ThinkAloud

Join Date 04/2004

Exit Strategy - Act Two

You Still Looking?

More than two and half years ago when I wrote my first Blog about the exit strategy for the Iraqi war that everyone was looking for, I never thought that we will be still looking for the same thing today!!! And looking for it from the same man, GW BUSH !!!!!!. It is amazing to me that it took 6 years for the majority of the American People to see the idiocy of this man's policies. But at least the people finally figured him out. They may be slow but not dumb. It goes to show that it is really impossible for anyone, even these skillful decievers, to fool all the people all the time.

More amazing is that we still looking for that illusive Exit Strategy !!!!. There is none. will it take 6 more years for the experts and the people to figure that out? I hope not. Colin Powel said "you break it, you own it". It turned out that even that is not true. yes we broke it, but we cant own it. the owner doesnt want to give it away even if it is broke. So what are we trying to do there?

Bush says we cant leave it broke because it will be a haven for terrorists ...... but that is what it is now and we cant fix it.

Biden says partition it, does he really know what he is talking about? i doubt it.

If we partition it we will have three terrorist havens not one and to make matters worse, 3 more will be created: two in turkey and Iran by the Kurds and one in Saudi Arabia by the Shia.

People who dont know what they are talking about, should really shut up, or go read a book first.

Lets us just admit defeat, get out and let Iraq be Iraq. As it always was. A collection of tribal factions of all sorts looking for a strong man to govern them. Sooner or later they will find one. They did that all along their history. That is the way it was and that is the way it will be. The British knew that well and they supported Bush in this miserable adventure knowing that is the only way to get the lone Hyperpower of the world to be humble and know the limits of its power.

The French and the Germans were honest straight forward, as usual and told us what is ahead. No one can say the same about the British, they tell you what you want to hear but they dont offer honest advice. They only look for their own interests.

We should have been much smarter, but with Bush as president our chances of that was and still is nill.

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and I'll ask you the same question I've been asking for years... Which war did we ever fight with an "exit strategy"??

Prs. Bush has defined the mission and told us all what needs to happen before our troops can pull out of Iraq. that is all any president has ever done in any war. This "exit strategy" crap is nothing more than a red herring that has been trumped up to put usless pressure on Prs. Bush and Congress to end the war. It has no basis in strategy, history, logic or intelligence. It is simply a political tool for people with no apparent sense of history to use in lieu of a point.

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An Exit Strategy, in Military terms, is when your forces have lost and need to retreat before they are annihilated.

And I don't call that a victory strategy.

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Biden says partition it, does he really know what he is talking about? i doubt it.

That's the same thing former Secretary of State Jim Baker proposed, but I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Lets us just admit defeat, get out and let Iraq be Iraq. As it always was. A collection of tribal factions of all sorts looking for a strong man to govern them. Sooner or later they will find one. They did that all along their history. That is the way it was and that is the way it will be. The British knew that well and they supported Bush in this miserable adventure knowing that is the only way to get the lone Hyperpower of the world to be humble and know the limits of its power.

Ahuh...

The French and the Germans were honest straight forward, as usual and told us what is ahead. No one can say the same about the British, they tell you what you want to hear but they dont offer honest advice. They only look for their own interests

Heh, honest....that's a relative term with the french and germans. Unless I'm mistaken, their were kick backs, and all sorts of shady deals between Saddam and the french/germans.

I think someone has British envy.

f we partiotion it we will have three terrorist havens not one and to make matters worse, 3 more will be created: two in turkey and Iran by the Kurds and one in Saudi Arabia by the Shia.

Erm, how so?

From what I have read, most of the terrorism or such, has been in the shia, and shi'ite areas. The kurds have had a bit, but mostly just living life and trying to make ends meet.

Biden says partition it, does he really know what he is talking about? i doubt it.

Do you? Tell me, what gives you the status to claim so much?

Bush says we cant leave it broke because it will be a haven for terrorists ...... but that is what it is now and we cant fix it.

It may be, but it had a terrorist before we went in: Saddam Hussin. He defines a terrorist, by what he did,etc...

Terrorist

It is amazing to me that it took 6 years for the majority of the American People to see the idiocy of this man's policies. But at least the people finally figured him out. They may be slow but not dump. It goes to show that it is really impossible for anyone, even these skillful decievers, to fool all the people all the time.

