We cant call anyone idiot without being in their shoes. There has to be some belief, no matter how illogical it seem, that made that person make a decision. Blaming or branding doesnt solve a situation.

i absolutely disagree.

"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former."- Albert Einstein

and here's something interesting i found...

Tim Partlett (left) is an Enlishman and a game designer. He works for the German developer Crytek, best known for the hit first-person shooter Far Cry. Gamers are also waiting impatiently for Crytek’s next release, Crysis. In a recent post on the Quarter to Three forums, Partlett described his view of how bad the environment in Germany has gotten for game developers: When I tell people in Germany what I do for a living, they usually react with a mixture of pity and disgust, like I had admitted to them I was a male prostitute. For computer games both the press and public are histrionic, and the politicians are keen to tap into every reactionary outrage… At the time of the (2002 Erfurt school) shooting, we were already in development of… Far Cry… We were just across the state border from Erfurt in northern Bavaria. Tensions in the region were high… In 2004 the Bavarian authorities sent in the state troopers… When the small tech team appeared to inspect our computers, they were accompanied by over one hundred flak-jacketed riot police, all armed with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns. It was a total overreaction… They arrived first thing in the morning, and kicked down our doors. They even raided the nearby private residences… I was caught just outside the office… We were all shepherded into our Mo-Cap room, and there we were forced to remain until questioned, prevented from leaving by dozens of armed guards… (Now,) Dr. Günther Beckstein… Interior Minister for the state of Bavaria, has drafted a new law… (GP: see recent coverage) It seems that the politicians are largely just reacting to hysteria in the public and press. The general consensus is that the government won’t pass this law, and even if they did, they would find themselves in conflict with local state laws, and overarching EU laws. EU laws are designed to protect free trade between nations… we aren’t packing our bags just yet… With a majority of Germans thinking you are evil and the press and politicians baying for you to be thrown in jail, it can make life uncomfortable… I love Frankfurt. I love Germany. I think it’s a great country to live in. I really hope they don’t make me leave.

We cant call anyone idiot without being in their shoes

all this SoaB cares about is votes. and guess what? there are way more parent-voters than video game-voters.

In 2004 the Bavarian authorities sent in the state troopers… When the small tech team appeared to inspect our computers, they were accompanied by over one hundred flak-jacketed riot police, all armed with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns. It was a total overreaction… They arrived first thing in the morning, and kicked down our doors. They even raided the nearby private residences… I was caught just outside the office… We were all shepherded into our Mo-Cap room, and there we were forced to remain until questioned, prevented from leaving by dozens of armed guards…

facism is once again knocking at our door.
man, why is germany just about the ONLY developed country that does this?

Its not really facism untill the populous is under full watch of the government, sure its a... ignorant and demostrative action. But, as stated it was more overreaction then anything. I mean what were the video designers supposed to do, throw labtops at them?

And Germany isnt, you can consider some areas of China to be developed to a very good point, yet still their government maintains a large police and secret police presence in the area. Russia(although i regret to say so) also has many restrictive laws on pretty much everything, local policemen wont be even question if they are commiting corruption or abuse.

As for German fascism i dont think it will ever fade. Germany experienced the most gorwth and prosperity under that government, the people relise this and so do their politicians. I dont think it will ever return, the people of Europe were intelligent enough to make the EU and i think that confederation will keep the region stable.

I dont think it will ever return

just doing this is facism, period. it doesnt need to be blattent and widespread to be facism

Russia(although i regret to say so) also has many restrictive laws on pretty much everything

you can consider some areas of China to be developed to a very good point, yet still their government maintains a large police and secret police presence in the area.

russia and china are the world's pinnacle of oppressive governments, and neither allow civilians access to real technology

let me refine my meaning of "advanced": widespread access to the internet. neither china nor russia really has that, for differing reasons.

Everywhere i have been in Russia there has been Internet. It is not provided by the government, but by private companies so some of the rates are outrageous. But, all Internet sites are true and up to date and completly unaltered by the government. The companies howevere have been accused of altering download time and uploads. There are rural areas in the country side that dont have Internet, but thats for other reasons not the government.

you seriously believe that they have free range with their technology? I seriously doubt it.

