Bush is a 21st Century Rip Van Winkle


Now Bush says we need to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps. WHY did it take him over 6 years to do what he said was needed in 2000? I agree that we need a much larger military and we need to have a crash replacement of most of the equipment that has been destroyed in Iraq. Now we need to develop a plan to achieve that objective.

The fact is that we have had to increase the enlistment and reenlistment bonuses significantly to just maintain the all volunteer force at the current levels. What will it take to add another 120,000 or more to the Army and Marine Corps?

Like it or not if the security needs continue to increase, there is a very real question as to how we educe enough young people to provide the needed troops for an all-volunteer Armed Force? It is a matter of both at WHAT COST and CAN THE LARGER FORCE BE SUSTAINED?
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Reply #1 Top

Like it or not if the security needs continue to increase, there is a very real question as to how we educe enough young people to provide the needed troops for an all-volunteer Armed Force? It is a matter of both at WHAT COST and CAN THE LARGER FORCE BE SUSTAINED?

I suspect you are going to start the draft rumor again like you claimed was going to happen years ago and never did.  The fact is enlistment is meeting its goals, and this appears just to be another anti-Bush propaganda piece.

Reply #2 Top
IslandDog

The fact is that enlistment objectives are JUST being met. There were times when both the Army and Marines did not meet their recruiting needs. My question is if we ramp up significantly the need to recruit to increase the size of our ground forces can it be done and at what cost?
Reply #3 Top
IslandDog

You see a Bush in EVERY WOOD PILE!
Reply #4 Top
I just contacted the Army Recruiting office to learn what we are paying in bonuses. The front end enlistment is $20-40,000 and the education benefit up to $72,000. That means to recruit 120,000 into the Army could cost $13 Billion just in enlistment incentives. The cost when they are on active duty has been estimated for 10,000 military at $1.2 Billion per year. Thus for another 120,000 it will add $14 Billion per year to the budget. All this and tax cuts to the rich!
Reply #5 Top

You see a Bush in EVERY WOOD PILE!

I'm not the one with an obsession over Bush, col.  Let's get that straight.

That means to recruit 120,000 into the Army could cost $13 Billion just in enlistment incentives. The cost when they are on active duty has been estimated for 10,000 military at $1.2 Billion per year. Thus for another 120,000 it will add $14 Billion per year to the budget. All this and tax cuts to the rich!

What does tax cuts to Americans have to do with?  Do you just have to throw in some left wing rhetoric in every post you make about Bush?  All you have done is complain about troop levels, and now you complain about how much more troops would cost?

 

Reply #6 Top



IslandDog

“What does tax cuts to Americans have to do with?”

Simple - No rational person pays for added cost by cutting their income. We have borrowed every cent we have spent in Iraq. As our defense cost increase we must come up with the tax revenue to pay the added cost. This is the very first war that was not funded by increased taxes!
Reply #7 Top

Simple - No rational person pays for added cost by cutting their income. We have borrowed every cent we have spent in Iraq. As our defense cost increase we must come up with the tax revenue to pay the added cost. This is the very first war that was not funded by increased taxes!

Then lets tax all Americans, and not just invoke class warfare.  Let's cut welfare and other worthless government programs. 

How about you send all your taxes back to the government col?  Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Reply #8 Top
IslandDog

I favor considering the “Ability to pay.” I also know that to increase taxes on middle income workers will have a greater impact on spending then to increase taxes on the wealthy. Thus from Both the economics as well as the social impact, it makes far better sense to resend the tax cuts to the top 10% and keep the tax cuts to middle income workers which is what I favor!

Per the 2004 data (from CBO) 70% of the total Tax cuts went to the top 20% and 30% to the middle income taxpayers. When all the cuts to the wealthy are phased in, the estimate is that 90% of the tax cut dollars will flow to the top 20% and 10% to the middle income taxpayers. The bottom 20% receive almost no benefit from the Bush tax cuts.
Reply #9 Top

I favor considering the “Ability to pay.” I also know that to increase taxes on middle income workers will have a greater impact on spending then to increase taxes on the wealthy. Thus from Both the economics as well as the social impact, it makes far better sense to resend the tax cuts to the top 10% and keep the tax cuts to middle income workers which is what I favor!

We have gone over this over and over again.  A minimal tax on the middle class will not affect them as dramatically as you claim.  You have valid reason to tax the rich any more than "they can afford it".  Which is pure bs.  You just want to tax rich people, you could care less about the consequences which people here, including business owners have told you would happen.