I know people that didnt agree with it in the beginning. Funny, Al Quaeda has been for years.

Funny thing, you speak of stupidity, and being dumb, yet you've misspelled, and made numerous other errors in writing this piece.

Pot to kettle, come in.

Funny, i figured we've had one for a while now. 1) Finish the job 2) Leave.

Sounds good enough for me, or am i stupid?

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Glad you asked, and thanks for your comments. Here are few things that crossed my mind after i read all your comments:
1- well, i am sorry that i am not a poet. or a wizzard in langauge. However, is that what we are talking about here? my language skills????. you got my points, didnt you? that is what is important ... isn't it?
2- yes i know. and believe me more than most of the so-called Middle East Experts. That is not a great achievement or anything that i like to brag about. it is just when you study and read and think and interact with people you know them and their culture and how they think and why they do what they do. All who know the history of the Middle East know what Iraq is like. and if you read today's Op-Ed page of the NY Times (Nov. 20) u will get an idea of what i mean. Three articles by three Iraqi intellectuals confirms what i said. again, believe me, i know the middle east .... history, culture ... and all the rest.
3- Saddam Hussain was a terrorist WITH HIS PEOPLE not with anyone else. Did u ever hear that there was an iraqi involved in any terrorist act against anyone outside iraq? Hussain was a tyranic dictator and vicious man. but he was very selfish and never cared about anyone but himself. Did u know that even in the 1948 war against Israel, the iraqi division never fired a shot, not a single one. And when they asked them why didnt u open fire to defend ur positions, the answer from their central command was "we didnt have orders to do that from the king" (King Fiasal II that is, who was overthown in 1958 by the group that saddam hussain was part of). If u study Iraq's history, u will know that they never ever cared about the world around them and they never allowed any group other than their Baath party to be even mentioned, not Qaeda, not Moslem Brothehood, not even any other political or cultural organization. They were after AlQaeda. they were the enemy of our enemy but not our friends either. but they never protected or allowed any kind of terrorist activity by their own people or by others.Hussain killed anyone who made any disturbance of any kind.
4- It is true that the honesty of the French and the Germans was relative, of course. Is there anything in Politics that is not? but they said what they thought at the time. The British knew better but they didnt say. What makes me say that? well, they had their adventure there in 1920's and failed miserably. They succeeded in occupying Egypt, Jordon and Phalastine for more than 80 yrs, but they couldn't last in Iraq more than 9 or 10 yrs. they then got out after partitioning it (Kuwait was part of it before that.) They knew the falacy of the WMD's and all the rest of the scheme but they encouraged Bush and never explained the risks and the dangers. His father knew, that is why we didnt go to Baghdad in 1991 while we were 20 miles away. You think his father, Powel and Storm'n Norman were cowards or faint of heart? i dont think so. They knew the history of Iraq and what kind of danger it represents to others outside Iraq. Very little. not worth sending an armada of the hyperpower to just depose one bad man.
5-how so? here is how: do u know that the Kurds in the north are just one part of a whole area called Kurdistan? that area is now divided between Iraq (that is the northern area), Iran, Turkey and Syria. once the northern part of Iraq becomes a political entity all the other 3 will demand the same to reunite with each other and recreate Kurdistan. The same thing regarding the Shia in the south, once they get their own area the rest of them in the eastern part of Saudia Arabia will aspire to the same thing and join Iran. Now, u think all 4 countries will allow that? and the result? rebels in all of them. and isn't that what creates a haven for terrorists? I think u got the point. but i undercounted, we will create 4 more not three. three in the north and one in the south in addition to the current three. Maureen Dowd of the NY Times once wrote that they never thought of what would happen when "you take a baseball bat to a Bee Hive" .... how true ... But it is really a hornet nest not a Bee Hive. The sad thing is they still at it !!!!!
6.Finish the job and leave? and that is the Strategy? and what is that JOB? and even if we do that job, we leave after that? and u think when we leave whatever we did there is going to last? A foreign country invades a distant land, set up whatever it wants there then leaves, and whatever it leaves there is going to last !!!!! In what era of the human history did that happen? why didn't we leave Jaban or Germany or Turkey or Italy more than 60 yrs after WW II ended? you may say ok we dont leave, in this case read above. But more important and basic is what is the JOB in the first place? Remove Hussain? well, there is no more of that and no more WMD's and no more democracy possible, so what is the Job Exactly? You think a government installed by an occupier will last after we leave? dont we wish !!!!!
7-Finally, u think AlQaeda was against invading Iraq???? did u read or hear what they are saying now? that is where they wanted us. you think they forgot the invasion of Afganistan by the USSR? they learned and actually we trained them there, they knew that they cant attack towers and warships every day, but they can kill our men and women everyday if they are close to them. Sometimes you say what your enemy says but does that mean u are wrong? more often than not the Devil says the truth .... does that make him an angel? or does that make the angel a devil? it is not who is saying what, it is what is being said and what it means that counts .... isn't it?