Nothing is free in this world, if any government feels threatened by the public they will intervene. I am not saying that the government doesnt control some aspect, i am saying that the government usually stays out of it. But, i dont believe that this is because of decensy or laws, Russia buerocracy jus hasnt expanded enough to handle all that info and control.

china has plenty of access to the internet. those clever bastards have proxies down to an art. you'll see them in every mmo even when they shouldn't be. i know a couple of chinese guys who play eve. it has it's own shard in china, but these guys play on the other one too. like emp said, these govts do not have the technology themselves to watch what billions of people do on the internet.

the difference is that China's government controls the proxies, and Russia for the most part tries to eliminate them

Nothing is free in this world, if any government feels threatened by the public they will intervene

the difference is that our government is constantly threatened by the public, but can only work under those conditions. thats a main reason for why liberty in the U.S. is so well protected.
thank god for philosophers

anyway, point being is that in russia and china very few people period are allowed access to the internet, let alone free range. this is inhibiting their growth (haha) but also makes it much easier for them to exploit their public. (boo)

you know what I cant wait for? when china finally has to make the jump to the digital age and all of her constituants realize how much they've been played the fools.

you know what I cant wait for? when china finally has to make the jump to the digital age and all of her constituants realize how much they've been played the fools.

i don't agree. the cultural differences are quite large.

cultural only accounts for so much. I really cant see people being exposed to the way the world works and STILL living where they are exploited and treated like cattle.

Ew..... no your so wrong about people having such limited access. You misjudge the power the government in Russia, it is based of a democracy, YOUR democracy. Even though its still very corupt(so is pretty much every buerocracy), and it does take away liberties, its not that harsh to the public. We have had a much bloodier past then the US and if its one thing the government and politicians learned is dont piss off the public. So sure most of the internet is probably propoganda, but that doesnt mean you cant get the internet from private foreing comapanies. The reason they get rid of the proxies is to stifle growth in unstable reagions of Russia, give the people too much freedom in a new government and it will colapse upon itself. However, most if not all of the Eastern European side of Russia has full access to the Internet, at least they did when i was there 3 years ago, dont know if that has changed so quickly.

You misjudge the power the government in Russia, it is based of a democracy, YOUR democracy.

hahaha, yeah right.
I'm sorry, but when you sandbag people just because they are expressing doubtful views about your beurocracy then I dont think its remotely based off of our government. mimic, yes; based, no.

take for example china, they have the "Constitution of the People's Republic of China"
in one clause they state that "the people of the Republic of China shall not be stifled in their views thoughts or expressions in any way shape or form." but in the ajoining clause on racial equality they state that "any person within the boundaries of the People's Republic of China who display any recognition between the differences of races is to be jailed indefinately and fined for a determinable sum". Russia isnt much better.
if you dare say that this is based off of our goverment, I shall shun you with internet smilies, just to be demeaning.

It is based of you govenrment, your politicians and Mcdonalds(curse you!!) is what colapsed the Soviet Union. Though it is based off it is a poor representation, more like an insult to real democracy. I have lived their i should know, anything you read or hear or see thats made by authors, editors here in the US or even in Europe is bound to be biased. The government can hid things things and abuse its power, but when i was there none of my freedoms were infringed upon, but then again i lived near he capital, life there is so diffrent then from the rest of Russia.

I know im am backtracking a bit but heres a video about what could happen to net neutrality and what could happen to our internet rights, as well as how to stop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWt0XUocViE&eurl=

I have lived their i should know

like I said before, it doesnt have to be blatent or open to be oppression.

well, actualy is very hard to put an opinion on other country way of life if you dont live there. cause the sourse of information we get about other country sometimes is bad or changed by someone.
You cant get info from a goverment or any official agency.

Before living in Europe (Germany, France, Austria and Norway), I thought it would be neat to marry a local girl, like my uncles had done, and live there as an American ExPat. Living there for awhile opened my eyes. Europe is no longer free in the American sense. They just never have gotten the idea of freedom at all. I realized that we have a lot more of the cowboy and frontiersman in us than we give credit for. Americans basically feel that we are free and that when laws are passed, we give up a little more freedom for security, good of the whole, environment, or whatnot. Not the Europeans. They never did have a free frontier. They lived under kings and dictators until the US came and gave them what little freedom they have now. They don’t have that innate sense of entitlement to freedom. Thus, whenever their new kings and dictators shave off yet another slice of that American-given freedom, they shrug and wonder if, in return, they get government benefits at least. Europe is not free. I don’t think they understand the concept.

I think this guy puts it perfectly. Its incredibally difficult to fully infuse a concept into a culture that has never had it in the first place.

True Europe didnt have a free fronteir, but the idea of freedom orginated there, from Greece to England the brightest minds have philophised that rule of the divine is not necessary. That concept was PASSED on and IMPROVED upon here, no one here would have ever worried for freedom if not for the English documents that governed the colonies. These documents promised freedom already, the thing was that the King himself was just a bit too corrupt.

Now Europe is a lot more socialist then the US government, but they prosper because of it. People there get more rights in other areas then people here. There is very little poverty in the more developed country(Germany, France, England) then here, the people there get the freedom of health, and education(upper education), in Sweeden and Denmark you get payed to go to college, and in most of the members of the EU you get health covaredge from the govenrment, as well as cost of living if you lose your job.