 

Reply #10 Top
Island Dog

I have provided the economic argument - the middle Income tax payers will spend almost 100% of any added income they keep from the tax cut. The wealthy will not reduce their spending if the tax cuts were rescinded. Thus it is better for spending (demand) to allow the middle income taxpayer to keep their tax cut and rescind the cuts to the top 20%. In addition the loss of the tax cut would not impact the life style of the wealthy like it would to the middle income tax payer.
Reply #11 Top
I just contacted the Army Recruiting office to learn what we are paying in bonuses. The front end enlistment is $20-40,000 and the education benefit up to $72,000. That means to recruit 120,000 into the Army could cost $13 Billion just in enlistment incentives. The cost when they are on active duty has been estimated for 10,000 military at $1.2 Billion per year. Thus for another 120,000 it will add $14 Billion per year to the budget. All this and tax cuts to the rich!


Your facts are correct, your conclusion is wrong.

Those bonuses are paid to people in critical fields only. Not every person will be getting a bonus for enlisting. When I went in they were paying bonuses for cooks because they needed more cooks that year. The reason why the bonuses are so high is because the job market is so large. You can get a job paying more money as a garbage man than you get as a member of our military. To attract the brighter people they pay more. They can't do it by salary so they pay a bonus.

I have provided the economic argument - the middle Income tax payers will spend almost 100% of any added income they keep from the tax cut. The wealthy will not reduce their spending if the tax cuts were rescinded. Thus it is better for spending (demand) to allow the middle income taxpayer to keep their tax cut and rescind the cuts to the top 20%. In addition the loss of the tax cut would not impact the life style of the wealthy like it would to the middle income tax payer.


So where did all these jobs come from if not from the "rich"? Every time a new job opens up it means a "rich" person is spending money.
Reply #12 Top

the middle Income tax payers will spend almost 100% of any added income they keep from the tax cut.

That is not a fact at all, and if any of it is true, then it's the peoples fault they don't know how to manage their money. 


The wealthy will not reduce their spending if the tax cuts were rescinded. Thus it is better for spending (demand) to allow the middle income taxpayer to keep their tax cut and rescind the cuts to the top 20%. In addition the loss of the tax cut would not impact the life style of the wealthy like it would to the middle income tax payer.

How are you speaking for the wealthy?  Do you not think successful Americans have businesses to be responsible for?  You have not presented any good arguement for raising taxes on successful Americans other than "they can afford it", which is ridiculous to even propose that. 

Reply #13 Top
IslandDog

You are correct most people do not manage their money well. However the savings rate, or lack of it, proves what I have said. Most middle income taxpayers will SPEND most if not all of any tax cut. If the tax cuts to middle income taxpayers were to end, they would spend less and the economy would be negatively impacted. That is why the middle income tax cuts should be made permanent.

I do not speak for the wealthy but mealy point out their behavior. The reality is that the wealthy spend what they want and do not need or depend on that added money from the Bush Tax Cuts to buy all they want. The issue has nothing to do with penalizing successful Americans. Even after restoring the tax rates to pre Bush, they do just fine. The issue is that we can not continue to run the deficit we have been running and ONLY by Added Tax Revenue from those that can afford it plus spending cuts in non essential areas can deal with the deficit! Look at my Blog- Smoke and Mirrors.
Reply #14 Top

Most middle income taxpayers will SPEND most if not all of any tax cut.

Do you have any facts to back that up with, or are you just speaking for classes again?

I do not speak for the wealthy but mealy point out their behavior. The reality is that the wealthy spend what they want and do not need or depend on that added money from the Bush Tax Cuts to buy all they want

To be perfectly blunt, that is just ignorant.  Are you rich?  How many people do you know who are rich?  What wealthy people are you basing your rhetoric on? 

The issue is that we can not continue to run the deficit we have been running and ONLY by Added Tax Revenue from those that can afford it plus spending cuts in non essential areas can deal with the deficit! Look at my Blog- Smoke and Mirrors.

How many times have you been shown that increasing taxes will not solve your problem you are so obsessed with?  Keep ignoring what everybody is telling you col, you are proving yourself wrong every single day.

Reply #15 Top
Island Dog

Yes by past actions. There is a wealth of data that shows that middle income workers spend all the money they earn and if the tax cuts they currently have end they will spend less which does not help the economy or the people themselves. That is why the tax cuts to middle income families should be made permanent.

No, I am in the top third of the middle income Americans.

"How many times have you been shown that increasing taxes will not solve your problem you are so obsessed with?"

