Is Islam a threat to Occident?

from JoeUser Forums
(posted in another post, but I though it deserved it's own blog)

This topic regards the actual dangers the Muslims are to the Occident as a whole. I am not speaking of "danger of people being blown up" (your chances of dying of cancers are way higher), but the danger to our actual way of living

You should consider the fact that, if Islam is really at war as a whole against us, then it's doing a quite poor job winning. But in the scale of their actions, they couldn't do better.

explanation:

Extremists Islamists are using terrorism against us. what is terrorism? In short, it's a guerrila warfare targeting only the civilian population, in order to spread terror, and lower morale.

They cannot hope to destroy us all. They haven't ennough people or weaponry to blow us all. heck, America & Europe are so spreaded, they would need most of the world's Muslims to actually manage to kill us all. Even with Nuclear weaponry, if Iran manage to gets it, won't be ennough.

They cannot hope to conquer us all either. They would need, in theory, massive occupation army to actually beat our military fair and square (not invasion can work based solely on terrorism). The story posted in "the shape of things to come" was quite laughable. Come on, when (and HOW?) will we see the first Troop transports coming from Iran to conquer New York?

Could all the muslims immigrants rise and try to overthrow our governements, our way of living? I doubt it will work very well, because the (south park quote!) band of pissed-off muslims are a minority. Especially in the USA, where integration is way, way better than in Europe.

Any kind of warfare you describe as "acceptable" would be a total suicide on the islamists' part. Why? Because, let's face it, we are the best at this game. That's why we ended up owning the world during Colonial Empires. even now, our weaponry is vastly superior, and we have the guts to defend against an openly-declared ennemy to the bitter end.

That's leave the pussy tactic called "terrorism", and that's about all they can do to us. The bee that will eventually drive the bear crazy. Simply small stings, while never stopping. We let our pride blind ourselves to the fact that maybe, MAYBE, there is no military solution to this problem. We would better off trying to solve problems like AIDS or cancer, or internal criminality rather than hunting terrorist worldwide, only worsening the problem (because, let's face it, the problem just worsened since 2001.)

But that's where we are kinda idiot. Their only goal is to plunge us into a total fear, driving us to a frenzy where we will act stupidly.

It worked. Americans are more afraid than ever, so are most of the European countries. but America is about 300% more scared than any of them. Even if they are the ones who are the least vulnerable. Your politicans played right into the terrorists' hand. "We are in danger. Alert Orange Level"

If someone is threatening our way of living, it's the Bush Administration who've changed some fundemental rights of your country to fight a bunch of criminals. Crazy criminals, maybe, but still criminals. That IS a menace to our way of life way more than the terrorists will ever be.

Or we let them be.

"If they want to destroy paradise, they'll have to do it themselves. We won't do it for them" - Capt. Benjamin Sisko, 2372
politics
2,238 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
We let our pride blind ourselves to the fact that maybe, MAYBE, there is no military solution to this problem. - Cikomyr

We would better off trying to solve problems like AIDS or cancer, or internal criminality rather than hunting terrorist worldwide, only worsening the problem (because, let's face it, the problem just worsened since 2001.) - Cikomyr

If someone is threatening our way of living, it's the Bush Administration who've changed some fundemental rights of your country to fight a bunch of criminals. - Cikomyr

I very much agree with the above observations.



Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is no answer an.. agrement? A rebuttal? Or just "I really don't know what the heck to answer to this"?
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

If someone is threatening our way of living, it's the Bush Administration who've changed some fundemental rights of your country to fight a bunch of criminals.

Well for one thing you haven't lost any of your "fundamental" rights. 

We tried appeasing terrorists for years, and Sept. 11 is what we ended up with.  You cannot talk with islamic terrorists, you cannot negoiate wtih them. 

Could all the muslims immigrants rise and try to overthrow our governements, our way of living?

Right now no, but look at how the islamic population is growing in europe.  Look at the riots in France, I forget which official in one of those countries said he would even consider Sharia law if the people wanted it. 

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well for one thing you haven't lost any of your "fundamental" rights


Habeas Corpus was a fundemental right, no?

We tried appeasing terrorists for years, and Sept. 11 is what we ended up with


Can you say things have improved since 9/11? The problem went exponential to the Nth degree, with some parts due to unwarranted military actions.

The whole "Terror War" is a marketing war. No a military one. You have to convince the Muslims moderates that you are a better option than the terrorists. And that convincing is getting quite hard to do with every "mishaps" your military force makes.

Right now no, but look at how the islamic population is growing in europe. Look at the riots in France, I forget which official in one of those countries said he would even consider Sharia law if the people wanted it.


Strange. Since France is one of the few country that put in law the forbidance of any religious symbol in schools, I would say it would be a long way before they fall under theocratic rule.

And riots were caused not by angry muslims who wanted sharia rule, but by un-integrated immigrants who were sick of being kept into ghettos, with no hope of exciting. Islam hadn't anything to do with it, only integration of non-white immigrants.
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
Islam hadn't anything to do with it, only integration of non-white immigrants.


Maybe. But there are 30 million Muslims in Western Europe, and their numbers are growing fast, while the native population is aging and dying.
And integrating those, who are opposed to core principles of a system is not an easy job either.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
And integrating those, who are opposed to core principles of a system is not an easy job either.


You haven't that kind of problem in USA (or at least, not to that scale). I know that the % of well-integrated muslims (or any legal foreigners, for that matters) are sky-high in your country. So I say the problem is more with the native population's reticence toward immigrants than any real problem on the Muslim's or other immigrants' part.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Strange. Since France is one of the few country that put in law the forbidance of any religious symbol in schools, I would say it would be a long way before they fall under theocratic rule.

Just a matter of time.

SECRET courts imposing draconian Islamic justice are operating across Britain.

Last night politicians and religious leaders expressed outrage that sharia law is gaining an increasing foothold in our society.

The hardline Islamic law allows people to be stoned to death, beheaded or have their limbs amputated.

Critics insisted Labour was allowing a chaotic two-tier legal system to flourish in the name of political correctness.

And legal experts warned that it meant the authority of British justice was being undermined. Sharia law dates back to the 10th century.

http://express.lineone.net/news_detail.html?sku=793

 

 

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just a matter of time.


Totaly. However, it's a matter of time before Sharia became totally outlawed. Here in Quebec, we are considered to be really friendly to immigrants (still some work to do), but when the idea of allowing the Sharia in Canada was bringed up, the Quebec National Assembly voted to ban the Sharia forever from any legal system on it's territory (Province of Quebec).

(off course, english-canada papers immediatly criticized us for being intolerant. But when Ontario did the same, a few months later, they said it was a good thing)

If there is a revolt in Europe, it won't be to institutionnalize any religious regime, but simply to allow a better integration of the immigrants. White-French are so intolerant toward other races it's disgusting. No wonder they had to take it to the streets.

Nothing to do with Islam.