The EG always sounded like a great idea that pushed the boundaries of interactive fiction. That said, it may be frustrating to see it go but I'd rather have you guys spend your resources on actual gameplay items.

I do think it would be nice to have the logging and screenshot features enabled.   

This feature is classic overengineering - too much in too little time. But that doesn't mean its a bad idea.

I wouldn't scrap the epic generator altogether - its really cool for those of us who like to write AARs and is a really neat feature.

I would change the scope so that it is managable for you to create and gives more control to the user.

why not change the epic generator somewhat so that there is player has full control over what is logged via a hot key press and the ability to enter their own comments?

Have a hot key whereby the game takes a snapshot of the screen and brings up a window where the player can enter in comments about what is going on.

have all the results placed into a series of HTML pages that the player can view once the game is complete.

I was actually thinking that if you and your enemy have fleets in the same sector for which a battle would be interesting (that is, it could go either way) then you might at least get an inconspicuous prompt saying 'this is a moment that should be captured for posterity' - then it's essentially up to the player whether they want to grab a screenie showing the fleets positioning to attack (or retreat) - but also a ping on the mini-map might be an idea, so you don't forget to actually perform those attacks.

We have new events that we want to create, new United Planets issues that would be specific to the new game mechanics, and a load of little polish features that would drastically increase the quality of the game-part of DA.

That sentence is reason enough to cut the EG.

I totally understand and appreciate the dilemma. But, please, consider keeping it in a future release... If it doesn't appear in the upcoming expansion, that's cool. But maybe it could be a release between this and the next expansion?? Pretty please?

Ah, too bad for the Epic Generator (and Boogiebac's hard work, of course), but something might still be salvageable. Based on my own experiences and what seems to be the consensus here, I would suggest you implement the following plan (the steps are listed in decreasing importance and estimated practicality) by:

1.) Shutting off work on the Epic Generator - as everyone has said, it will probably turn into a risky and/or costly logistical battle at the expense of other fun little features. It is a great idea in theory, and might be implementable in a future expansion or sequel, but we all (or at least most) would understand if it got set aside for now. You might also build the skeleton for it and leave players to fill in the rest, of course.

2.) Putting in a Data Log - something that could record the hard facts in the game, perhaps with a taunt or two thrown in by the AI This would allow players to write their own stories, and would allow a lot more creativity in them.

3.) Putting in an Easy Screenshot Capture - some function and hotkey that lets you easily and efficiently take high-quality screenshots. A function that lets you organize them and/or add comments to them would also be appreciated, which leads into the next step ...

4.) Putting in a Photo Album or Storybook Editor - ideally, something styled after what is available in The Sims 2 and similar games. What I am searching for is a component of the game that lets you access the Data Log and Screenshot Log, and use them to easily create a story or gameplay example. The gameplay examples the Brad and others periodically upload are great examples of how this system could work: stories composed primarily of text but with annotated screenshots giving life to it. Giving us a relatively simple tool to do that would be greatly appreciated, and would go great with the next step.

5.) A Web database (or subcategory of the existing one) built specifically for such gameplay examples, or a forum or other medium made with accessibility first in mind.

Of course, I realize that the later 2 features might possibly take more effort than the Epic Generator, but they would be a great substitute for all interested parties, until technology develops enough for you to [realisticly] program computers to write "Epics".

Whatever you do, good luck, and know that you have my support!

I;m going to have to chime in as one of the people who would love to at least see the logging data stay in. While I would love to see the epic generator, the data could at least be usefull for community projects.

Even if it's not used for writing action reports, the truly geeky among us can use the data to compare the sizes of our playing skillz.

"What? You waited that long before building the

Already, more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II or the entire combat system.

I'm sure for some gamers the EG will be the nicest bit of chrome on a game they've ever had, while others (like me, I expect) will probably use it once and never again. Maybe a poll is in order, as this seems like a trade-off: resources spent developing the EG could go elsewhere.

By far, this has been the most expensive single feature of Dark Avatar... And after 5 months of work... Already, more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II or the entire combat system.

I always knew it was going to be more complicated to pull off than it sounded at first but....I had no idea.

For a feature you will only ever see at the very end of a game it sounds to me utterly disproportionate to its cost. How much is finishing it going to detract from other features we will spend alot more time playing with? I had been thinking of it as a cool 'extra' feature when in fact its swallowing up the budget, sadly I've got to say cut it. Maybe it could be finished in a future expansion or if we're really lucky in a post-release update (not going to happen I know) but I think there are fare more important things to focus on in DA.