You are simply wrong. If we add back $200 Billion that goes to the wealthy in the current tax cuts and DO NOT add new spending programs, we will be $200 Billion closer to a balanced budget. Add another $50 Billion in pork and better tax collections from those that do not fully pay their taxes and we have a good shot of at least balancing the budget. After we have the budget balanced, we need to see how we can begin repaying the nearly $9 Trillion we have amassed in debt!
Reply #16 Top

Yes by past actions. There is a wealth of data that shows that middle income workers spend all the money they earn and if the tax cuts they currently have end they will spend less which does not help the economy or the people themselves. That is why the tax cuts to middle income families should be made permanent.

What data?  You seem to propel the myth that the middle class are so poor they spend every single penny they have, which is absolutely not true. 

If we add back $200 Billion that goes to the wealthy in the current tax cuts and DO NOT add new spending programs, we will be $200 Billion closer to a balanced budget.

And we can also cut useless federal programs and other forms of government waste to get closer to a balanced budget.  You are the only one who is obsessed with penalizing business owners and successful Americans.  Why do you keep ignoring all that we have posted to you?

Reply #17 Top
The savings rate. The average Credit card debt. The increased level of mortgage balances compared with the equity. Everything shows that most middle income families are spending everything they make and then some. The lack of savings proves that fact. The added credit card debt, increase in home equity and mortgage refinancing to get money from their Real Estate values proves that as well. The lack of After Inflation weekly wage growth.

The economic principal is called the "Marginal Propensity to Consume"

We can cut the budget but the amount needed to balance the budget FAR exceeds what can be cut from the budget. Most of the Budget is either promise (Interest, pensions) or things that simply can not and will not be cut (Defense, Medicaid, Education). Anyone that says we can cut over $500 Billion ( See Smoke and Mirrors) just to balance the budget has not looked at what the budget is being spent on. After we balance the budget we then need to generate a REAL Annual Surplus that is applied to the $ 9 Trillion in Debt.
Reply #18 Top

Everything shows that most middle income families are spending everything they make and then some.

No, it doesn't show that.  And if you seriously believe everyone in the middle class are spending every single penny they have, then it is hopeless with you. 

If you want to increase taxes only on one class of people, then you will have to come up wtih a better reason than "they can afforid it".  That excuse has been proven wrong, and you seem to ignore that. 

Reply #19 Top
I have. First they can not afford it like the wealthy. The lack of After Inflation Average Weekly wage growth and the increased credit card debt PROVE that. Second, tax increases to middle income taxpayers will impact spending and tax increases on the wealthy will have little or no IMPACT ON THEIR SPENDING. These are facts that you may not want to acknowledge but they are facts never the less.

I do not know what business school you attended but I graduated from two first class business schools.
Reply #20 Top

They are not facts.  A minimal tax increase will not dramatically affect the lifestyle of the middle class.  If balancing the budget is so obsessively important to you, then everybody needs to step up and help pay for it. 

You keep IGNORING what was posted to you.  Do you understand what businesses and wealthy do with their tax cuts?  It was explained to you, but you refuse to listen.

Will you be contributing extra to your taxes this year col? 

I do not know what business school you attended but I graduated from two first class business schools.

Anybody can graduate form a school col, it doesn't make you special or better than anybody else

  

Reply #21 Top
Island Dog

No not anyone can graduate from college and Grad School. In addition I have successfully run many for profit and not for profit organizations. I have both a formal business education and the experience in business that spans 35 years and 6 major organizations.

There may be some middle income families in the top third of the middle class that would not be severely impacted by a tax increase but NONE of the wealthy would be adversely impacted by going back to the tax structure that existed in the 1990's. That is what needs to happen and I hope the Democrats do just that! There was no justification for the big tax cuts to the wealthy because there was NO SIURPLUS to give them back which was the Bush justification for the big tax cuts the majority of which is going to the top 20%. In fact by 2010 when all the tax cuts to the wealthy are in place, over 50% of the tax cuts will go to the top 1%. That is ridiculous!
Reply #22 Top
No not anyone can graduate from college and Grad School. In addition I have successfully run many for profit and not for profit organizations. I have both a formal business education and the experience in business that spans 35 years and 6 major organizations.


And what do you want for that?  Doesn't mean you are right, on the contrary, you have been proved wrong here more times than I can remember.


There may be some middle income families in the top third of the middle class that would not be severely impacted by a tax increase but NONE of the wealthy would be adversely impacted by going back to the tax structure that existed in the 1990's.


BS.  Business owners would be impacted, the people who create jobs would be impacted.  How hard is it to understand that?