All in all i think their people benifit more from getting their freedoms constrained than fully free. While here the rich control so much more because of the government does not monitor its economy so well. However, as um i forget who said this, "People who give up a little liberty for more security, deserve neither." I agree to this i wouldnt want to give up my liberties or have them constrained, but other people look at it diffrently, we cant say that the Europeans dont care, that they are just letting themselfes be pushed around we havent really seen it through their eyes have we. And anyone who goes pretty much anywhere in the world after living in the US will always consider other people to be giving up liberities without really judging all the points of benifits and consequences.

but the idea of freedom orginated there

if by that you mean Athens and pre-Julius rome? yeah. but it didnt get very far, now did it?

Now Europe is a lot more socialist then the US government, but they prosper because of it. People there get more rights in other areas then people here. There is very little poverty in the more developed country(Germany, France, England) then here, the people there get the freedom of health, and education(upper education), in Sweeden and Denmark you get payed to go to college, and in most of the members of the EU you get health covaredge from the govenrment, as well as cost of living if you lose your job.

all thats nice and fuzzy in philosophy, but it doesnt work in real life. despite having a nice euro, the EU still isnt near to us in just about any terms. even if they all merged into a real union, their joint power in terms of economy, political, military and technological is still very limited in comparison to ours.

socialism works if you pay attention to only a few principles, and expect a fully effective upper class. but Europe doesnt have one because the UPPER CLASS GETS ROBBED. trust me when I say that just because they get free health care doesnt mean that they are better off, in fact its quite the contrary.
socialism in all manners and ways breeds absolute laziness, and Europe should realize that by now. truly enough full and complete capitalism forsakes the mentally ill and otherwise COMPLETELY destitute, but it is much more redeeming in that it 1 )allows anyone to raise their rank (dont tell me this is bull, its way more true than in socialism) and 2 ) FORCES you to raise your rank unless you want to live in poverty. basically where socialism is the overbearing mother, capitalism is the forsaking, but much more educational father. its better to learn to take care of yourself the hard way than to be left to rely on the upper classes.

People who give up a little liberty for more security, deserve neither

agh, you completely twisted that:
he meant that if you want to give in on your liberties to protect yourself, your not truly worthy of saying that your pro-freedom. NOT that you should give up all your freedoms for perfect defense.

No no no... in that quote i think he meant that if you give up liberty for security, you dont deserve either of those. And anyways the upper class doesnt get robbed, the EU laws promote capatalism not socialism. And since Europe has the wealthiest families in the world, many of them or on the EU council thing(whatever its called), and make laws to protect their money. Same thing here, the rich have the power in this government(its proven day to day who runs this country). The philsophy of socialism was that the government "gives advice" to you in which way you should spend your money, to benifit the whole and make sure your not the "loser" in any given situation. Now if you ask me thats more protective then here, plus in Europe it is much better managed(mostly due to lower population). Here however people can cheat the government so easily out of money its not even funny. The statistics are horrendous, the rift between rich and poor terrible, this country is letting mopolization and corporation take over once again. BECAUSE, they havent set any limits on the free trade and the world economy. More and more companies cheat the citizens of this country out of proper services and gauge their fees, just because they have the money to lobby the government into submition about anything.

Sure the voice of the people counts more in this country. But, the true question is that what people truely get to speak? The poor, the middle classed, no the rich. Only a few times in the history of this country have people ever gained power without having money from birth. It takes millions of the "avarage" citizens to agree on one thing for the government to take action on it. While with the rich it takes a silver tongue, and a suitcase full of cash.

I think your wrong about the EU, they have more power economically, and scientifically than this country, on a private basis. What i mean by this is that over there many companies conduct research that companies here are stifled to do. Many biological experiments have been conducted there, than here because the "oldfashioned" money-hogs think its "unethical" and lobby the government to keep away what they dont want. There the rich are more constrained and the common people get more of a voice. Though at what price we might never really know.

oh god, how your sentances ooze socialism.
just about everything you pointed out is restrictive socialistic attitude. and no, europe doesnt have the richest upper classes. thats the point.

they have more power economically, and scientifically than this country,

like hell. EU doesnt give a rats ass about who learns what, our government supports and advances technology in just about everything. ever heard of google? microsoft? how about pratt and whitney?
these are the leaders in all fields of research (US based), just because some bible-wrapped conservatives oppose stem cell research (which is almost COMPLETELY moot, its a dead end in scientific terms, nothing is gained, nothing improved, and worst of all their propensity to grow into tumors is massive... its quite disturbing that anyone hangs on to this biological myth) doesnt mean that we restrict research.
and Europe's economy is a transient one, they rely on exporting their imports, and fine cheeses. their economy is stable granted, but far from progressive. its quite laughable, actually.
Europe relies on the US for all its high tech imports, there is hardly a microchip that enters there not from the USA. They have contributed some nice little things on the side (like the miscuito) but nothing actually revolutionary or progressive, and their conservative policies on cash have stifled growth. Europe is at a full and complete dead end, they have no direction in which to go forward, and they cling to us for the newest in just about anything. the international spacestation is a great example of that.
Dont get me wrong, they're a great example of a pragmatic system of government, catered perfectly to their peoples needs. but its far from comparable to the US.

