Gameplay Report Card for Beta 1A

Initial impressions of the beta.

So far I've played two games (large & gigantic) with the Dark Avatar beta 1a and I really like what I see! The game feels not only fresh again but overall just more interesting.

I had to stop both due to technical issues and I've already submitted bug reports and suggestions via email. Rather than repeat those reports here, I thought I post some of my general feelings about the gameplay (not UI or technical) additions and see what everybody else thinks too. These thoughts acknowledge that this is a beta and that many of these things aren't play balanced yet, etc. It's just a my general impression at this point on the new features so far:

DIFFERENT WORLD TYPES - Grade: A

- They really break up the traditional colony rush which is a good thing. I always found the initial rush a tedious but critical portion of the game. With the different world types, there is now additional strategy involved in the land grab which makes it more interesting. e.g. I was racing another colony ship for a couple of planets in my space. Upon comparing technologies I saw he could only colonize one of them while I could grab either. Of course I took the one that we had in common and got both at the end of the day.

- It also leaves a few worlds available until mid-game which can tip the balance or offer a foothold where it would be otherwise difficult to obtain. Playing on a gigantic map I found two class 1 restricted planets that the AI had ignored well into the mid-game. I grabbed them both and they turned out to be potential class 16 worlds! It took some work to build the colony with the expensive buildings I had at that point but...

- Lastly, it also makes you rethink your early tech-tree path. I have a fairly regular start progression but now there is value in interrupting that to take advantage of colonization opportunities. Once again - a good thing.

ASTERIOD MINING - Grade: B

- I *really* like the idea but, unlike the world types, I didn't find that this enhanced the strategy all that much. Now that part of my industry had moved off world I just had to be more patient about getting my resources. Because they flip with influence, I was reasonably assured that I would eventually get the mining centers close to my planets. The ones further away, offer a smaller bonus so gaining/losing them wasn't as severe anyway. I didn't do the math and was just playing on 'feel' but overall it didn't make me play much differently.

- Well, what it did make me do differently was micro-manage my ships around them. Asteroids slow your ship movement to 1 when you pass through them. Currently, the AI has not been upgraded to fly around them even if you have enough speed. So, if you aren't paying attention, your speedy ships will fly straight through them an you'll lose a couple of turns (flying in where you'll stop, and flying out at speed 1). Once the AI path finding is upgraded (I'm assuming this isn't a design decision) it will be fine.

- I've seen the suggestion on several other posts about making resources in non-star-system-asteriods instead of free floating "balls". This makes a lot of intuitive sense but obviously changes the strategy quite a bit as miners - not constructors - would been needed. Also, they would be susceptible to influence flip just like other mines. Because these super mines are so valuable (and unprotected) they would get quite a cluster of influence star bases built around them. They'd also probably need baby-sitting during conflict as they wouldn't be star bases anymore with the ability to defend themselves. I'm really not sure if a change that major would be good or not but it would certainly shake up existing strategies. Personally, I'm undecided at this point but would be interested in hearing opinions.

MEGA EVENTS - Grade: Potential A but jury is still out...

- Once again, I like the design decision to shake things up and - depending on how they finally get implemented - I expect to like them a lot. Without random events, the end game can get tedious when victory is basically assured. But, in each game I've played only the super-acceleration of a particular race was triggered. It didn't turn out to be that much of a threat in my games and this particular event I believe was already present in 1.4 anyway. I have yet to experience "The Plague" but look forward to the panic

SPYS - Grade: C

- Although I expect to be in the minority here, at this point I don't find spies that compelling. I felt that the only real value to using them was on major buildings like Manufacturing Capitals or special one-of-a-kind structures. The problem here was finding the damn things. I had to click on each world and hunt around for them which I found tedious (does the AI have the same restriction? i.e. can't place spy if your planet is in his fog of war?). Perhaps I'm just not used to them yet but all I did was keep some in reserve to nullify the spies used against me or protect existing structures. It felt like a resource drain rather that a major strategic tool. However, I acknowledge that this may just be my current gameplay style and I may just need to get used to them. What is the general vibe out there? Yay? Nay? or Meh...?

SUPER ABILITIES - Grade: A


- These definitely need balancing but they do give distinct personalities to each race. Brad has his work cut out for him getting these right. It's hard enough to balance units when each AI has the *same* unit types. But balancing between different unique and powerful ones? Tricky! But they are a great addition!

SHIP TEMPLATES - Grade: A

- This is a great stop forward but I'd suggest tweaking this even more by limiting ships by racial type. Sure, you can offer parts sets that revolve around a certain style but in the end, let us do what we want - at least for custom races. Give access to ALL ship parts/styles. In my second game I played custom again (I always do) but changed the base ship style to see what other parts might be available. When I started playing however, I found that I couldn't use the ship templates I'd made last game because I had picked a different part style this time. What the heck, give us the freedom to mix and match as we wish. Why not?