That is what needs to happen and I hope the Democrats do just that! There was no justification for the big tax cuts to the wealthy because there was NO SIURPLUS to give them back which was the Bush justification for the big tax cuts the majority of which is going to the top 20%. In fact by 2010 when all the tax cuts to the wealthy are in place, over 50% of the tax cuts will go to the top 1%. That is ridiculous!


Nice to see you are still cheerleading for the democrats.  The wealthy in this country hold most of the tax burden, and you advocate more.  You keep saying the same things over and over even though your opinions have been refuted.  You are just wrong.
Reply #23 Top
Island Dog


The impact is not if you have a small business or work for a larger company. It is your income. The life style of People in the middle income brackets would be adversely impacted by higher taxes. The life style of the wealthy would not be changed by returning to the pre Bush tax rates.

You do not address the central issue - The Tax Cuts were because we had this SURPLUS that needed to be returned to the taxpayers. There was NO SURPLUS and thus no reason for the tax cuts! How can you return something you DO NOT HAVE?
Reply #24 Top

The impact is not if you have a small business or work for a larger company. It is your income. The life style of People in the middle income brackets would be adversely impacted by higher taxes. The life style of the wealthy would not be changed by returning to the pre Bush tax rates.

Then I now believe you don't read anything posted to you. 

You do not address the central issue - The Tax Cuts were because we had this SURPLUS that needed to be returned to the taxpayers. There was NO SURPLUS and thus no reason for the tax cuts! How can you return something you DO NOT HAVE?

We have addressed the reasons for the tax cuts, you just IGNORE IT.  Why don't you go and address the issues that have been posted to you that you keep ignoring?

Reply #25 Top
You do not address the central issue - The Tax Cuts were because we had this SURPLUS that needed to be returned to the taxpayers. There was NO SURPLUS and thus no reason for the tax cuts! How can you return something you DO NOT HAVE?


I can't hold my tongue any more.

The tax cuts were to get us out of a recession caused by Mr. Bush 41 and Mr. Clinton raising taxes to the point that the economy was sinking. The excuse of taking it from a nonexistent surplus only made it easier for the stupid to agree too. Everyone that understands money and how it works within the economy knows this but you don’t seem to get it even though you worked for six major organizations. I like how you say the surplus was nonexistent but the same projections for the surplus are the ones used to project the deficit you cling to. So either they are both nonexistent or they both exist. To be honest they are both fake. They are the guesses from educated men. The great thing about being an economist, my son tells me, is you only have to be right once to make your mark. Most are wrong because they guess, educated guesses, but still guessing. The facts come in and then you will know who is right and who is wrong. The ones that are right will be listened to again and the ones that are wrong will still be listened to because they might be right some day. My son told me this when he was getting his doctorate in economics.

There may be some middle income families in the top third of the middle class that would not be severely impacted by a tax increase but NONE of the wealthy would be adversely impacted by going back to the tax structure that existed in the 1990's. That is what needs to happen and I hope the Democrats do just that! There was no justification for the big tax cuts to the wealthy because there was NO SIURPLUS to give them back which was the Bush justification for the big tax cuts the majority of which is going to the top 20%. In fact by 2010 when all the tax cuts to the wealthy are in place, over 50% of the tax cuts will go to the top 1%. That is ridiculous!


I stole this from Herman Cane' article called stop lying about taxes. please prove him wrong.

When President Ronald Reagan came to office in 1981, the economy was mired in high interest rates, high unemployment and stagflation produced by policies of the 1970s. Reagan cut the highest individual tax rate in 1981 from 70 to 50 percent, and cut the lowest rate from 14 to 11 percent. In 1986 he further cut the top rate from 50 to 28 percent.


Reagan's tax rate cuts helped produce the longest period of peacetime economic expansion in U.S. history. Total tax revenues grew by over 99 percent during the 1980s, and the economy grew by an average of 4 percent each year. As we saw in the 1960s, the wealthiest Americans paid the most taxes following Reagan's rate cuts. The top 10 percent of income earners went from paying 48 percent of all taxes in 1981, to over 57 percent by 1988.


The other lie liberals perpetually tell is that low tax rates cause budget deficits. History proves just the opposite - that cuts in income, capital gains and dividends tax rates increase the amount of federal revenues available for Congress to spend. The only thing that can cause a budget deficit is when Congress spends in excess of available revenues, and the president at the time signs off on that spending. Members of Congress who blame tax cuts for causing deficits might as well argue that gun manufacturers cause homicides, fast food restaurants cause obesity and cigarette makers cause lung cancer. Surely no one would agree with that flawed logic.