. I think a lot of people would think that way, when they start out. Now, to me goal or reason is what gets me into an empire. I joined Hitchhikers recently because they were concentrated on getting moders organized and helping the community. Though i didnt know much about modding i loved the Hitchhikers universe and wanted to better the community. But, it didnt happen that way, though some modders did get the message through the forum we still dont have a lot of people as empire members. Mostly because most dont want t join a empire thats in the top 200, they would rather join the one in the top 10. The dilema continues, how do we solve it?

empires should work to better the overall community. Not just their members, or those who play Metaverse games, everyone. It could be as simple as helping out a noob, or going around and answering strategy questions to more experienced players.

I think that most of us do this, some folks more than others but although I do feel closer to members of my empire than someone I've barely spoken to, I still try to help out when I can.

I was thinking about the disparity in the empires as well as the fact that there seem to be so many defunct ones. I was wondering if it would be better for competition to chose 4 or 5 new "captains" of metaverse teams and chose up "sides" like you did playing softball as a kid. It would certainly end up more balanced than now.

Adding info into the Alt Meta that would indicate how many active players are submitting games from any of the empires would be a good thing as well, so that dying empires could be adjusted. Perhaps we could use a commissoners office of the Metaverse and have a draft of new players. We could have a league more like baseball or football. We could have All Star games and play offs. It could be cool.

I don't think a league and comiss are needed but I do like the way the Alt Meta scoring works. Many dead empires are being kept in place by scores that are so old these simply won't decay any more. The Iron Guerillas and Unfunf are a prime example. Unfunf's last submission was in July and yet both are still ranked 13th, even though we all know he's not coming back, our loss as a community as far as I'm concerned.

I like the open format of joining empires. I probably send out 1-2 dozen invites ae week now. Several folks have joined, including Hidar, who started this thread. The systems works fine for getting started but we do need a fix to let defunct empires slid down the ranks accordingly.

For the Metaverse to be a viable proposition, the scoring system needs to be revamped. In order to gain the highest score, a player is forced into certain strategies that have been well documented; conquest, time limits, etc. Things are different now. Diplomatic victories are much harder to come by (as evidenced by the multitude of posts asking for advice on the matter), as are influence victories. The scoring system should reflect this. The Metaverse, as it stands, rewards the ability of the player to take advantage of the current scoring system, and in no way is an accurate reflection of playing skill, IMHO. What say you to leveling the playing field? Let Stardock create a scenario, with certain starting parameters that anyone choosing to participate in must follow. Everyone involved will, of course, use the strategies that they have developed over time in order to try and post the highest score. Keep track of this in a separate area of the Meta, and we will see who is the best player.

The Metaverse, as it stands, rewards the ability of the player to take advantage of the current scoring system, and in no way is an accurate reflection of playing skill, IMHO. What say you to leveling the playing field?

Any scoring system rewards the player or playing style that best takes advantage of it. Change the scoring system and you change the style that best takes advantage of it. I have no issue in rebalancing the score of other types of victory conditions versus military conquest, but I do believe being forced to conquer each and every planet certainly takes longer than any other victory condition.

I also agree that the current (or any other) scoring system is not a totally accurate reflection of a players skill, but I disagree that there's no correlation whatsoever between skill and score. Any scoring system will not be perfect. The scoring system that comes the closest is multiplayer but that's a different conversation.

Your suggestion of a single starting scenario is in fact what already exists. That starting scenario is gigantic galaxy, abundant all and loose clusters or scattered systems. That's because this is the highest scoring starting condition. I'm not sure what about this isn't level.

I would prefer to see folks not be forced to play one type of game simply because that's the one that scores the highest. That's why I liked the idea of brackets that ranked players based on at least a couple of different sized games as well as different difficulties (difficulty is also something that seems under rewarded).

If someone likes tiny galaxies then by all means work to become number one in tiny galaxies. If someone playing gigantic thinks they're better than someone playing tiny, let them meet somewhere in the middle and duke it out. I'm for more options rather than less, at least until the metaverse gets so fragmented it loses all meaning.

More individual and group competition medals might help as well. It true that metals are nothing more than little trinkets on your post, but there is still some sense of accomplishment (and lets not discuss the real importance of computer games on the grand scale of things )...For instance:

1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring game medals for each map/difficulty size.

1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring metaverse score in total for each difficulty level. (same as what you get when you go to the metaverse and sort by difficulty)

1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring metaverse game period. (This is what I was doing with my recent 500K game, even with no medal for it...)

This would offer up more challenges. So rather than trying to be top of the metaverse, you could decide to try for the top scoring tiny/tough game, etc. I think this would also help offer up something for the new player. I simply don't have any interest in playing games on easier settings at this point and would take myself out of the competition for the lower level difficulty games, helping make them available for the new player. I suspect most of the established players would follow a similar pattern. This would also be something where a computer could easily assign the metals to the appropriate players. I think this would effectively give us player brackets...

Then you would just need sorts for the various categories to see what you had to score to reach it and to see who else is playing games in the same category. Some of these sorts are already there, and since it's a straight sort on an already established database field, it shouldn't be too hard to set up for the remainder.

I do like the idea of temporary team play. I.E. you put your name in a hat and temporary teams are put together that have their scores totaled for a quarter or so. This would probably require a human review to help make sure the teams are relatively even (I.E. skill, frequency of posts, etc. would need to be considered) and the rules clearly established (number of games to be considered, end date for posting, etc). This seems like an ideal task for a council to perform if Stardock buys into it. Once again, I would offer up permanent medals for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place teams on this.

My two cents...

1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring game medals for each map/difficulty size. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring metaverse score in total for each difficulty level. (same as what you get when you go to the metaverse and sort by difficulty) 1st, 2nd, 3rd and top 10 highest scoring metaverse game period. (This is what I was doing with my recent 500K game, even with no medal for it...)

I like this idea.

With the final touches being put on D.A., hopefully someone at Stardock will take a closer look at the Metaverse and see the potential she really does have. This has turned into a wonderful thread... No longer the Quixen and Mumble show!

I like all of those ideas Purge. Now they just need to get the Meta server kick started.