- Also, when building a new *template*, give access to ALL the hulls and non-functional parts (once again with no style limits). Sometimes, I just feel like making a new ship for the next time I play or whatever. Unless I save an many endgames with all the hull sizes researched where I'm playing each of the different races (to access their styles). I can't just jump in and make any type of ship I want.

- Kryo's hull system mod is amazing and the ship designs are awesome! I use those exclusively when playing Dread Lords. It will be amazing to be able to trade template designs with other players!

I've obviously got too much time on my hands tonight. Man this got wordy - sorry about that Keep up the good work guys. Way to make a great game better!!!

23,126 views 38 replies
Reply #1 Top
Whoa!!! Holy eyesight charts Batman!!! Sorry about the MEGA FONT. Perhaps a moderator could help me with that as there is no EDIT POST option I can see.

Didn't mean to shout   
Reply #2 Top
All fixed...thanks for the feedback, psborg!
Reply #3 Top
Too much emphasis on spies. Not enough emphasis on improving ass kicking.

Flipping asteroid mines with influence is ludicrous. What do you think would happen if a West Virginia coal mine decided that the US sucks and all coal is going to China?

Spies are overdone. An additional slider for counter-espionage would have been good enough for a lot of players.

Pirates are ignored. This game needs a criminal underworld between the fog of war. Space is big, right? Dealing with pirates and smugglers is orders of magnitude more appealing than dealing with spies.

Starbases. Either make them cheaper or make them captureable.
Reply #4 Top
Pirates are ignored. This game needs a criminal underworld between the fog of war. Space is big, right? Dealing with pirates and smugglers is orders of magnitude more appealing than dealing with spies.

Starbases. Either make them cheaper or make them captureable.


My sentiments exactly.  
Reply #5 Top
Man this got wordy - sorry about that

Actually, nice write up. Thanks.
Reply #6 Top

Flipping asteroid mines with influence is ludicrous. What do you think would happen if a West Virginia coal mine decided that the US sucks and all coal is going to China?

Inaccurate example. Our take is this....some American miners (from , I suppose) get orders to set up a lucrative coal mine in . The miners get to bring their families, their pets, and their possessions, but they're basically being forced to move thousands of mies away from their home.

Once they get to , they get pampered by the fine cuisine, the well fitting pants, and a lifestyle that they enjoy more. They then decide to turn their backs on the nation that stuck them there and strike up a deal with their new favorite race, the Chinese.

Now take that example and multiply the miner's distance from home by a billion...that's where you get mining bases revolting. 

As for spies vs. improved ass-kicking, our goal was always to make interesting and viable ways to win beyond the obvious ‘war’. Espionage has always been left on the back-burner, and we wanted to make it a more substantial feature. So now, you still get your ass-kicking battleships, but now you also have the power to take down an empire by less obvious measures.

Reply #7 Top
Once they get to China, they get pampered by the fine cuisine, the well fitting pants, and a lifestyle that they enjoy more. They then decide to turn their backs on the nation that stuck them there and strike up a deal with their new favorite race, the Chinese.

Of course, it's actually far more likely that they would get stuck in a prison getting paid thirty cents a day to make crap to fill up the shelves in the local Walmart back in West Virgina.   

But joking aside, it's a game, it doesn't require a foundation in reality.
Reply #9 Top
- I've seen the suggestion on several other posts about making resources in non-star-system-asteriods instead of free floating "balls". This makes a lot of intuitive sense but obviously changes the strategy quite a bit as miners - not constructors - would been needed. Also, they would be susceptible to influence flip just like other mines. Because these super mines are so valuable (and unprotected) they would get quite a cluster of influence star bases built around them. They'd also probably need baby-sitting during conflict as they wouldn't be star bases anymore with the ability to defend themselves. I'm really not sure if a change that major would be good or not but it would certainly shake up existing strategies. Personally, I'm undecided at this point but would be interested in hearing opinions.


With the introduction of Asteroids, I'd like to see those balls of uber resources go away. I always thought they were a bit silly in the first place.
What I'd like to see instead would be the new asteroids taking their place, and when an asteroid field is mined by a base, there would be x% chance that it contains a valuable resource, ie. the Influence, Military, Morale, Economy, ect.

This would put more focus on the Asteroids and make them attractive, and less about floating balls of greatness.
Reply #10 Top
and less about floating balls of greatness.


I saw these one time in a swimming pool in Florida.  I don't know that I would have said they were "great"... but it definitely shows you the importance of wearing a jock strap.      
Reply #11 Top

But joking aside, it's a game, it doesn't require a foundation in reality.


In all seriousness, yes it does.

Science fiction isn't about the future. It's about now. Ever wonder why historical games like Civilization sell more than science fiction? Ever wonder why normal people wouldn't touch Space Empires V with a 10 foot pole?