gah, this board is malfunctioning again, I posted and it gave me a "failed '\' runtime error" message.

ok, here I go, just because I'm a snob who likes to rub things in (or rather, prove my arguement, if you so please)

Using the purchasing power parity method of computing GDP, the preferred comparative measure of economic output, the EU and the US economies are virtually the same size ($12.36 trillion for the US vs. $12.18 trillion for the EU).[2] As the EU has 50% more people than the US, but produces about the same economically the average EU citizen enjoys a per capita share of domestic product of about USD $28,100, while in the US the per person GDP is over USD $40,000.

that, should be conclusive evidence. and considering that the US 40 grand is about equal to the average person in the US, I should think that shoots down your arguement about disparity being a comparitive issue. (i.e. our people may earn less in comparison to our rich, but we earn almost 33% more than their average person. so I'm more than happy)

Some of this info is just a bit inaccurate. The reports filled for the EU economny are only filed by certain members of the Union who have fully incorportated its economical laws. Countries such as Britain have not done so, and Britain has long remained the central economic power in the world.

Your wroung about computer technology, a lot of their computers come from the Japanesse and not the US. Because, the US has hard currency and its exporting system is very poorly managed, it is cheaper to buy thing like cellphones, and computers from lower and eastern asia. However mp3 players and other electronics do ofcourse come out of US, but its dwindeling. The US itself is coming to a cross road, one road will lead to prosperity and more liberties(or more concurrent liberties), the other one to a depression.

I mistated, when i said technology i meant technology angeled towards biology and such. Its clear that just like the 20th century was the atomic age, that this century will be one of Biology. And your wrong about stem cells, although they have a possibility of becoming tumors, thats only if they are malnuerished(sp?) or if there are other extraneous things like toxins or radiation. The process of actually growing the new orgams is still very questionable, plus the dna might not be as stable, because it is from an embryo andd might not be able to incorporate correctly with the body it will be entered too. But, there are risks in everything hopefully the new congres will try something to get this country out of a feeling of boom and bust, i mean before George Bush we had THE greatest economy in the world, now we are being challanged left and right. The rest of the worlds resentment to our arrogance seems to be becoming overwhelming. In my opinion, i think we stuck our nose into too much of other peoples bussiness.

. And your wrong about stem cells

ohohoho, you dont want to get into this arguement over this with me. I've had many projects geared into the subject, and its not that simple. not at all. the cells are practically useless, they create all sorts of wacky things that noone expects (and as of yet, noone understands), and are in NO way the miracle that they are portrayed to be. there have even been transplanted stem cells that have been completely REJECTED by the donor/recipients body. isnt that wierd, eh?

Countries such as Britain have not done so, and Britain has long remained the central economic power in the world.

no, this is in fact including britain and the other "eurozone countries", first of all. and second of all, no britan isn't the central economic power of the world, hasn't been so for a long time, that title belongs solely to America (and will probably soon be shared with China and India).
do you know what a hyperpower is? theres a reason that America is called one. France and Britan, meh... not so much, perhaps a couple of superpowers, but not a hyper one.

Your wroung about computer technology, a lot of their computers come from the Japanesse and not the US

those companies are in Japan because they provide a highly skilled, but relatively cheaper labor source. the heads of such things as Sony and Microsoft (not nintendo) are based in America, and the actuall technological R&D is in fact, here.

Britain has long remained the central economic power in the world.

actually, Europe is dying out (sniff), they are dealing with a vastly aging, and deminishing populace (classical upside down delta environment). the result is a slow exit stage-left from world power. and Britain, sorry to break your bubble, has left the "head of everything" to us for a while now.
sure, Europe will continue to be a vastly important world market (largest in terms of pure size) and will continue to contribute to the world stage, but not on America or the far East's level.

[ Its clear] that this century will be one of Biology

highly unlikely, I can tell you. Biology is amazing as a subjective analyzer, but beyond that its not very good at much of anything, computation, medical aid, mechanics. all of these are neigh impossible for biology to do. we're going to be sticking to our computers and robots for a while.

now, to be clear I dont mean that America is the central-everything, Europe does run a close second in terms of technological advancement. but generally America tends to be just above everyone on these things. There are really few arenas that America doesnt excell at (healthcare being one of them). people dont like to give credit to a government system based on greed, but in truth its about the only truly functional system as of yet to exist as it's principle expected it to. (hooray for philosophers who accounted for human evils!)