By the way sorry again if i made spelling and other errors in writing (and i am not going to ask you to do the same for your own ....it is ok, we are not here in a language class, -

) ..... Better than making judgemental errors involving wasting our national and personal resources resulting in tragedies allover the world. One more thing, i said people may be slow but not dumb or stupid.

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3- Saddam Hussain was a terrorist WITH HIS PEOPLE not with anyone else

While this is true, he ALSO provided terrorist organizations with aid and comfort. IE: a place to hang their collective hat. Anything else you'd like to say?

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>Anything else you'd like to say?

Well, nothing more than what the administration and everyone else now admits (except you obviously): that claim is as valid as the presence of WMD"s. One side point just for your information: Alzarqawi, was there in Iraq before the invasion. That is true. but do u know where in Iraq? he was in the Northern part where we set up and protected the Kurds. Hussain had no control or access to that area since 1991. isn't that amazing !!!!!. in a way WE were the ones who aided and gave comfort to the only link between Iraq and AlQaeda. As flimsy as this link was, we did that, not Hussain. or at least the people we protected in the north did it. The funny thing is, we obviously knew that, why didnt we arrest him? I can assure you that Hussain would have not only arrested him but he would have killed him and all the people who protected him ... and their relatives too.

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Well, nothing more than what the administration and everyone else now admits (except you obviously): that claim is as valid as the presence of WMD"s.

And you're wrong on that point. Here's just one of several I found in a "very" short google search dated Jan 2006

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp

Any more bright ideas?

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>Any more bright ideas?

No, just few questions: Training camps in 1999 thru 2002???? while we have total control of the skies over Iraq? and we didnt know that till we found those documents? and the inspectors before the war missed them??? and we didnt bomb them? in the middle of the war on terror????? Amazing ..... truly amazing!!!!! i guess the Weekly Standard is still creating the same Virtual Reality that got us in this mess in the first place. The same Virtual Reality we presented to the UN about the mobile biological weapons labs?? and you buy that?

Dear Sir, if that makes you feel better about this miserable war, then it is ok. It is understandable. Sometimes the reality is soooo painful that some people try to color it to be able to accept it. Unfortunately, for me of course, i am not one of them. Hopefully the policy makers do not use the artificially colored reality as a base for their decisions. No matter what we do personally or collectively, we can not defy the reality on the ground. past or present realities. they have a way of imposing themselves on the world.

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Hmmm, all those words, yet you ignored my whole post.

It's ok, so has everyone else. After all, the only true answer admits that the whole "exit stratedy" thing is a red herring... and we can't have that now, can we.

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sorry, but i really didnt ignore what u said, i just agree with it. Technically you are correct and nothing we can do now will undo what happened. But eventually we have to find a way to get out of this mess. and that is what they call "Exit Strategy". i remeber for Nixon, it was "Peace with Honor". someone should come up with something like that so we can get out somehow.

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No, just few questions: Training camps in 1999 thru 2002???? while we have total control of the skies over Iraq?

And just "how" do you think the information was obtained? We sure didn't make it up out of thin air. And just an fyi.....It's "not" just one paper/news organization saying it. The Weekly Standard was one of many and just happened to be on the top of the list. You don't like my source? Then go look for yourself.

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ThinkAloud

The only problem with the "Peace With Honor" thing was it led to niether "peace" nor was it done with "honor".

All it did was allow the U.S. to stick our collective head in the sand while the Communists in Vietnam and Cambodia raped and murdered at will.

But anyway. As I said, Prs. Bush has made it more than clear what our goals are. He has also made it clear what needs to happen before he will pull troops out. So the questions have been answered.

Thanks for clarifying that you didn't ignore my question though.

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