It's a shame but I really don't think its going to be worth 'cutting corners' elsewhere to crowbar it in.

AI uber alles!

I remember fondly reading through the data of your civ's turns at game end in CivII, if you can pull it in GCII then make them available on the Metaverse in the characters games listings it would really enhance GCII no end. It would be like opening up a whole bible of strategy tips...

Well my fingers are crossed it makes the cut   

I just finished my first game, and got to say I love it.

What made it even better was the Epic story I could read on the summary afterwards. Although it seems unfinished, which is understandable as this is a beta, I hope, I really hope this feature don't get cut. It was really fun to read the computers version of what happend.

TIP

Since you already have a skeleton system in place, what about keeping the basic skeleton (maybe polish it a bit more) and then letting players submit alternate ways of saying things, in essence, let us flesh the story out, we'll skin that sucker if you give us the bones and muscle to do it

I'm sure there would be plenty of chances to throw in that wacky humor Gal Civ has been known for with content creation and that would be pretty dang enjoyable to read. Here's another thought-

What about post Expansion pack release patching? Gal Civ 2 implemented quite a few new features post-release, so perhaps the Epic Generator could be one of those. Again, it's a massive undertaking, but if it'd free resources now that could be diverted there later if time permits, great. I still think logging would be the best option, as long as it was somewhat configurable and put out data that others could harness for story-telling/game analysis.

Glad you found the link interesting and possibly helpful. I'm more of a graphs, stats, and bulleted points guy myself, but prose certainly has its place, too, but probably not at the expense of a fun game.

Oh, and there's only ~3 months left to the release of DA and that includes holidays in there somewhere. I hope you guys get to take some time off!

The EG is something I had always wanted to see in a 4X game, and was the main reason I preordered as well... both to use and to see how well it works out.

The Stardock people could include the Epic generator for the Febuary edition in a patch.

Edit: should it be cut off

Event logging with custom appending.

Screen shot icon.

Mission accomplished. Enough said.

I hope this feature manages to be implemented, it's the only reason I wanted Dark Avatar. More flavoring, more immersion, and something to show for all the hours you put into actually conquering / losing a galaxy.

I don't find the asteroid fields or the research changes or anything else to be very compelling personally.

How do you keep the story random, that is how do you describe similar events in different ways? Or are there a few random sayings that repeat themselves over and over?

I would imagine the amount of writing for each event would take a few seconds but since it would be really dull to reread over an epic that is pretty much the same I'm curious as to how you can keep it fresh. Have you been able to get the variables down to the word level or sentence level?

At the veryt least could there be a primiteive form about it? something ala civ 4 ending?

Personally, I never really thought much about this feature...not sure if I would use it or not.

But then, I thought similiar things about the Shipbuilder...until I actually used it, and found out how fun it was.

Logging, Screenies, those would be very satisfying things for me.

I would hate for things like new events, UP resolutions, etc to be cut for the EG however...

If you can save the code and perhaps implement it in a future release, I don't really see a down side to cutting it; but do see a down side to having the work eat away at game features.

Just my .02

Please keep this feature. It is far and away the one I am most excited about. For me it means the difference between immediate purchase and waiting until the price comes down, but that's not nearly the issue for me. I want more heart and soul in my games, and the Epic Generator is just that. Make it, and make take all the time in the world to force it to be a genre standard.

I also fall into the "Epic Generator - Cut it if ya gotta!" camp. I am more interested in the core game and that means the Computer AIs. I appreciate the developer's initiative and desire to create a new and evolutionary features, but in the end (to me) it is a "side" feature not a "core" feature.

Regarding the existing logging, I've worked on systems in the past that do Event Publishing, and you could then add a "Event Logging" window that would list all possible events and the ability to enable / disable the capture of them. You could even add a space for "User Text" around the event and certain event parameters. This would allow the people who enjoy writing reports to captute the events they want, with their own text. They could take it from there.

I much prefer a dedicated "Event Logging" window that cluttering up main game windows with a Log Event button.

5months on the epic generator?!

I'd say this is the biggest screwup Stardock have done so far. 5 months of development time on something that isn't used when playing the game....unbelievable....

You must set your priorities straight and build from the ground up. If the Dark Avatar project is like adding a balcony, garage and a swimming pool to the house (GalCiv II) then you've been messing with the balcony for WAY too long which will result in a too small garange and a swimmingpool with cold water.

It's great that you're enthusiastic about your projects but you really must prioritise correctly


If looking on it from the bright side, you can remedy the damage with good support. If it was any other company (EA f.e) the house would fall apart like it was made of paper.