Part of the success of Galactic Civilizations is that it's connected to stuff people inherently comprehend. Military, social, research. Laser, missiles, bullets. Small, medium, large, massive war vessels. Farming, morale, diplomacy, etc.

Until you get deep into the weapons/defenses branches, everything has a real world equivalent that is either tangible or part of the culture.

well fitting pants


I disagree
Reply #12 Top
lol  Wheel, I don't want to know how you found that...how absurdly perfect. 
Reply #13 Top
I wrote it as my debut column for the Alligator while studying political science at the University of Florida.
Reply #14 Top
In all seriousness, yes it does.

Really the major point of my post was the social commentary about China, which seemed to be a good part of your point as well.

But the part about foundation in reality is at least partially true. It's nice to have realism in the game, but at the same time let's not get carried away with an insistence on it. A certain ability to suspend disbelief is an integral part of any good SciFi book, movie, show, game or whatever. Where exactly did the first "skin job" cylons come from anyway?
Reply #15 Top
Where exactly did the first "skin job" cylons come from anyway?

[cynicism]
Actors who did not want to hide their face behind a metal mask?

Producers who did not want to spend their money on metal suits?
[/cynicism]

Reply #16 Top
The galactic resources are Precursor artifacts that were left behind. They're not arbitrary magical space balls.
Reply #17 Top

BTW, great feedback.

I'm a bit bummed to see that agents aren't well loved.  The thing about them is that a few spies on your planets really don't do much damage but many players really dislike the concept of havign even a single spie on their worlds.

We are adding a technology called counter-espionage that provided a building that makes a planet invulnerable to spies.

The idea with spies is that you can players can gang up on the top player. It puts some strategy into not being blatantly out in front.

Reply #18 Top
So how about it Brad... are we going to see more with regards to Space Pirates?  
Reply #19 Top
Criminal element between the fog of war... very compelling.

It can also serve as a way to increase experience for the fleet without declaring war on somebody.
Reply #20 Top
It can also serve as a way to increase experience for the fleet without declaring war on somebody.


Are we stealing each other's notes or what Wheel? I've always thought that the experience factor with regards to taking on rogue vessels/pirates was the heart of the issue. It would be nice to cruise the galaxy in search of some combat options without resorting to open warfare. Not only would you gain experience, it is also a good way to test out new ship designs as well as weapon/defense sets. I have more thoughts regarding pirates and their inherent uses but I would settle for the very basic things... like just having pirates in the game a little more often.  
Reply #21 Top

It can also serve as a way to increase experience for the fleet without declaring war on somebody.


What is this? Warcraft? =\ boo RTS element
Reply #22 Top
It's so true though, I just bought 2 pairs of pants that are supposed to be the same size, of course only thought to try one of them on doh. It turns out that the other pair is 2 sizes smaller around the waist and the store doesn't believe me and won't take them back, and of course now they're delayed so much that I've ran out of time in the return policy.
Reply #23 Top
What is this? Warcraft? =\ boo RTS element


Didn't look at it as an RTS kind of thing n0v4k4n3, so, sorry if I offended you.  I just think that building a fleet's experience levels outside of open warfare should be doable in this game and pirates seem to be the only solution to the problem. And no, I don't want to see a "combat simulator" situation.  
Reply #24 Top
I have to agree that spies need a lot of work. It seems that the AI is able to produce spies far faster than the player -- in my case even when I have the strongest economy I am never able to rid all of the spies off of my worlds... even when I dedicate the maximum amount of resources to producing spies. I can't really spy back, because I need to concentrate all of my effort on getting spies off of my world or else my production is crippled.

A counter-espionage slider as well as a spy training slider is the way to go IMO. Also, the entire thing where your spy production time scales with your economic power is highly annoying.

Edit:

I like to play on smaller galaxies, so I have fewer worlds. The way I play I have a few planets that are absolutely crucial to production. I can't, for the life of me, get all the spies off of those worlds. On a larger galaxy this would be less important as a single world is worth much less. This is another argument against scaling the costs for spies with the strength of your economy: playing on larger galaxies means more planets, and higher economic output, but the same production of spies. Thus, spies become impossible to balance for both large and small galaxies.

I also have to agree with the OP in regards to mining bases. They add a random element, but not that much strategic depth, and it is far easier for the player to take them over via influence than the AI.
Reply #25 Top
Real spies are dedicated to gathering information, nothing more. James Bond doesn't have anything close to a real life equivalent. I think Dread Lords got it right with spies and only needed counter-espionage spending.

Spies aren't shutting down Ford or Boeing. There probably are, however, spies in both companies gathering information for their bosses.

The pirates can be part of the already existing and under-developed random event of pirates. They are running spice from Devda to Marshall, find them and apprehend (if we could capture ships) or destroy them. Pirates might hide in existing trade routes because space is big.

Make clearing the fog of war worth the investment.