Draginol Draginol

REALLY nasty AI!

REALLY nasty AI!

How Next-Gen AI can be done...

So I got my new Quadcore in. 2.667Ghz of Quadcore power.  I love it.  And as an AI developer, the future looks increasingly bright with features such as Quadcore coming.  Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, will support Dualcore CPUs. If you turn up the CPU options, more advanced algorithms come into play.

But think of a future where Quadcore is common.  I could have, literally, a thread dedicated to doing nothing else than statistical analysis of data running in the background.  Such power would allow the AI to start storing a great deal of data that would be persistent. Your strategies could be written to disk and then analysed in future games by the AI.  It's something I definitely want to put into our next game (a fantasy strategy game) in some form so that the AI really does learn over the course of multiple games. 

These concepts are nothing new of course. Neural Nets/Expert Systems have long been discussed in AI circles.  What is changing is that some of these techniques become quite viable when you're dealing with a large % of your gamer base having multiple core CPUs.  Now, threads that do nothing but sift through data become possible. Even a brute force asynchronous thread could result with significantly more intelligent computer players.

Which got us to thinking -- why play on-line at all if we can make the computer players be exactly like human beings. I mean, we could let you choose between the various griefer types out there (the disconnector, the whiner, the jerk, etc.) and then take it to the max. Bringing us to our final destination:

Player sits down on a Friday night to play Galactic Civilizations III, loads up the game, and starts.

Upon contact with the Drengin Empire...

Drengin: "So Brad, I see you're playing again on another Friday night. That's pretty sad. Last Friday you played for 5 hours. According to your Tivo, you didn't record Battlestar Galactic. Loser. So, you going to do your usual build up a massive army while trading with me to get good relations and then attack? Because, this week we're playing by my rules. That's right. Here's how tonight's game is going to go.  You're going to let me win. If you quit or defeat me I'm going to upload those baby pictures I found in 'My Documents' up to the Internet.  You're going to lose and you're going to suck it down.   Also, you're going to exterminate the Torian Conferation.  Each game you buddy up to those freaks and I'm sick of it. So this time you're going to betray them like you did me.  Yes yes, I know that the Torians have access to your MySpace page but that's a chance you're going to have to take..."

..

Ah yes, we will finally be able to make computer players as malicious as real life human beings! By having them remember between games we can simulate grudges and with a few extra cores, have it learn all about you. EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU.

Drengin: "So you're doing pretty good I see. Lots of money. LOL. Well Brad, I happened to look at your Quicken account while I was waiting around for you to move your Battle cruisers -- yea, I see them -- Duh. anyway, clearly you are better at managing your economy than managing your own checkbook. I mean, good god, $314 at McDonalds last week? No wonder you keep buying workout equipment. Hey, I have free advice for you -- quit eating fast food!"

..

Obviously that utopian vision of computer opponents is far into the future. :)

Seriously though, one can't help but get very excited about the prospect of being able to start making real use of those Dual and Quadcores. Dedicated background threads doing data analysis from previous games could result in far more effective and interesting computer opponents.

98,970 views 68 replies
Reply #51 Top

(Just closing the italics tag opened by sir_unimaginative above. Stardock might want to check the board settings regarding open tags etc. )
Reply #52 Top
I guess I'll have to put the Dual Core 4400 in and find a new home for my 3700 San Diego so I can recieve all of the evil I deserve.
Reply #53 Top
If the AI could do stuff like that, I'd watch my back...Especially if its a Drengin.

NEVER TRUST A DRENGIN!
Reply #54 Top
Jesus Freaking Christ.

I just got a new PC with a Core 2 Duo processor. It's nice to know all this time that Stardock has been plotting ways to use it against me. Damn!
Reply #55 Top
Stardock has been plotting ways to use it against me. Damn!

I wouldn't worry about Stardock, but Microsoft has been doing this for years.
Reply #56 Top
ROFL!!

This must really be them funniest post ive ever seen in this forum, specially estab and mumblefratz LOLL

I just bought a E6600 and it runs GalCiv2 FRAKINGLY SUPER INCREDIBLY AMAZINGLY FASTTTTTT!!!!111
I didnt even know my 6800GT could go this fast is awsome, I can even have 2x AntiAliasing on with 1280x1024 and everything maxed and the game loads in just 40 secs!! and when Im playin on a Gigantic map with over 410+ planets colonized and enter the colony managment screen it doesnt even take 5 SECONDS , FRAKKING AWSOME!!!

Well worth the 300 bucks, WOOGHOOO



Monc34
Reply #57 Top
I just bought a E6600 and it runs GalCiv2 FRAKINGLY SUPER INCREDIBLY AMAZINGLY FASTTTTTT!!!!111

I'm glad to here this, my E6600 is on the way and I've only been hoping that it will be an improvement. From what you're saying it sounds like it will. I can't wait.   
Reply #58 Top
I am going to demand more PLAYER stuff, since there's plenty of processing power to go around.

Let's talk about the scouts for the player are all dumb (except for the first one) and just follow the leader. AI players use scouts efficiently.

Aside from that I'd also want some ADVISORS capable of analysis and reports. Compare your race with another and compare component space broke down by hull type, taking into account each race's miniaturization. THEN show each races best weapon and size and compare how many of yours you can fit into a ship VS them, specifying number of engines, and taking into account engine types.. Still got enough processing power ?

Economic advisor like Alan Greenspan. Well maybe not, but someone who's 'the man' handling your finances. Help find best world to build capitals on. Optimize planet(s) for manufacture, research, culture, tax base. The computer AI already does this stuff, I imagine. Making screens and showing/giving the player some help would be appreciated.

Trade advisor. That shows factors and what would apply when you meet with each race. Also when (how many turns) before you can talk to them again. What kind of trades they favor, and how many credits to 'bribe them up a notch' in friendlier relations.





Reply #59 Top
Aside from that I'd also want some ADVISORS capable of analysis and reports. Compare your race with another and compare component space broke down by hull type, taking into account each race's miniaturization. THEN show each races best weapon and size and compare how many of yours you can fit into a ship VS them, specifying number of engines, and taking into account engine types.. Still got enough processing power ?

Economic advisor like Alan Greenspan. Well maybe not, but someone who's 'the man' handling your finances. Help find best world to build capitals on. Optimize planet(s) for manufacture, research, culture, tax base. The computer AI already does this stuff, I imagine. Making screens and showing/giving the player some help would be appreciated.

Trade advisor. That shows factors and what would apply when you meet with each race. Also when (how many turns) before you can talk to them again. What kind of trades they favor, and how many credits to 'bribe them up a notch' in friendlier relations.

Compared to a great AI these things should be relatively straightforward to implement and not challenge computing power that much.
Reply #60 Top
You start up the game, the AI takes over your speech synthesizer and says:

"This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied dead. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die...We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple."

(the reference here should be easy for any fan of evil computer movies)
Reply #61 Top
Aside from that I'd also want some ADVISORS capable of analysis and reports.

Be careful of what you ask for. This sounds too much like MOO3 to me. Plus how can you beat an AI by simply taking an AI's advice.

As far as I'm concerned the AI can use all the cores it can get. The goal of getting an AI that can hold it's own playing the same game without bonus against a human is an admirable goal. We're just not quite there yet.
Reply #62 Top
Your strategies could be written to disk and then analysed in future games by the AI


AAAAccccuuuaaallly... this is conceivable on relatively light hardware if done right .
Here at Drexel University, there is an AI professor doing research on this exact thing. I know because I did some work for him for about a week filling in for my buddy Tony who has been working on it for 3 years. They did this for Age of Empires II, an RTS, which I'm pretty sure is more processor intensive. You'd be amazed at how fast perl or python's regular expressions can pull back information from a large log file.
Reply #63 Top
Drengin found my porn
Reply #64 Top
I definitely think it'd be funny if the AIs could remember how previous games went. When I start a new game, it's really annoying in that they never give me an excuse to kick their arses.

...and that way, you could have some races begging for mercy before you even met!
Reply #66 Top
A.I commenting on your myspace, checkaccount and stuff sounds pretty scary but would be helluva fun if you give it access to specific dirs on your computer with special names and then it says things based on that information (hmm would probably start looking on my computercase to see if it really is alive....)

Remembering games sounds good. Like you mostly play a special map as Highmen and the Undead say something like: "You know....your abuse of holy avengers last time was pretty cheap...just wait for next patch when they hit by the nerfstick". Then you go online and start looking for new patchnotes and realise that the A.I is just messing with you

But on the subject of quadcores and the A.I learning your strategies....great
And getting them uploaded automatically to a masterserver and compared against other strats would result in damn good A.I!

Awaiting further Dev Journals about cpu and A.I with interest
Reply #67 Top
What about the new pcie 8800 video card generation? It has the capability to process game AI internally while I am running AMD64x2 dual core. Plus its faster than just using a dual core. It could handle most of the AI recursions necessary for on the fly analysis of player moves ... allowing the dual core AI sufficient time to modify the search trees similar to how chess algorithms work????

come on are ya temped yet
  
Reply #68 Top
I'm running dual-core with DA 1.61, but the game only uses 50% capacity, even with the "force max cpu" option on. Do I need to toggle an option in the prefs.ini file?